Shame about the engines/gearbox

[edbostan]

So interesting. I want one. 

[Dr_Pepper]

I'm 100% with you on the gearbox I dont care how good DSG is I dont want one and won't drive one. But thats not why I posted

 

I moved away from skoda after having a string of them, mainly because of the horrid double lights on the mk3 i know some love them but not me. I bought a Leon Cupra Estate, one of the last they made with Manual.

 

So, I was pleased to hear from autocar that the mk4 octavia estate VRS will have a manual option! If so, I'll be buying one - can this really be true? I'd just assumed they would all be auto. Can anyone confirm this and know when they're available? Cheers.

[Octy0GG]

9 hours ago, Dr_Pepper said:

So, I was pleased to hear from autocar that the mk4 octavia estate VRS will have a manual option!

Fingers crossed

[AFCBNUT]

Hi All,

 

New to the forum and Skoda.

 

I have an Octavia 1.5 TSI (New edition, 2020). I’ve had the car for nearly a month and seem to have problems changing gear without crunching, especially from 3rd to 4th. I put this down to the fact there’s only 3000 miles on the clock and maybe the gearbox is running in. The strange thing though is that when I bought this car I test drove another Octavia 1.5 TSI and experienced similar issues. Seems better when the car is warmed up.

 

I bought the car on the basis that I thought it was just me.

 

I would appreciate peoples views.

 

 Thanks, Chris.

[inspectorman]

Yes - 3 to 4 and occasionally reverse for the first 2K were stickier than optimal. Just remember to be positive with the clutch depression but get back to the dealer if it persists. Now at 10K I can't remember the last time I felt any resistance on a change.

[AFCBNUT]

Thanks, inspectorman.

 

I was a bit concerned seeing some of the posts commentating that this seemed to be specific to the 1.5 engine. Wasn't really sure how this related to a software issue , but will do as you say and take it back if this persists. 

[MiniNinjaRob]

It’s not just manual boxes that are on their way out, it’s gearboxes full stop. Electric cars don’t need them. 
 

Love how people are complaining about the DSG box - how many people on here who only want a manual can do proper heel and toe clutchless shifting? Like my dad does - an ex rally driver. If you don’t do it or can’t then there’s no “extra control” with a manual box. And unless you are proper thrashing a car round the bends there’s no advantage to that any more - it’s not as if engine braking is needed that much nowadays with the brakes we have now. 

[nickcoll]

11 hours ago, MiniNinjaRob said:

Love how people are complaining about the DSG box - how many people on here who only want a manual can do proper heel and toe clutchless shifting? Like my dad does - an ex rally driver. If you don’t do it or can’t then there’s no “extra control” with a manual box. And unless you are proper thrashing a car round the bends there’s no advantage to that any more - it’s not as if engine braking is needed that much nowadays with the brakes we have now. 

 

Sorry to disagree, but you don't need to heel and toe to get more control out of a manual gearbox. There's all sorts of ways in which a manual gearbox is better even without heeling and toeing.

 

For example, when turning into a side road you can precisely time when you lift the clutch to apply drive to the wheels, so you can change gear just before you turn and then accelerate away exactly when you want to. An automatic gearbox does not know that you are turning a sharp corner so there is no ability to control this. In theory you should be able to manually drop down a gear using the paddles but still there is no ability to time when drive is applied. It is just not as smooth.

 

Another example is when accelerating away from stationary (maybe to join a roundabout). With a manual car you select the gear then lift the clutch when you want to go. It is instantaneous. With a DSG it takes its time before going, and the degree of acceleration is very hard to anticipate because you have to push the accelerator hard enough to get it going (no clutch to control this) but if you push just a little bit too hard the gearbox drops a gear and all hell breaks loose! There is just not the subtlety of control you get with a manual gearbox.

 

One big issue is that you never really know exactly which gear the car is in if you are in Drive as there is no indication. Let's say there is a corner that I know is best taken in 3 and I am approaching it in Drive. I press the left hand paddle to drop a gear but the gearbox was in 6. It drops down to 5 which I only know by looking at the display. If I then try to drop to 3 by pressing the LH paddle twice it is a down-shift within the odd gearbox and therefore takes at least a second to happen, which is quite a long time and impossible to anticipate the timing when you are going round a corner. In a manual gearbox I know the car is in 6 and then I can block-shift to 3, applying the drive exactly when I want to by lifting the clutch. I do this all the time when driving but it is so difficult to do well with a DSG.

 

I think a big issue when people compare a DSG (or any automatic gearbox) to a manual is that they compare how long it takes to change gear. In my view this is just not the point. The reality is that with a manual gearbox you are totally and absolutely in control of the point at which drive is applied to the wheels by control of the clutch. With a DSG it is a very moveable feast.

 

Furthermore with a manual gearbox you know exactly which gear the car is in at all times because you put it into that gear, and you have the gearstick to remind you as well. With an automatic gearbox you either do not know which gear it is in, or have to look at the display to know (if it is in Manual or Sport mode).

 

Finally in a similar vein when you are accelerating you never know exactly when the gearbox will change gear just because you have pressed the accelerator that little bit harder. Some of the time this does not matter, but when you want to drive with finesse it makes it very hard to do so.

 

I could go on and on about the shortcomings for me of an automatic gearbox, but suffice it to say that I just do not find it possible to control the car as well with one when compared to a manual gearbox. The only time it is somewhat better is in traffic when you can just sit there and only have to press the accelerator. But for me that is not enough of an advantage to overcome the shortcomings.

[Ootohere]

Usually those that are not regular DSG drivers are the ones that find issues about which gear they are in or not.    Decelerating then if you want

Just stick back from D to S and off the accelerator has it down 2 gears. That is for corners, junctions etc, winter roads and no brakes used.    Real world in UK you are on 60 mph max limit roads or 70 mph    A DSG is an automated manual and you just use manual down and up shifts if you want.  Use the gearshifter if you think there is a delay with paddles.   Mild plug in hybrids and EV,s are now able to know when corners and junctions are coming up as Bentley's have had for a good few years now.  Cylinder deactivation etc all part of what is available with cameras, radar and GPS on vehicles.      Ps,. Petrol or diesels from 70ps to 245 and 1.0-2.0 then 7 speed dry or 6/7 speed wet DSG,s over the past 12 years or more can not all be summed up as behaving the same. Now with mild and plug ins the DSG,s are different again. 

Edited 23 February, 2022 by roottoot

[AFCBNUT]

As far as my specific situation,  I have never had a problem with any other car on this issue.  We bought my Wife's Volkswagen Up from new and gear changing wasn't a problem . She has also experienced problems,  so dont think it's my driving style. Might go back to dealer and get a technician to drive it to see if they identify a problem. 

[Ootohere]

VW cocked up boxes in Up!MiiCitigo manual and ASG,s.  But that is really the problem you can get with VW group.   Just as well the Electric ones are so nice with 2 pedals.  Just a pity they discontinued the Citigo iV in the UK.  They messed up charging with them though just to take the guild off lily. 

Edited 23 February, 2022 by roottoot

[AFCBNUT]

I had an old Audi A4 Avant with 150000 on the clock with no gearbox issues, although everything else was going wrong with it!! Like I say the Wife's Volkswagen Up is absolutely fine, just a bit unlucky on this one.

[Zedboy]

Interesting difference in views ref; DSG Vs Man... I have had auto BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Volvo for 20 years.... hopped into my brand new vRS manual wagon in December and couldn’t be happier.... it’s just miles more fun! So glad I chose it while I could 

[AviationNut]

On 06/07/2020 at 12:44, shyVRS245 said:

However the clutch went on my manual 11,000 mile

Any idea what the fault was with the clutch at only 11K?. Was this a random 'One Off' issue?

[AFCBNUT]

I went back to the dealer about my gearbox issues and went on a drive with the technician there.  He drove it and agreed there was a problem.  Its booked in for further investigation.  Will keep you posted. 

[jjm_vrs]

I've got a manual vrs and am on my second clutch and looks like that one has just died. First one got replaced in December after getting temp warnings and errors around 6000 miles. Skoda wouldn't cover under the warranty so had to pay for the replacement. Day after I got it back the electronic parking brake and hold assist wouldn't release so it went back in. Issue was a faulty ABS control unit which they said also caused the clutch issue apparently, so I got the cost of the clutch refunded. Last week the epb and hold assist issue reoccurred followed by a clutch issue where I can hardly put it into gear and a 'loose' feeling on the pedal. Can't get it into the dealer for another 2 weeks, so Skoda assist are coming out tomorrow. Fed up with this car now and all the software issues and mechanical problems, think I'll be giving Skoda finance a call to hand it back. 

[matrix2020]

I wonder if its the same clutch that VW used in the Golf R (2018) it wasn't capable of taking the power (Torque) of the R so the R manual had its torque limited due to the clutch. It was pretty routine to hear of manual Golf R drivers needing clutch replacements really early and then going for 'upgrades' themselves as it was sooo bad.  DSG had no issues at all with the power, another reason I went DSG when I did and never looked back. 

[jjm_vrs]

So Skoda assist came out today and couldn't fix it so it has been recovered and now at the dealers. No idea when it will be fixed as it was originally booked in on 23rd. Getting a hire car from Enterprise tomorrow, an Audi S4! 

[matrix2020]

Not all bad then!! 

[AFCBNUT]

Dealer says gearbox needs replacing, fortunately as I've only had the car 5 weeks its covered on the warranty. Bit disappointing for a car that's only done 3K miles. A design flaw on this first edition Octavia,  or just unlucky??

[jjm_vrs]

I got my car back yesterday and the clutch, flywheel and hydraulics have been replaced. Hopefully clutch no3 lasts longer than the previous 2. 

[zetzet]

12 hours ago, AFCBNUT said:

Dealer says gearbox needs replacing, fortunately as I've only had the car 5 weeks its covered on the warranty. Bit disappointing for a car that's only done 3K miles. A design flaw on this first edition Octavia,  or just unlucky??

DSG gearboxes (like all automatics these days) are just very complex. They just replace them for even minor failures, because taking it off and properly refurbishing is not a job dealers can do. It's easier to swap your gearbox for a new one and send the broken one to a third party who specializes in refurbishing them. You have to realize that they make millions of these gearboxes, some faults are just going to happen.

[MiniNinjaRob]

9 minutes ago, zetzet said:

DSG gearboxes (like all automatics these days) are just very complex. They just replace them for even minor failures, because taking it off and properly refurbishing is not a job dealers can do. It's easier to swap your gearbox for a new one and send the broken one to a third party who specializes in refurbishing them. You have to realize that they make millions of these gearboxes, some faults are just going to happen.

Agreed. 
I had an Astra which started to get a slight whine in the 6sp manual box a few k from new. Just replaced with a new one under warranty at the dealers. Not everything works perfectly all the time from brand new. 
 

I don’t know how you could possibly think an unseen part of your car has a design flaw when yours breaks. It’s just broken, that’s all. 

[Ootohere]

@zetzet

That is plainly not correct as there are plenty that get a replacement MCU when needed and do not get a new DSG be those wet or dry clutch ones. 

 

(VW have their own refurbish plant in Germany for DSG's and engines. It is where some engines and DSG's are mated.

There are dealerships that use contractors to do work on DSG's but not with Manufacturers Warranty boxes that go back to Germany for refurbing. Or to Skoda.  There are those that get MCU's refurbed or get exchange units, but that is customer paying or extended warranty work.)

 

Skoda build over 2,200 DQ200 DSGs a day in normal times for over 40 applications in VW Models and have been doing for years now.  10 years.

If there is a 2% failure in that production that is a lot of faulty DSG's but the percentage fail is greater than 2%. 

These DQ200's do not just get replaced if the a replacement MCU is what is required.

 

In the past 10 years there has been a World Wide Recall of DQ200's excluding Europe that just got a Service Campaign 2 years later (started 2014) , then a change in the oil and software and then another Service Campaign in 2017 on 2013-2015 DQ200's. then another recall in Australia on ones again from 2009-2016 and then issues with ones fitted to 1.5 TSI's and more software updates, and the issue 2015-2018 with Clutches and Software.

 

Vorsprung Durch Technik. 

'They will be more reliable once all are fitted with mild hybrids.  Well time will tell.'

 

 

 

Edited 26 March, 2022 by roottoot

[Ootohere]

As normal. No new Gearbox fitted as some seem to think is what happens.  They start internet myths by saying they are.

New boxes do get fitted, often after the Robert the Bruce's spider actions. Try try and try again doing the cheapest fix first no matter how inconvenienced a owner is. 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/501404-automatic-gearbox-issues

 

As has been the case for over a decade when a MCU is needed, the story about building one, then they arrive and the software is wrong and more often than not it is the Techs available at a dealership that are wrong / not qualified to do the job.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/487133-mechatronic-unit-failure

 

 

 

Edited 26 March, 2022 by roottoot