Driven into a flood... Superb dead (?)

[TransportPlanner]

Hi everyone,

 

My dad unfortunately managed to drive into a small flood last night on a single-track country lane (it's a dip just before a stream). Apparently the car died completely, including the electronics... they had to wait 2 hours for the AA to come to the rescue. 

I'm not sure of the exact water depth - my dad said "about a foot", but it was also just high enough to enter through the door if opened a bit, so sounds like it could have been more like 18"?

The AA guy said the engine compartment looked dry to him... and to my knowledge, the intake on these engines is around the front of the bonnet, so presumably water shouldn't have entered the intake at that height if he wasn't going too fast?

Any initial thoughts on whether this is likely a case of water ingestion, or instead some electronics failing when perhaps they shouldn't have?

 

To my knowledge, the car is on the driveway drying out, but I'll also update this thread when I know more...

[Ootohere]

I would have expected the AA operative to open the airbox and see if the air filter had got wet.

I would be doing that now.

[TransportPlanner]

Good point... I've suggested he do so. Apparently the AA are coming to flatbed it to the garage shortly, but if he gets to take a look beforehand, I'll report back.

[Ootohere]

?

What engine, & petrol or diesel?

[TransportPlanner]

2.0TDI 190...

[Ootohere]

Not good.  Hopefully it was just the  electrics that cause it to cut out. 

 Really surprised that the AA person never took 2 minutes to look in the Air Box.

[2wheelsgood]

DON'T attempt to turn engine over till 100% certain no water ingested!! You'll wreck the engine !!

[GAG]

Another thing to check before restarting the engine. If it cut out while still in the water and depending on the depth you might find that there will be a load of water in the exhaust system that will need to be drained out other wise it could stop the engine from running due to the combustion gasses having no way out.

[Bap33]

😳 what have you done to your dad to get punished that way?

Did he really drive there ‘unfortunately’? 
 

[irc]

Where exactly is the air intake on a 1.4Tsi Superb? 

 

My driving instructer said the correct way to go through a flood is walking speed to stop a bow wave raising the water level higher along with slipping the clutch to raise engine revs and keep the exhaust clear.  But that was more than 30 years ago. Any change?

 

Also what max depth is safe? I'm thinking bottom of front bumper. For a short distance anyway. This is with either being sure about depth from local knowledge or having watched other cars go through first.

[TransportPlanner]

Thanks for the comments all. Thankfully I don't think that any further attempt to restart the car was made...

The car got taken into the stealership yesterday, so I should hopefully be able to update you with the outcome by the end of today.

 

irc, there's a good thread on the MKII forums I think about this. I understand the previous owner's manual stated the water should not come up higher than the bottom of the sills, and there seemed to be general agreement that this is good advice, because there are also other things you don't want to submerge, like the cam belt, clutch housing, and electronics modules...

[irc]

5 minutes ago, TransportPlanner said:

Thanks for the comments all. Thankfully I don't think that any further attempt to restart the car was made...

The car got taken into the stealership yesterday, so I should hopefully be able to update you with the outcome by the end of today.

 

irc, there's a good thread on the MKII forums I think about this. I understand the previous owner's manual stated the water should not come up higher than the bottom of the sills, and there seemed to be general agreement that this is good advice, because there are also other things you don't want to submerge, like the cam belt, clutch housing, and electronics modules...

 Thanks.  For anyone else - the M2 thread is at 

 

 

[TransportPlanner]

So... Not good news for our Superb. They confirmed hydraulic lock of the engine. They'll remove the injectors tomorrow to assess whether any damage will be economically viable to repair but... it might be a case of a 4-ish year old high spec Superb being written off by the insurer 😣

 

On the plus side... Maybe an opportunity for a slight upgrade to a 17/67-plate L&K? 🤔 And the 2.0 TSI 220? 😁

[GAG]

You might be able to claim your car insurance for the damage if you have fully comprehensive insurance which has flood damage included however it will depend on how the Insurer assess the damage was caused.

 

They assess flood damage as being either "Avoidable" or Unavoidable".

 

Unavoidable would be for instance your car being parked over night and a flood happening over which you had no control.

 

Avoidable would be for example driving deliberately into a large body of water. This could be considered as reckless and avoidable. If you were able to prove that your father was in no position to either know about the flood and/or could not avoid driving into it you may be successful in claiming.

  

 

 

[J.R.]

My recent experience of driving through floodwater was with my Octavia, not a Superb but having looked under the bonnet of my Yeti the set up is identical so I think they may all be a common design.

 

Before wading I opened the bonnet and removed the top cover of the container in the intake duscting that sits just behind the radiator slam panel, I knew that a diesel could aspirate water through a large static head and had thought that the actual air intake was very low down, my logic was that by removing this cover the engine would breath air through there and not suck up any water if the intake did find itself submerged.

 

All went well and when I refitted the cover I looked in detail at the whole intake system, firstly the intake was nowhere near as low as I thought it might be, perhaps they have learned from other diesels hydrauilically locking, usually they are low to get the coldest most dense air, it was high enough for it not to be a problem unless the water would be at least a foor above the door sills.

 

Secondly this "container" as I described it behind the slam panel, it seemed that its sole purpose was to prevent flood water being ingested, I cant recall the detail but it allowed a secondary intake air path if the primary were full of water, it would also allow any water brought in with the air in normal use, following trucks on a wet motorway for instance, to drain out of the intake ducting.

 

If the Superb has the same arrangement then it must have gone through some very deep water and/or created a large bow wave, I would expect there to be water ingress into the cabin.

[J.R.]

Actually on a 4 cylinder engine its possible for flood water to enter the cylinders during the valve overlap of the intake stroke, I would have thought that the catastrophic convertor would provide enough resistance to prevent this.

 

I once hit a very large flood at high speed in my Triumph Stag, blinded by the spray, deafened by the noise of the water crashing down on the roof and bonnet I had a feeling of seasickness as the vehicle drifted afloat, all the floorpan blanking plates were unseated (pop rivets sheared) and the cabin filled up to the level of the seats with all my cassettes that had been thrown forward floating around my feet, the water was up to my waist 😞

 

Then I heard a strange muted burbling noise like an outboard engine but one with 8 cylinders 😀

 

My pride & joy was still running thanks to the viscous coupling on the radiator fan stalling hence no water being thrown around, the 8 cylinders prevented water getting to the cylinders up the exhaust and once I worked out where the road was likely to be under the lake I was able to drive out and away.

 

A good lesson learned hence my prudence during the recent flooding in the UK on the day I arrived last November or December, I saw a lot of abandoned vehicles later on in parts where the water was nowhere near as deep, I think they must have driven too fast, saw loads of vehicles with front and especially rear bumper panels hanging off.

 

there must be a lof of flood damaged salvage vehicles available at present.

Edited 20 February, 2020 by J.R.

[Penpusher]

My next door neighbour drove into flood water before Christmas in their 54 plate Ford Focus and the engine cut out.  They had it taken to the garage and they've fitted a new engine as the old one was too badly damaged to repair, which they've paid for themselves and haven't made an insurance claim.  They only got the car back last week, so I'd have thought it was cheaper to scrap the old car and replace it straight away rather than be without transport for nearly 2 months and pay repairs that are probably more than the car's worth.

[TransportPlanner]

Thanks for all the replies... 

The good news is that it's insured through the AA, by Covea insurance (comprehensive). Their policy, here, does not make mention of floods (even though, bizarrely, it excludes things like damage from sonic booms). Apparently they will replace the car if the repair cost exceeds 55% of the value of the car (probably c.£15k), so about £8,000. I'll post another update when I hear more...

 

J.R., that's an interesting point you make about the intake design... I would have thought that the Superb is similar? Either way, I'm still a bit surprised that it entered the intake if the water was only 12-18"; I don't imagine he would have driven into it that fast, even if it was just a short distance of water.

 

Penpusher - agreed! Unless they know the guy at the garage and got free labour and an engine from a parts car, I can't see how that would have made sense... another similar Focus could have been had for a couple thousand £ I'm sure...

Edited 20 February, 2020 by TransportPlanner
URL link

[IJWS15]

The recommendation I saw was water no deeper than the tyres.  

[Brockysuperb]

Door sills...its in the manual. Page 133, picture Fig 155.

[facet edge]

I can understand that you may be able to claim if the car was flooded when parked but if the engine has hydraulic lock that means that it has been driven into the water.

I've never known insurance companies pay out of they can avoid it.

[GAG]

Which is why I said:-

 

"Avoidable would be for example driving deliberately into a large body of water. This could be considered as reckless and avoidable. If you were able to prove that your father was in no position to either know about the flood and/or could not avoid driving into it you may be successful in claiming".

[Ootohere]

A representative of Insurers was on Radio Scotland yesterday and was giving advice on insurance.

A caller said that you invalidated your insurance driving into and through water on the road, and that he would delight in informing on drivers that did drive into flood water.

The 'expert' said that he knew of no such exemption in Car Insurance cover.

 

So best anyone reads 'their' insurance policies T&C's and exemptions.    Plenty drive through big puddles and cross fords on the public

highway.

 

I see people drive through here at higher levels and who likely have no idea where their air intake is.

Edited 21 February, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[Delberthot]

I had to use a back road on Friday night and had to negotiate a couple of deep puddles. The last of which was deeper than I thought and came up to the the level of the door handles so just a bit higher than recommended. 🤔

 

The car went through it no problem at all, although I wouldn't like to repeat this as it was, quite frankly, terrifying when I realised how deep the water was and couldn't go back at that point. No water ingress into the cabin. The only thing I noticed was that the oil temperature dropped when I went through the puddle but slowly rose again once I was moving at normal speed.

[Ootohere]

I have done River Crossings and waded over the years in 4x4's and recovered people but in prepared vehicles, snorkel, raised exhaust and axle breathers etc.

The news at the weekend showed some total nutters in cars around Renfrew / Paisley.

In vehicles lower than this bampot was in.