ARB bush clonk issue. Newish bushes

[rum4mo]

The Laser Tools version of that tool was a bit much cash for me so I bought the Nielsen version a lot cheaper, I knew the size I needed as I had bought ne track rods.

Then I started the job of removing the original track rod from that 2002 Polo - the tool I bought was just too small, so I needed to buy the next size up! I don’t think that buying the more expensive Laser Tool would have stopped that happening as there is, I seem to remember, more than one size/range tool!

I don’t know if anything has changed over the years, but I will find out in April when I replace the track rods and TREs on my daughter’s late 2009 Ibiza.

I think that it is a good idea to buy new inner bellows clips as the original ones will get messed up a bit while you release them, for the small outer end of the bellows, I used a couple of cable wraps or tie wraps as the ECP supplied rods are slightly bigger at the waisted point where the bellows fits.

One other thing, if you are desperate to do this job, if there is slack in the inner joint, that should become obvious when you remove the taper end of the TRE from the hub carrier - ie you should be able to see if it is floppy/loose and be able to force it in and out and so hear/feel any slack on the inner joint, if not floppy/loose and no noise, reattach the TRE and look elsewhere, maybe even the other side!

[TMB]

Interestingly I've just bought a track rod remover kit myself.

 

[TMB]

I found it very difficult to get the crimping tool in for the inner clips so I used stainless steel hose clips from Halfords.

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 March, 2019 by TMB

[corndog]

I spent ages trying to find the right shape crimping tool to do the inner clamp but never found one that looked like it would get in there. if anyone else know's which ones might work please share!

 

Looks like the hose clips should work nicely at least

[TMB]

1 minute ago, corndog said:

Looks like the hose clips should work nicely at least

 

They do work very nicely 

[rum4mo]

I used a badly manufactured pair of wire cutters - both jaws were cut at the same angle.

I must confess that for doing this job for the second time I have tried to buy proper pliers. The duff wire cutters worked okay as they were used “inline” with the bellows and these bellows don’t need to be on that tight.

 

Edit:- I opened up the crimped area using a couple of flat bladed screwdrivers, so I might have been able to reuse these Oetiker clips which are size 53 which means 4? > 53mm inner diameter.

Edited 7 March, 2019 by rum4mo

[rum4mo]

25 minutes ago, corndog said:

I spent ages trying to find the right shape crimping tool to do the inner clamp but never found one that looked like it would get in there. if anyone else know's which ones might work please share!

 

Looks like the hose clips should work nicely at least

The proper pliers look like carpenter’s pincers with the cutting edges blunted, but having the choice of edge and face “cutting” style ones would help in some situations due to lack of space.

[TMB]

4 hours ago, rum4mo said:

The proper pliers look like carpenter’s pincers with the cutting edges blunted, 

 

I have a pair of those, and also these, which are really nice to use. You can also apply a specific torque to the crimp if one is specified. But again, you need the room to operate them....

 

 

Edited 8 March, 2019 by TMB

[bmbmdmb]

5 hours ago, rum4mo said:

Laser Tools version of that tool was a bit much cash for me

It was £28  for 35 to 45mm laser tool 4765 but price jumped to £53 overnight. That is correct tool or better to buy a kit with different ends?

Edited 7 March, 2019 by bmbmdmb

[bmbmdmb]

2nd that on metal hose clips as good idea. 

[bmbmdmb]

http://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/track-rod-and-knuckle-joint-removal-skoda-fabia-2003/

 

 

[rum4mo]

I like that way that while showing how this job is carried out on a certain car, they list both sizes or capacities of the rod removal tool!  Maybe they too discovered that while the ECP etc supplied replacement rods, manufactured by Lemforder can/do end up having a slightly smaller diameter at the knuckle end than the original VW Group part - but then I think that the original VW Group replacement part costs a lot more money, in my case more than the cost of buying an extra Nielson/Neilsen rod removal tool - and the Lemforder rod diameter where the outer, constant tension clip fits, is bigger so that clip can not be used with the new rod.

[rum4mo]

12 hours ago, bmbmdmb said:

It was £28  for 35 to 45mm laser tool 4765 but price jumped to £53 overnight. That is correct tool or better to buy a kit with different ends?

 

I do value Laser Tools offerings, but for me as a home DIY car fixer, spending good money on a tool that I would probably only use a couple of times was not going to happen.  From memory each of these Laser Tools rod removal tools were being sold online for around £85 back in 2013 - and that was no good to me when buying just one, the cheaper brand came in at around £35.

There are other ways to remove these rods and so other and cheaper tool designs, even from Laser Tools, but, it all depends on access to that area of the car,  the type of rod remover that you have listed and that TMB has shown, can just be used on these cars.

If I was to need to consider doing that job now from not having done it or bought tools in the past, I'd be checking out the price of one of these kits with the 3 different head capacities, I'd think that there will be some lower quality versions out there at acceptable prices, just a guess!

[rum4mo]

12 hours ago, bmbmdmb said:

http://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/track-rod-and-knuckle-joint-removal-skoda-fabia-2003/

 

 

The above link shows that the lower wishbone or TCA is in place when/while they remove the TRE, but has been removed from its inner mounting points by the time that they use the rod removal tool, while access is tight, I did manage okay on my wife's 2002 Polo - so maybe the TCA has been removed from its inner mountings to make picture taking easier. Either way, I did that job on a 2002 Polo without needing to remove anything else.

[bmbmdmb]

2 hours ago, rum4mo said:

There are other ways to remove these rods and so other 

I read that a crows foot spanner would work.

[bmbmdmb]

Is the end of the inner track rod end, towards steering rack a hex nut. 

Torque figure from most videos seems to be 65 or 70nm but don't quote me. I have workshop manual for this car. 

If I had both 28 to 35 and 35 to 45mm tools would I be covered for future use on this Fabia and other cars? Some kits have 3 or 4 head sizes.

[rum4mo]

23 minutes ago, bmbmdmb said:

I read that a crows foot spanner would work.

There is a simpler version which slips over the rod and it tightens up on the knuckle, I have never tried that type.

 

Unfortunately I have done a serious clear out of all stored used parts from my garage - except for a MK3 Fiesta strut that I can not reach yet, so I do not have the original rods, now that is annoying for two reasons, firstly I might have been able to fit the still okay one to my daughter’s late 2009 Ibiza as it sounds like she will replace that car within a couple of years, and secondly that I can not truthfully answer your question about if it has a hex at the inner end - common sense would suggest that it does.

[TMB]

Ones like this are cheap but you may need more room than there is on a Fabia, not sure....

 

 

Edited 8 March, 2019 by TMB

[bmbmdmb]

Thanks.

I'll either bag a good deal on the laser tool or buy a kit which goes over steering rod with interchangeable heads. 

I read up a bit more about kits and they start at 25mm and end at 45mm.

 

I'll report back on whether was actually the cause. Will take a few weeks.

[corndog]

32mm crows foot spanner and two extension bars worked well for me.

[Doily]

As well as a crows foot (see corndog above) I also put an open ended spanner on the flats that just appear on the end of the rack, further in from where the track rod is screwed on. The spanner was positioned so that other end of the spanner was against the chassis or subframe (can't remember which - I may have used a piece of wood also). 

The spanner ensures the counter torque, when undoing/tightening the track rod, is not transferred to the steering mechanism inside the track assembly, leading to a possible risk of damage (I think I learnt this tip from somewhere else on this forum along time ago).

[rum4mo]

3 hours ago, Doily said:

As well as a crows foot (see corndog above) I also put an open ended spanner on the flats that just appear on the end of the rack, further in from where the track rod is screwed on. The spanner was positioned so that other end of the spanner was against the chassis or subframe (can't remember which - I may have used a piece of wood also). 

The spanner ensures the counter torque, when undoing/tightening the track rod, is not transferred to the steering mechanism inside the track assembly, leading to a possible risk of damage (I think I learnt this tip from somewhere else on this forum along time ago).

Yes, so did I as I was a bit worried about sorting one issue out only to cause damage elsewhere, the guide in a link further back up this thread, conveniently ignored that!

 

Edit:- I think that after doing that once, I then bought a Laser Tools "adjustable spanner" that is just the end of the usual adjustable spanner with a 1/2" or 3/8" square drive at the side of it, so you tightened up the spanner as you held it or applied an opposite turning force to the knuckle end - for the next time I might get my wife to unscrew the knuckle using a very long breaker bar (for her convenience!) - she does not know this yet, just a bit of forward planning!

Edited 12 March, 2019 by rum4mo

[bmbmdmb]

Update:

I bought the Neilsen tools. With Brexit the stock of these tools are scarce and £ increasing. The tool that the inner tie rod goes through seems to bite the end of the dome shown in image. 

 

This image apparently will not fit vrs but is a nice pic of design.

 

The inner tie rid can only be bought with outer tie rod end including plastic gaiter. Cost over £110 from dealer for driver's side only.

Local motor store quoted £5 for plastic gaiter and less for a universal design. £15 for inner tie rod, but said 90% of sales was one brand. Mentioned one brand is TRW which is in the 10% of sales. 

I think it is a special order item. 

Q Any advice on which inner tie rod brand or size to buy? Is it worth paying for dealer part? TRW make calipers, so decent brand?

 

Thanks

 

 

[TMB]

TRW supply car makers with steering parts, so they should be decent.

[TMB]

2 hours ago, bmbmdmb said:

The tool that the inner tie rod goes through seems to bite the end of the dome shown in image. 

 

Yeah, that's how that type of tool works.