TDI Reliability Euro5 vs Euro6

[JohnK89]

Looking for advice before pulling the triger. I am in the process of buying a used Octavia mkiii TDi (1.6 or 2.0 not yet decided) for commuting 33k km/yr (all of them on highway). The Octavia models that fit my budget will be either euro5 (2014-2015) models or early Euro6 (2016) models with approx. 110k kms on the clock. I would like to keep the car for 5 yrs and reaching close to 300k kms without any major repairs.  However, internet if full of reporting issues about problems of EGR/DPF for the 1.6/2.0 TDI engines; especially for Euro6 engines. Some users claim that Euro5 models are more reliable and get better MPG due to less DPF regens. Any thoughts?

 

[SuperbTWM]

I have owned both the older 2.0140 Euro 5 and the 150 Euro 6. From a drive-ability POV, the 150 engine is far far better than the 140, feels a lot more powerful and the Passat I have now is a heavier car.

 

reliability wise I wouldn't really want a Euro 5 after the emissions scandal and update, and I would avoid the 1.6 TDI like the plague, these seem to suffer a lot more with injector issues and I don't think the overall gains from economy are worth it at all.

 

The Euro 6 engine does have Adblue on a lot of models which is something else to go wrong but EGR issues seem to be less common (at least on this forum), probably due to the fact that you don't need as much EGR if you reducing NOX with Adblue?

[MarkyG82]

Also adding to the 1.6/2.0 debate, the smaller engine is much under powered and requires more work to make the same progress. At cruising speed the 2.0 uses very little fuel so I wouldn't go for the 1.6 purely on economy.

[logiclee]

On 09/04/2020 at 18:24, SuperbTWM said:

 

 

reliability wise I wouldn't really want a Euro 5 after the emissions scandal and update,

 

The Euro 5 engines in the Mk3 Octavia are not implicated in the emissions scandal. They are a later generation of engine. 

 

And the 2.0's are 150PS

Edited 11 April, 2020 by logiclee

[Rodge]

Something else to consider is that Euro 5 engines might not be allowed in Ultra Low Emissions Zones in many cities. Also the infotainment system was upgraded in MY16 cars (built from end of May 2015).
None of the pre-facelift Octavias need Diesel Emissions Fluid (adblue). I'm not sure if that changed with the introduction of the new WLTP fuel consumption test in 2019.

[OldBoyScout]

Euro 6 cars are from September 2015 onwards. The early ones like mine do not have Adblue. Euro 6, unlike 5, is compatible with the London ULEZ (Ultra Low Emission Zone), if that is likely to affect you, and other cities may follow London's lead. On reliability I think it's unlikely that regens will be fewer in Euro 5 than 6, as they are triggered when a certain level of soot is reached, and I don't see why that would be different. Like others on here I would go for 2.0 rather than 1.6. Better to have a bigger engine that doesn't need to work so hard.

 

I see Rodge has just posted similar.

 

[JohnK89]

Thank you all for your replies.

My concerns for Euro6 EGR/DPF reliability come from this paragraph -> "HOW WILL THE EMISSIONS FIX AFFECT MY DPF?"  https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/dieselgate/dieselgate-how-the-emissions-fix-will-affect-your-dpf-diesel-particulate-filter-in-your-vw-audi-skoda-seat

 

"In a letter from the UK’s DfT (Department for Transport) Duncan Kay (Head of Vehicle Environment Team) it was confirmed in writing that the “fix” offered to VAG owners “causes about twice” the level of carcinogenic diesel particulate matter to be produced during the combustion process. 

This confirms what many owners have experienced, noting that their engines fans are staying on after the car has been parked with increased frequency. These fans are running due to the vehicle performing a DPF regeneration, attempting to “burn off” the extra soot within the filter. This process would usually happen during normal driving conditions without the knowledge of the driver, however with the increases soot loading it’s proving to be much more noticeable with the regeneration failing to complete before the vehicle has stopped.

Whats not often mentioned is the Ash buildup which will ultimately be the death of your DPF. Unlike the soot particulates which are burnt off during a regeneration, Ash will build up within the filter until it blocks completely. A DPF regeneration is not capable of burning off the Ash buildup in the DPF, literally meaning a DPF regeneration will NEVER completely clear the filter of all exhaust matter.

With twice the amount of diesel particulate matter being produced after the emissions fix, its expected that this will directly impact the lifespan of the filter by the same amount. It’s widely accepted that a DPF should last about 70,000 to 85,000 files (before the fix). The negative effect of emissions “fix” on the DPF filter should see its lifespan cut in half."

[Guest]

On 09/04/2020 at 09:02, JohnK89 said:

I would like to keep the car for 5 yrs and reaching close to 300k kms without any major repairs.  However, internet if full of reporting issues about problems of EGR/DPF for the 1.6/2.0 TDI engines; especially for Euro6 engines. Some users claim that Euro5 models are more reliable and get better MPG due to less DPF regens. Any thoughts?

 

 

I'm I reading this correctly? Expecting to cover 190k km in 5 years in a vehicle without expecting any major problems is a big ask, but to then say you want a car that has already covered 110k km over which you do not know the driver(s) or how it's been previously driven, and still expect any major problems.

 

What 's the 'major' problem you're trying to avoid? You talk about the DPF above. Is you're expectation for the car to cover 300k km on the original DPF?

[logiclee]

On 11/04/2020 at 11:26, JohnK89 said:

Thank you all for your replies.

My concerns for Euro6 EGR/DPF reliability come from this paragraph -> "HOW WILL THE EMISSIONS FIX AFFECT MY DPF?"  https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/dieselgate/dieselgate-how-the-emissions-fix-will-affect-your-dpf-diesel-particulate-filter-in-your-vw-audi-skoda-seat

 

"In a letter from the UK’s DfT (Department for Transport) Duncan Kay (Head of Vehicle Environment Team) it was confirmed in writing that the “fix” offered to VAG owners “causes about twice” the level of carcinogenic diesel particulate matter to be produced during the combustion process. 

This confirms what many owners have experienced, noting that their engines fans are staying on after the car has been parked with increased frequency. These fans are running due to the vehicle performing a DPF regeneration, attempting to “burn off” the extra soot within the filter. This process would usually happen during normal driving conditions without the knowledge of the driver, however with the increases soot loading it’s proving to be much more noticeable with the regeneration failing to complete before the vehicle has stopped.

Whats not often mentioned is the Ash buildup which will ultimately be the death of your DPF. Unlike the soot particulates which are burnt off during a regeneration, Ash will build up within the filter until it blocks completely. A DPF regeneration is not capable of burning off the Ash buildup in the DPF, literally meaning a DPF regeneration will NEVER completely clear the filter of all exhaust matter.

With twice the amount of diesel particulate matter being produced after the emissions fix, its expected that this will directly impact the lifespan of the filter by the same amount. It’s widely accepted that a DPF should last about 70,000 to 85,000 files (before the fix). The negative effect of emissions “fix” on the DPF filter should see its lifespan cut in half."

 

 

"The fix" was for the generation of diesels fitted to the Mk2 Octavia not the Mk3

[varaderoguy]

I know a person in our next village who has a 2011 MK2 Octavia 1.6TDI.  Previously they were getting 60 or 70mpg, since the recall, they are now only getting 40mpg....same driving style.  The owner says that the car runs in a lumpy manner since the Dieselgate fix was applied to their car. 

 

I would therefore purchase a EURO5 engined car.  There are two different types of EURO6 - with or without Ad-Blue.  Although it isn't a golden rule, typically all EURO6 engines between 2016-mid 2018 were produced without AD-Blue; anything later to current date in a diesel is now with Ad-Blue.  I have it on my Octy Scout TDI184 - and other than filling up 10 litres every 6000 miles, it isn't any different in performance between that and non-Ad-Blue variants.  In all fairness, it all depends on the kind of journies you are doing.  If you are doing hyper-miles, then try and find a TDI184 engine (cos they are just nicer and smoother to drive - and will give similar MPG to the TDI150's).

 

I had a VRS TDI-184 manual last year - and it was a sweat spot....great engine, lots of grunt....no Ad-Blue and returned 55mpg!

 

The other sweat-spot is a TDI-150 engine - on an SE spec....around a 2016/7 build - as they only cost £20 to tax (because they are below 121g/km of CO2)

 

 

Edited 13 April, 2020 by varaderoguy

[TDIum]

What he said ^

You may well get issues with EGR/DPF on any diesel at high miles. Up until that point, job's a good 'un. 

[mickboxster2700]

On 13/04/2020 at 12:19, varaderoguy said:

I know a person in our next village who has a 2011 MK2 Octavia 1.6TDI.  Previously they were getting 60 or 70mpg, since the recall, they are now only getting 40mpg....same driving style.  The owner says that the car runs in a lumpy manner since the Dieselgate fix was applied to their car. 

 

I would therefore purchase a EURO5 engined car.  There are two different types of EURO6 - with or without Ad-Blue.  Although it isn't a golden rule, typically all EURO6 engines between 2016-mid 2018 were produced without AD-Blue; anything later to current date in a diesel is now with Ad-Blue.  I have it on my Octy Scout TDI184 - and other than filling up 10 litres every 6000 miles, it isn't any different in performance between that and non-Ad-Blue variants.  In all fairness, it all depends on the kind of journies you are doing.  If you are doing hyper-miles, then try and find a TDI184 engine (cos they are just nicer and smoother to drive - and will give similar MPG to the TDI150's).

 

I had a VRS TDI-184 manual last year - and it was a sweat spot....great engine, lots of grunt....no Ad-Blue and returned 55mpg!

 

The other sweat-spot is a TDI-150 engine - on an SE spec....around a 2016/7 build - as they only cost £20 to tax (because they are below 121g/km of CO2)

 

 

i have a 13 plate elegance 2.0 150 diesel no ad blue,£20 a year tax,does 55mpg easily mega miles and runs like clockwork.

[varaderoguy]

Excellent. I didn't state an earlier year as the road tax rules keep on changing and I thought that the lower tax rates weren't applicable before 2014. Rock on!

[Greenliner1]

As said previously, seems to be that most if not all ULEZ zones are only free for Euro 6, this may not be of concern to you, but may affect the purchase price now or sale price later when you get rid of it.

 

I live near Birmingham and they’ve delayed implementing this a couple of times, but it’s on its way though. A lot of upset people with euro 5 diesels that are not that old facing expensive ULEZ charges or changing vehicle.

[junior10]

I've owned a 2017 1.6 diesel.. since brand new .. its now got 227k miles.. full skoda service history.. never had a problem.. no dpf issues the engine is just bloody brilliant 

[Ootohere]

^^^ 

That is what diesels are all about, covering the miles and using less fuel.

Not sitting about and then doing lots of short cold start journeys & not getting good fuel economy or low servicing costs or reliability.

VW had to cheat with defeat devices with Euro 5 1.6 TSI's and then with Euro 6 eventually go SCR (AdBlue) with them. 

[EnterName]

On 15/04/2020 at 22:05, Greenliner1 said:

As said previously, seems to be that most if not all ULEZ zones are only free for Euro 6, this may not be of concern to you, but may affect the purchase price now or sale price later when you get rid of it.

 

I live near Birmingham and they’ve delayed implementing this a couple of times, but it’s on its way though. A lot of upset people with euro 5 diesels that are not that old facing expensive ULEZ charges or changing vehicle.

This is one of the nudge factors that encouraged me to drop my old Mondeo and switch to petrol.

[Greenliner1]

@EnterName Yes I’ve had a couple of  Mondeos in my time too, they were good motors (estate was massive)

ULEZ is only of concern if you are going through the city centre, if not then not an issue or you can pay if infrequent use. I don’t think it’s been the environmental panacea they say, and all it’ll do is move emissions to the inner ring road (this bypasses the Birmingham ULEZ) for the people that live next to it to breathe in (while paying to use older cars of course)

 

My Diesel VRS was a good motor but used to drink oil, also being Euro 5 would have been too inconvenient for me with Birmingham’s ULEZ as I’m in the city centre quite frequently.

 

I’ve gone petrol too and the mpg is nowhere as near as good though I do enjoy the quieter cabin but miss the low down torque, strange though how the diesel prices have stayed so much higher than petrol, takes the sting out of it slightly. I guess electric is on the cards in the future but doesn’t make financial sense for me at the moment and doing lots of miles I keep reading about the infrastructure / charging horror stories a but that’s a different topic!

 

[SkodaAmbo]

London ULEZ plan will be copied by every City in England.

 

That is something you need to consider when buying a Euro 5 diesel.

 

As long as the price reflects the fact you might have to pay £12:50 a day to go anywhere near a City you are all good.

 

Not everybody goes anywhere near a City.

 

I am about to sell our 2013 (facelift) Octavia Diesel Estate, it’s a good car and has been 100% reliable and has only done 120k odd

 

Had a hard life as an NHS RRV and has the updated rear suspension, which was a rare option, you can spot it because it’s painted blue.

 

It will be a bargain for somebody, will be putting it up on here and eBay with a fresh MOT, might need some brakes for the MOT as it has hardly been used for last couple of years as work is inside the initial ULEZ expansion, so it was replaced with an Astra Estate 1.4T Auto.

[EnterName]

2 hours ago, Greenliner1 said:

@EnterName Yes I’ve had a couple of  Mondeos in my time too, they were good motors (estate was massive)

ULEZ is only of concern if you are going through the city centre, if not then not an issue or you can pay if infrequent use. I don’t think it’s been the environmental panacea they say, and all it’ll do is move emissions to the inner ring road (this bypasses the Birmingham ULEZ) for the people that live next to it to breathe in (while paying to use older cars of course)

 

My Diesel VRS was a good motor but used to drink oil, also being Euro 5 would have been too inconvenient for me with Birmingham’s ULEZ as I’m in the city centre quite frequently.

 

I’ve gone petrol too and the mpg is nowhere as near as good though I do enjoy the quieter cabin but miss the low down torque, strange though how the diesel prices have stayed so much higher than petrol, takes the sting out of it slightly. I guess electric is on the cards in the future but doesn’t make financial sense for me at the moment and doing lots of miles I keep reading about the infrastructure / charging horror stories a but that’s a different topic!

 

My MPG isn't far off what I was getting with my 2.2 TDCI Mondeo. About 44.5, long term.

On a run, it's normal for me to get over 50mpg, even after the remap to ~230ps.