Confusion over servicing requirements

[classic]

Debit card, probably 18 months ago, but it worked then.

[Alex-W]

7 hours ago, Scot5 said:

 

Servicing the car yourself is fair enough if you intend to keep it long-term but you'll be penalised if you don't have a FSH. A dealer FSH is even better.  No matter what's best for the car, that's the way the market works. And to be honest, when looking for a car, the majority of Joe Public would be looking for a full main dealer service history.

 

I think most people do look for FSH and yes, doing it yourself will devalue the car.

I don't think, beyond the warranty period people are too fussed about dealer history or not though.  I'm pretty sure two of my cars were done by 'specialists', not dealers.  

 

I probably won't soley DIY until it's a bit older.  I'll do intermediate oil changes and any additional work (brakes etc) but will get a garage to tick the box of 'service' every 2 years just to keep history there. 

 

That's essentially what I do for my wife's car too.  It's got full history, however the service costs are low as the garage never needs to do much work as I've already done it 😁

Saying that, this year they didn't listen to me and did the lot, plus rear brake pads...  I pointed out that I never asked for it so, I ended up getting a full service, oil change, MOT, new rear pads and all filters for £200.  Bargain.

I had new pads on my garage ready to go on but if the labour is free then it saves me hassle!

 

I'd rather tread the middle ground between making a car unsellable by doing everything yourself and paying a dealer a fortune to look at it and do next to nothing, yet think you're going to bed impressed because they washed it.

 

 

 

Also, seeing that 36 mins total for an oil change...

Id be interested if that is including warming the engine/oil up, lifting the car, removing the covers, draining thoroughly, putting it all back etc or whether they just suck it out the dipstick cold and leave loads of old oil behind.

I suspect I know the answer to that question mind.

 

 

Edited 2 November, 2019 by Alex-W

[pist0nbr0ke]

9 hours ago, Alex-W said:

That's essentially what I do for my wife too.  It's got full history, however the service costs are low as the garage never needs to do much work as I've already done it 😁

 

 

EFA  

[Ootohere]

@Alex-W

The way to do it is supposed to be 'suck out the at operating temperature oil',  then remove the sump plug and replace.

There is not usually loads of old oil left behind, actually with hot oil it is just a trickle if that.

If the Invoice shows a 'new sump plug and VAT charged' and the oil was sucked out and the sump plug not changed that is fraud / deception.

Those 'taking money by false pretences' need to think on that.

Like with many things that are charged for and VAT added yet not done or supplied.

Edited 2 November, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[Alex-W]

What's the point of sucking it out if you're taking the plug out anyway?  I suspect many places don't remove the plug at all.

 

My dad took his octy to a dealer for a service years ago, afterwards he looked at the oil, completely black.  He went back and complained saying they'd not changed it.

They explained they did, they just sucked it out.  Leaves some behind to turn the new oil black straight away.

Bet there was a load left in the sump.

 

He or I have done every one since then (so, probably about 15 or so) and just get it nice and hot, straight on the ramps and remove the plug.  Let it drain for 30-45 mins until nothing is coming out.

Oil stays fresh looking for ages, so must be very little left.

 

Regarding the plug, I can't say I'd really care if they changed that or not.  It's a steel plug and a copper washer.  It can be used repeatedly for years and it's worth pennies.  In 12 years and at least as many oil changes in my Honda I think I bothered with a new washer once as it came with a filter.  It's never leaked.... Well, not from the plug, anyway. 😂

 

Edited 2 November, 2019 by Alex-W

[Alex-W]

12 hours ago, Alex-W said:

 

Regarding the plug, I can't say I'd really care if they changed that or not.  It's a steel plug and a copper washer.  It can be used repeatedly for years and it's worth pennies.  In 12 years and at least as many oil changes in my Honda I think I bothered with a new washer once as it came with a filter.  It's never leaked.... Well, not from the plug, anyway. 😂

 

 

Yeah, ok, I take that back.

Just got under it to find the sump plug is plastic.  Along with the sump.  Wtf.

I didn't expect that.

 

 

Edited 3 November, 2019 by Alex-W

[edbostan]

This debacle of servicing seems to be nonsense to me. My Roomster was my first new car for 20 years. It was supplied on variable servicing and first serviced at 9400 miles and 15 months. It required an oil change and i was charged for a minor service. Last service I had was in May 2018 and it was a major service. I am now waiting for my next service and still have 151 days or 7900 miles which ever comes first. My oil is still a light brown and only 1mm down on the dipstick during 10,000 miles. An oil change is now £119, up from £99, a few month ago. A minor service costs £179 and from what I can see it is nothing more than an oil and filter change. So, is it costing me £50 for them to tell me that my brake discs and pads need replacing or my tyres are reaching the legal limits? I am in two minds just to book the car in for an oil and filter change and be done with it. My tyres are relatively new and my pads have plenty of meat on them. The other point is that we are not appreciating that oil is far superior and engine management system have moved on from days of old. The argument rumbles on but there is a disposal problem of used oil and oil experts argue that we are throwing away oil which is only half way through its operating life. This is a contentious issue. I know.

Edited 3 November, 2019 by edbostan

[skippy41]

An old showman one told me , with any engine, change the oil religiously every 10K and the engine will last , I have followed his advice over the 38 years of driving my own taxi, no matter what vehicle I have had, on my 6 th,  skoda BTW, so basically all my cars have had the oil and filter change virtually every 10 weeks

Edited 3 November, 2019 by skippy41

[Guest]

8 hours ago, skippy41 said:

An old showman one told me , with any engine, change the oil religiously every 10K and the engine will last

He couldn't have been that old as manufacturer intervals used to be every 6k miles. And when it was people still complained and said you should change it sooner.

Edited 3 November, 2019 by Guest

[skippy41]

1 hour ago, Scot5 said:

He couldn't have been that old as manufacturer intervals used to be every 6k miles. And when it was people still complained and said you should change it sooner.

This was 35 years  ago  when  general  service intervals  where around  12k

[gregoir]

I used to do my own oil changes pre VW ownership. 5000 miles iirc. Didn't stop premature wear of everything on BMC and BL cars.😔

[banksie]

The reason that oil change intervals have increased is not only due to the improvement in oil technology but also in the removal of lead from petrol.

 

The lead breaks down the properties of the oil as well as brain cells!

 

Basically it was all a scam to have lead in petrol by these three big players in the US. Standard Oil, General Motors and the DuPont Corporation. Every gallon of fuel ever sold they got a payment from it having tetraethyl in it.

 

Why did we use leaded petrol for so long? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40593353

Edited 4 November, 2019 by banksie

[banksie]

Oh and as regards the service interval stuff, Skoda UK are currently tying themselves in knots as regards the service schedule and miles to KM conversions, going against Skoda CZ service schedules and a potential Autoexpress article on service histories being invalid. Not “dieselgate” but “servicegate”!

[gregoir]

23 minutes ago, banksie said:

 

 

Basically it was all a scam to have lead in petrol by these three big players in the US. Standard Oil, General Motors and the DuPont Corporation. 

Scam? It was a significant technical development which enabled higher octane fuels and minimised pre ignition and protected against valve seat recession. Toxic and polluting yes, technically and cost effective yes.

[PetrolDave]

Just now, gregoir said:

 Toxic and polluting yes, technically and cost effective yes.

But there were other solutions such as hardened valve seats which would achieved the same result but without the toxic pollution.

 

Probably the worst possible solution, and not cost effective either if you drove a lot (because of the on-cost of the levy paid to the tetraethyllead manufacturers and patent holders).

[banksie]

6 minutes ago, gregoir said:

Scam? It was a significant technical development which enabled higher octane fuels and minimised pre ignition and protected against valve seat recession. Toxic and polluting yes, technically and cost effective yes.

Mmmh that’s the beauty of the scam! Have you read the link, it’s one of many articles, who did the research and published the results.......Standard Oil, GM and Du Pont!

 

it does exactly as you say as regards performance and its cheap, but the other alternatives that we now see being used were available back then, it’s just they were quashed by the 3 companies all of which had Congressmen/Senators on their boards with the subsequent increase in share value!

Edited 4 November, 2019 by banksie

[silver1011]

On 20/10/2019 at 11:49, Scot5 said:

In all the years I've paid an interest in cars, not once have I seen any evidence of cars on variable servicing being any less reliable than those on fixed intervals - if anyone does have the evidence then show it.

 

That's because there are way too many other variables outside of oil lubrication that denote the reliability and life expectancy of any oil lubricated components.

 

What is undeniable is that more frequent oil changes in identical like-for-like conditions will result in longer life versus extended oil changes.

 

This is why fixed service intervals make sense for certain operating conditions.

[silver1011]

On 01/11/2019 at 12:14, banksie said:

Just waiting for a call from the service manager and I’ve spoken to Skoda Uk and waiting a call back from them!

 

 

This is indeed nonsensical.

 

- Fixed service interval - 10,000 miles or 12 months, whichever is reached first. It is actually 9,320 miles which is a conversion from 15,000km.

 

- Variable service interval - upto 20,000 miles or 24 months. The car monitors journey tyres, number of cold starts, engine loads etc. and decides for itself. It is actually 18,640 miles which is a conversion from 30,000km.

 

Where the dealer has got 12,500 mile intervals from is beyond me.

 

It'll be very interesting to hear how Skoda UK attempt the explain this one. Please keep us posted.

[silver1011]

On 01/11/2019 at 12:26, Alex-W said:

To be honest, that list of servicing items looks quite short too.  Where's the coolant changes?  Brake fluid changes?  Clutch fluid changes?

 

Brake fluid changes are listed, but they've been abbreviated to 'BFC'.

 

There isn't a clutch fluid interval either as the master and slave cylinders are fed from the same reservoir as the brake fluid.

 

The cooling system is maintenance free, Skoda do not require the coolant to be changed during the life of the vehicle, only that the levels are checked and topped up if required. If the owner chooses to have the waterpump changed during the cambelt service then the coolant is often replaced at the same time.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

 

This is indeed nonsensical.

 

- Fixed service interval - 10,000 miles or 12 months, whichever is reached first. It is actually 9,320 miles which is a conversion from 15,000km.

 

- Variable service interval - upto 20,000 miles or 24 months. The car monitors journey tyres, number of cold starts, engine loads etc. and decides for itself. It is actually 18,640 miles which is a conversion from 30,000km.

 

Where the dealer has got 12,500 mile intervals from is beyond me.

 

It'll be very interesting to hear how Skoda UK attempt the explain this one. Please keep us posted.

 

The interval is 10,000 miles here in the UK because that's what the manufacturer stipulates. Whether you think it is or not is irrelevent. If you're going to convert for Skoda then you're going to have to convert for ever other manufacturer but you'll probably think they're all wrong.  And you best inform America of this too because their service intervals are also stated as 10,000 miles (whereas across the border in Canada, it's 15,000km.)  In fact if you really want to be pedantic then why not go the full way and claim Skoda haven't stipulated the statute mile - it could well be a nautical mile, or a roman mile, or...    Servicing is complicated enough for people to understand - it's so wrong to complicate it further.

 

Variable servicing - that's the first I've ever heard of that saga - what's your source of information?

 

I understood variable servicing to be very simple - a sensor monitors the condition of the oil and when it falls below given parameters then the car requests a service. I believe it's called an oil degradation sensor and it measures the viscocity of the oil ( perhaps that's over-simplistic, I'm sure I'll be corrected by someone more technically minded).  But all this measuring tyres, cold starts, loads etc?   The maximun variable service distance in the UK is 20,000 miles, as it is in the USA for VW cars.  ( source of information: SKODA / VW )

 

 

[banksie]

Eventually spoke to the service manager at my dealership and after explaining to him I’d seen the official Skoda CZ service schedule that states 60000km or 4 years, which is 37282.2 miles he said to bring the car in for spark plugs! I think I just wore him down.

 

About an hour later I have Skoda UK Technical manager ring me asking what the problem is. I explain and he says it’s 40000 miles or 2 years so the Spark plugs etc should have been done. He is confused as to why not! I explain the copy of the service schedule that I’ve seen and after a bit of head scratching he realises that what I’ve got is the Franchise service schedule that they have set up themselves! After a bit more discussion involving whether my car is being maintained in accordance with the Skoda service schedule and any warranty work he says that this matter will have to go further than his pay grade as it is becoming clear they are not! But they are I say as they are using Skoda minor and major fixed price service schedules! He goes off the phone saying he will get back to me.

 

I’m in at the dealers Thursday!

 

I’ll update further!

[classic]

6 hours ago, silver1011 said:

 

Brake fluid changes are listed, but they've been abbreviated to 'BFC'.

 

There isn't a clutch fluid interval either as the master and slave cylinders are fed from the same reservoir as the brake fluid.

 

The cooling system is maintenance free, Skoda do not require the coolant to be changed during the life of the vehicle, only that the levels are checked and topped up if required. If the owner chooses to have the waterpump changed during the cambelt service then the coolant is often replaced at the same time.

In fact there should be a clutch fluid change - the official Skoda service schedule describes bleeding a set quantity of fluid from the clutch slave cylinder, as part of the brake fluid change procedure...

 

I wonder how many dealers do that ?

[silver1011]

9 hours ago, Scot5 said:

 

The interval is 10,000 miles here in the UK because that's what the manufacturer stipulates. Whether you think it is or not is irrelevent. If you're going to convert for Skoda then you're going to have to convert for ever other manufacturer but you'll probably think they're all wrong.  And you best inform America of this too because their service intervals are also stated as 10,000 miles (whereas across the border in Canada, it's 15,000km.)  In fact if you really want to be pedantic then why not go the full way and claim Skoda haven't stipulated the statute mile - it could well be a nautical mile, or a roman mile, or...    Servicing is complicated enough for people to understand - it's so wrong to complicate it further.

 

No it isn't, the car doesn't alert the driver to the need for a service at 10,000 miles, it flags at closer to 9,000 miles. If Skoda prefer to round that number up to 10,000 miles for simplification then that is their prerogative.

 

Skoda also allow a degree of over or under run on their service intervals when implementing their warranty, so whether it is 9,320 or 10,000 isn't going to matter.

 

What does matter is that you completely missed my point, whether it is 9,320 miles or 10,000 miles, who cares, the point is it definitely isn't 12,500 miles as quoted by the Skoda retailer.

 

As for being pedantic, the time taken for you to reference nautical or roman miles demonstrates who is really being pedantic, and for the purposes of helping the OP work through the issues he is having understanding the service intervals, completely unhelpful.

 

9 hours ago, Scot5 said:

Variable servicing - that's the first I've ever heard of that saga - what's your source of information?

 

What "saga" are you referring to? What source of information do you need me to provide that demonstrates running cleaner and less degraded oil is better for lubrication than older, dirtier, more degraded and therefore less protective oil?

 

9 hours ago, Scot5 said:

I understood variable servicing to be very simple - a sensor monitors the condition of the oil and when it falls below given parameters then the car requests a service. I believe it's called an oil degradation sensor and it measures the viscocity of the oil ( perhaps that's over-simplistic, I'm sure I'll be corrected by someone more technically minded).  But all this measuring tyres, cold starts, loads etc?   The maximun variable service distance in the UK is 20,000 miles, as it is in the USA for VW cars.  ( source of information: SKODA / VW )

 

A long and lengthy internet debate, and one that will no doubt continue for many more years.

 

There isn't an oil quality sensor. Oil quality is calculated by the ECU using inputs from various other sensors.

 

The maximum variable distance in the UK is not 20,000 miles, it is 18,640 miles, irrespective of what Skoda UK decide to publish in their literature.

 

Edited 5 November, 2019 by silver1011

[Ootohere]

Reset some Service Indicators on Skoda Models in the UK and on Fixed Service and they can show 9,400 or 9,600 miles / 372 days.

 

Check the likes of DSG OIl Services on a VW, SEAT, SKODA and they might show as 40,000 miles and for s-tronics on Audis 38,000 miles.

 

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/regimes

 

Re Maximum Variable / Flexible Servicing, 

All good and well @ 18,000-18,500 miles the cars shows Oil Service required, then Skoda, SEAT, VW, Audi main dealer can not get you in for a month and the Oil-Filter change gets done at over 20,000 miles.  'Not unusual'.   FMDSH though.....

 

Edited 5 November, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[silver1011]

5 hours ago, banksie said:

Eventually spoke to the service manager at my dealership and after explaining to him I’d seen the official Skoda CZ service schedule that states 60000km or 4 years, which is 37282.2 miles he said to bring the car in for spark plugs! I think I just wore him down.

 

About an hour later I have Skoda UK Technical manager ring me asking what the problem is. I explain and he says it’s 40000 miles or 2 years so the Spark plugs etc should have been done. He is confused as to why not! I explain the copy of the service schedule that I’ve seen and after a bit of head scratching he realises that what I’ve got is the Franchise service schedule that they have set up themselves! After a bit more discussion involving whether my car is being maintained in accordance with the Skoda service schedule and any warranty work he says that this matter will have to go further than his pay grade as it is becoming clear they are not! But they are I say as they are using Skoda minor and major fixed price service schedules! He goes off the phone saying he will get back to me.

 

I’m in at the dealers Thursday!

 

I’ll update further!

 

Nice, so the Skoda retailer, employed by Skoda UK to service and maintain Skoda vehicles is in fact servicing them outside of Skoda UK's requirements?

 

It'll be interesting to see how they manage to sweep this one under the carpet. No doubt the printout was a mistake, issued in error, or a one-off