Stop/Start & Auto Hold on Superb Automatic

[IanJD]

3 hours ago, Sagalout said:

I am beginning to wonder whether there should be a stop/start switch for esoteric discussions on forums.  

Probably, especially when people ask for evidence to prove something and then deliberately ignore it if it doesn't agree with their opinions...

 

But I'm sure the mother of the girl who died due to pollution-triggered respiratory problems and is now suing the UK government wouldn't think this is an esoteric problem 😉

[Sagalout]

I didn't say the issue of pollution was esoteric; the on-going discussion is. 

You are simply trading blows over macro versus micro with the obvious outcome for both of you.

 

[Nick_H]

I use stop/start all the time. At the beginning of a journey then at the end.

 

 Very occasionally in the middle..

[digifish]

8 hours ago, IanJD said:

Stop-start doesn't help much on overall pollution, but it can help a lot (50% reduction?) on pollution levels in hotspots, as the reference I gave you showed.

 

No it does not. That's the problem here Where is the real-world data supporting this assertion?

 

All those cars will start moving at some point and you will be swamped with 95% more pollution than they would have collectively made while idling. You will breath this in.

 

The way traffic flows through congested cities means they are belching far more pollution than normal because of the stop/start motion, not the fact they are idling. Acellerating 1500 Kg of metal to 5 mph, 15 or 30 uses a lot of energy and so consumes a lot of fuel. 

 

As I have said, this is not a thought experiment, its how pollution works.

 

Go stand on the side of the road, down wind of a traffic intersection (mid queue). Smell the air during idle and when they turn green. What do you notice?

Edited 14 June, 2019 by digifish

[digifish]

7 hours ago, Sagalout said:

I didn't say the issue of pollution was esoteric; the on-going discussion is. 

You are simply trading blows over macro versus micro with the obvious outcome for both of you.

 

 

This is not micro vs macro tho. Which is the point that seems to escape everyone.

 

We are talking about keeping the floor dry, by stopping a dripping tap between showers, and then turning the tap on full blast every 60 seconds for a while. The floor is wet. 

 

I suggest you look at some models of what part of congested driving is causing the pollution

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1361920915002205

 

Also idling emissions from your 'Euro 6 Emission compliant' Skoda is not the same as the diesel bus from 1995 the council is still using. 

 

 

Edited 14 June, 2019 by digifish

[CheshireBumpkin]

Oh FFS, this thread has descended so far from the original topic and up its own @ssh0le that it really needs shutting down.

[maffyou]

I’m going to bow out to @digifish superior intellect on this one. Must be frustrating for him having to deal with us idiots. 

 

🙄

[john999boy]

[digifish]

13 hours ago, CheshireBumpkin said:

Oh FFS, this thread has descended so far from the original topic and up its own @ssh0le that it really needs shutting down.

 

Well you don't have to read it. 

[CheshireBumpkin]

11 hours ago, digifish said:

 

Well you don't have to read it. 

 

No, and I wouldn't if it was under its own topic. As it is you've hijacked one that could have been genuinely interesting before you arrived, excreting mercilessly across what could have been a useful thread for others. Get angry and obtuse somewhere more appropriate and then those of a similar nature can join you there.

[BriskodaJeff]

On 14/06/2019 at 10:25, KeteCantek said:

I do not use the hold function. I find that with it off (as default) my car still has auto hold on inclines which is what I find useful anyway. 

 

As for stop start, always disable it manually since it's annoying to me. Being a 280, fuel consumption isn't the top priority anyway. Less cycles on the starter and battery is just a bonus. 

+1 on both counts. It does beg the question though... if that is the case (car holding  on an incline with auto-hold off, as mine does) then what is the point of auto-hold? I've never really understood that one. I've also noticed that each time mine has gone in for service, when I pick it up the auto-hold has been enabled, presumably by the tech. Any idea why they do that? Just testing it?

[maffyou]

5 hours ago, BriskodaJeff said:

+1 on both counts. It does beg the question though... if that is the case (car holding  on an incline with auto-hold off, as mine does) then what is the point of auto-hold? I've never really understood that one. I've also noticed that each time mine has gone in for service, when I pick it up the auto-hold has been enabled, presumably by the tech. Any idea why they do that? Just testing it?

On an incline that’s hill hold control which is a completely different feature - it only works on slopes and only activates for a brief time, 2 seconds I think, to give you time to move from the brake to accelerator. 

 

Auto hold activates when you bring the car to a stop with the brake pedal and holds the brakes at that pressure indefinitely when you remove your foot from the pedal. It will also increase the brake pressure if the car starts to roll. When you press the accelerator it releases the break. Can’t imagine why people would want to turn it off, personally, makes it more comfortable especially in traffic. 

[Bud]

I often turn it off, by selecting the EPB, as a courtesy to others when queuing and especially when dark and wet as the dazzle from the lights remains when auto-hold is on

[maffyou]

2 hours ago, Bud said:

I often turn it off, by selecting the EPB, as a courtesy to others when queuing and especially when dark and wet as the dazzle from the lights remains when auto-hold is on

I did not realise the lights stayed lit on the Skoda’s, so that’s a very fair point. 

[Q102]

I have got into the habit of switching the stop/start off each time I start the car - will sometimes use the button to switch engine off at traffic lights etc.

Only time I've switched autohold off is when driving in snow.

 

Have to concerntrate harder now as my 718 PDK Boxster has autohold but to activate have to pess the brake quite hard to activate. Again switch stop/start off each time but will active again to use eco/coasting mode on the engine.

Also, manual gear selection on PDK is opposite to DSG - PDK is forward to down shift/pull back to upshift, DSG forward to upshift/pull back to down shift🙃 #firstworldproblems

[goath]

On 15/06/2019 at 00:03, digifish said:

 

This is not micro vs macro tho. Which is the point that seems to escape everyone.

 

We are talking about keeping the floor dry, by stopping a dripping tap between showers, and then turning the tap on full blast every 60 seconds for a while. The floor is wet. 

 

I suggest you look at some models of what part of congested driving is causing the pollution

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1361920915002205

 

Also idling emissions from your 'Euro 6 Emission compliant' Skoda is not the same as the diesel bus from 1995 the council is still using. 

 

 

You keep banging on about idling only being 5% of the emmissions  as a reason not to stop that 5%, you also say do the math (it's maths here). I have done my maths and I reckon that stoppimng 5% of the emissions will reduce the emissions by 5%, or am I missing something? Get than in the bank then work ont he other 95%, but I would never not want to take that saving. As for the dripping tap, well again I am on metered water supply and have a shower daily, I accept that uses 40 l of water, but the dripping uses another 10 l in between, plus the irritating noise. I am going to get the drip fixed to save 20% of the water use and stoip the noise. I am not trying to keep the shower tray dry.

[digifish]

49 minutes ago, goath said:

You keep banging on about idling only being 5% of the emmissions  as a reason not to stop that 5%, you also say do the math (it's maths here). I have done my maths and I reckon that stoppimng 5% of the emissions will reduce the emissions by 5%, or am I missing something? Get than in the bank then work ont he other 95%, but I would never not want to take that saving. As for the dripping tap, well again I am on metered water supply and have a shower daily, I accept that uses 40 l of water, but the dripping uses another 10 l in between, plus the irritating noise. I am going to get the drip fixed to save 20% of the water use and stoip the noise. I am not trying to keep the shower tray dry.

 

You are missing the point.

 

I am saying that Start-stop will never put a dent in this problem (improving urban air quality in any meaningful way) before electric vehicles (and probably banning ICE vehicles in cities) actually makes the real difference to air quality.

 

Start-stop on Euro 6+ compliant engines (as valid solution to urban pollution), is a fallacy. 

 

Just because you can measure a decrease in a pollutant, does not mean it is worth pursuing. It is not the solution or even a solution. 

 

There are also unintended consequences of these systems, have you thought about those at all?

 

Edited 18 June, 2019 by digifish

[Nick_H]

I suppose I'm a bad person but I dont really care. I turn Stop/Start off every time I get in the car. I intend to keep my car for 'a long time' and suspect this will substantially increase the life of starting related components as well as less wear to the motor. 

 

I have however in the past owned various large capacity V8 sports cars so I'm probably beyond redemption anyway

 

 

 

 

 

[freelunch]

@Nick_H  Believe me, even you will turn stop/start back on when you're driving in Knightsbridge/Kensington/Islington, or the traffic wardens will write you a ticket for not shutting your engine off in stopped traffic.

 

Then again, looking at your location, there's probably not much chance of that! 😁

[Baggins]

I've only read the last page of this thread but get the gist. My 2 penneth, if you are sat a while then start stop will be beneficial, however short stops will probably cause more pollution.

 

As an aside I drive a 7.5t refrigerated van round Leeds and surrounding areas. A much better way to reduce pollution IMO is to change traffic flows/lighting software to keep traffic moving (however slowly) the most polluted road in Leeds is under the train station (dark arches). It's obvious there's always 100 vehicles sat waiting at the lights..... All day. Take out the merging traffic and remove the lights.

But then we all know they will just tax people with a *congestion charge* instead. 

 

Also when I'm trying to get out of Leeds, I have to stop at 5 sets of lights in about 400 yds. /Rant.

[FatWolfie]

Ha @Baggins I know exactly where you’re coming from re Leeds. It boils my **** that they go on about the air quality, then do all they can to reduce traffic flow so you can’t get anywhere. 

 

The best way way to improve their air quality is to improve traffic flow...plus if their measuring under the Dark Arches then I’m not surprised the readings are off the scale...no air flow, heavily congested, and last time I used the train, local services were all Diesel so all that station pollution won’t be helping.

 

ive been into Leeds from Baildon 5 times in the past two weeks, setting off at about 10.30 and despite there being cycle lanes almost the whole way, saw one bike once ..(that’s not one bike in the cycle lane and the rest on the road, it’s just one bike). I hope there is better justification in rush hour for the cost of cycle lanes...

 

And rant mode off 😤 

[BriskodaJeff]

Now that's more like it. If we're going to go off topic, there's little better than traffic lights and cyclists to rant about. Well done @Baggins and @FatWolfie - others please note! .

[FatWolfie]

Could mention Brexit too to go for the full hat trick 😂 

 

point taken though 👍