Tiers, Lockdowns & Vaccinations

[EnterName]

18 hours ago, skomaz said:

 

Did you read the article in full?

 

If you did you will have noriced that the liability issue the manufacturers have is not related to adverse side effects of the vaccine itself...   rather it is to do with the physical process of the injecting of the vaccine and the storage of the vaccine prior to this process.  These are things they cannot control and would be difficult to control and be sure were being done correctly in some refugee camps.  They are therefore currently wary of accepting liability for that side of the process only.

 

As others have pointed out you are reading something into the article that isnt actually stated within the text.

 

I'll try and explain by way of an analogy...

 

A meat company produces a pack of sliced chicken in a sealed pack, transports it to a supermarket in a refrigerated lorry and it is placed on a shelf in a fridge in the shop.  You buy it, take it home, store it in a fridge and then a friend eats it.  If they get ill there was probably something wrong with it and the meat company is liable.

 

However, if you buy it, open the packet, leave it on the back seat of a hot car to go rancid and then your friend eats it and gets ill the product was fine before you mistreated it and then ate it so the meat company are not liable...  why should they be when its not thier fault your friend got ill but is actually your fault.

I have been told in unambiguous terms that there is only one opinion permissible on this subject on Briskoda, so unless you (or anyone) would care to discuss this in DMs with me, I cannot comment further on the issue on the forums.

[Ootohere]

London should be good for the research being carried out on vaccinated and un-vaccinated since they think a third are totally un-vaccinated.

Not that anyone actually knows how many there are in London or surrounding areas or who comes and goes in and out and it is all guesswork.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59710649

 

[@Lee]

Sajid Javid on The Andrew Marr show today refused to rule out new restrictions before Christmas. Said 80% of cases in London were of the omicron variant and that figure was 60% nationally. Whether he meant 60% of England or the whole of the UK and NI I don't know but I suspect he meant England.

He's also been on the Trevor Phillips Show (Sky) slating anti-vaxxers who've chosen not to get vaccinated for taking up hospital beds and damaging society.
Got to say, I agree with him. 
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-javid-refuses-to-deny-plans-for-more-restrictions-as-he-accuses-anti-vaxxers-of-having-damaging-impact-12499691
 

Edited 19 December, 2021 by @Lee

[Ootohere]

Accurate figures and percentages are not something to expect from a former banker. 

 

He has watched Andrew Marr from the beginning, so 17 years & since before he was in politics.

That was when he was in banking and on loan as an aide to the New York Mayor candidate Rudi Giuliani when employed by a bank.

(So not in politics!)  

 

 

Edited 19 December, 2021 by roottoot

[cheezemonkhai]

10 hours ago, @Lee said:

He's also been on the Trevor Phillips Show (Sky) slating anti-vaxxers who've chosen not to get vaccinated for taking up hospital beds and damaging society.
Got to say, I agree with him. 
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-javid-refuses-to-deny-plans-for-more-restrictions-as-he-accuses-anti-vaxxers-of-having-damaging-impact-12499691
 

Personal post…

 

I agree with him on that. I could forgive early nervousness, but now it’s potentially killing those who need an ITU bed for other reasons.

[@Lee]

So no further lockdown measures yet. Looks like yet another case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. IMHO he's caved to pressure from the backbench nutters.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59733893

[Ootohere]

Christmas is not cancelled in Scotland it will happen on the usual day which is the 25th December.

Hogmanay is not cancelled either and it is on the 31st of December as normal.

 

The Edinburgh Hogmanay commercial ticket event is cancelled though. So people will need to party for free on the streets. 

Do some litter picking and take your own cheese.

  Spectators at professional sporting events inside are not allowed. 

 

All outdoor events will be limited to 500 people.  

 

From the 26th. 

Some indoor events limited to 200 seated and 100 standing.

Thousands wandering about in Shopping malls will be just fine.

Mobbing the shops this week and then next week will carry on as usual.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-59745262

 

 

 

Edited 21 December, 2021 by roottoot

[@Lee]

Quote

Boris Johnson has confirmed he will not introduce any further COVID restrictions in England before Christmas, but warned that the situation remains "finely balanced" ahead of the New Year.

In a video posted on social media and released by Downing Street, the prime minister said "people can go ahead with their Christmas plans" but urges caution and suggests people should take a test before meeting elderly relatives.

"The situation remains extremely difficult, but I also recognise that people have been waiting to hear about whether their Christmas plans, your Christmas plans, are going to be affected," Mr Johnson said.

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-says-no-further-restrictions-before-christmas-but-situation-remains-finely-balanced-due-to-omicron-12501575

We've seen this movie before.
 

[EnterName]

On 19/12/2021 at 21:34, cheezemonkhai said:

Personal post…

 

I agree with him on that. I could forgive early nervousness, but now it’s potentially killing those who need an ITU bed for other reasons.

I realise it's a personal post, but do you have a reputable source for how many unvaccinated people with COVID are bed-blocking ITU beds?

[Ootohere]

This morning a Consultant from a London Hospital ICU was asked how many Covid patients he had in his care were unvaccinated and he said between 80%-90%

 

The actual figures do seem to be something the Government will not just give the general public. 

 

There are doctors being asked how many they treat that survive that regret not being vaccinated.

The people that worried about the side affects, clots etc,  that are now being kept alive with all sorts of medications including ones to inhibit clotting. 

 

Sir Iain Duncan Smith and other politicians are there always wanting to 'follow the science on COVID',  yet want to ignore the science if it does not meet what their little group wants and that of those behind the money funding their 'group of politicians' that do not agree with the Ministers in the cabinet. 

 

The statistics will be there for different areas and countries of the UK.

Maybe the numbers for London Hospitals are easy to actually get. For the 3rd week in December 2021.

https://fullfact.org/health/dr-hilary-lorraine-kelly-90-percent

 

 

 

Edited 21 December, 2021 by roottoot

[john999boy]

On 19/12/2021 at 21:34, cheezemonkhai said:

Personal post…

I agree with him on that. I could forgive early nervousness, but now it’s potentially killing those who need an ITU bed for other reasons.

 

44 minutes ago, EnterName said:

I realise it's a personal post, but do you have a reputable source for how many unvaccinated people with COVID are bed-blocking ITU beds?

 

Let's not even think about going down this route again. ‼️

[Ootohere]

https://www.mylondon.news/news/health/london-icu-doctor-warns-9-22533020

 

 

 

Edited 21 December, 2021 by roottoot

[cheezemonkhai]

Thanks for the link, backs up what I was told by a consultant.

 

ITU is intensive care and it isn’t only COVID patients that need these specialist beds.
If it’s full, then those who need it for reason beyond their immediate control can’t get a bed.

 

I’d say the same if it was full of people who had gone out on a week long drinking session too.

Edited 21 December, 2021 by cheezemonkhai

[J.R.]

Interesting choice of words, 80-90% are unvaccinated but did not say that 90% or whatever percentage were in ICU with Covid, went on to say that "

 

"Jabs prevent severe disease and three doses are estimated to be 80 per cent effective against the Omicron strain, figures from Imperial College London show."

 

Do they mean that the Covid vaccine would prevent severe cases of other diseases?

 

I wish they had said how many would not have been on the ICU had they been vaccinated.

 

This is not an anti-vax posting, I am 100% for it, even one preventable serious illness or death is a tragedy and takes up resources, there was just something about the way the statement was written that raised a flag with me.

[StevesTruck]

11 hours ago, EnterName said:

I realise it's a personal post, but do you have a reputable source for how many unvaccinated people with COVID are bed-blocking ITU beds?

 

It's not necessarily about blocking the actual bed, but about the amount of staff required to staff intensive care. It should be one to one care, 24 hours a day. 

 

Reputable source? A friend of the family is a recovery room nurse who's been redeployed to covid ICU for most of the pandemic, as her hospital has had to do a lot less elective surgery. I'll let you look up what elective surgery is. 

[Ootohere]

When i was listening to the ICU Doctors / Consultants they were asked how many patients in ICU they were treating had been vaccinated.

They were not asked about patients in general that were in hospital with Covid 19. 

 

This given how many ICU beds there were in Scotland June 2020.

http://www.gov.scot/news/intensive-care-units-show-resilience-during-covid-19/

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/scotland-has-lowest-number-of-hospital-beds-in-a-decade

 

Later I will link the Scottish Government site for Covid positives,  those in hospital and in ICU,s because of Covid.  Looks like very low numbers in ICU,s for a country with around 5.5 million of a population and others that are not in that count.   

EDIT.

My bad.

The 37 are in ICU with 'Recently confirmed covid 19'.   

 *There are those still in ICU from being positive with Covid 19 longer than 28 days. *

That being 14 more unfortunates sadly.

 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/

 

Edited 22 December, 2021 by roottoot

[skomaz]

Well after all that malarky of banning entry to UK residents over the number of infections France now has the worst covid numbers in Europe...   over 208,000 today and similar yesterday.

 

The UK is 183,000

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-59822209

Edited 29 December, 2021 by skomaz

[J.R.]

It was always going to happen, we simply lagged behind the UK one or two weeks, I expect the UK's figures are diminishing now or if not very soon, Frances figures will explode in week 1 January.

 

Like Christmas day this New Years Eve I will be the minority of one that is not spending 12+ hours eating and drinking in close proximity with friends & extended family. New years eve is far more important than Christmas day, parties do not end till 6am when the final course of onion soup is served before people take to the road.

 

The measures if you look at them in detail did not prevent entry from the UK to those who have French residency nor prevent any UK citizens from visiting the UK and returning but they did prevent the French who are the majority, they are still not even allowed to travel to the UK to attend the funeral of a close family member or to care for a dependant whatever the circumstances, before even when nobody was allowed more than 500m from their homes those exceptions were allowed.

 

 

[skomaz]

5 minutes ago, J.R. said:

It was always going to happen, we simply lagged behind the UK one or two weeks, I expect the UK's figures are diminishing now or if not very soon, Frances figures will explode in week 1 January.

 

Like Christmas day this New Years Eve I will be the minority of one that is not spending 12+ hours eating and drinking in close proximity with friends & extended family. New years eve is far more important than Christmas day, parties do not end till 6am when the final course of onion soup is served before people take to the road.

 

The measures if you look at them in detail did not prevent entry from the UK to those who have French residency nor prevent any UK citizens from visiting the UK and returning but they did prevent the French who are the majority, they are still not even allowed to travel to the UK to attend the funeral of a close family member or to care for a dependant whatever the circumstances, before even when nobody was allowed more than 500m from their homes those exceptions were allowed.

 

 

 

Indeed it was unfortunately and you'll note I worded my post carefully noting 'UK residents' were not allowed entry.  Also I think your calculations were about spot on.   The posts on this thread about France restricting entry were made around the 16th December and I think you calculated the numbers would be similar within 2 weeks?

 

I wonder what Macron is thinking now...   probably trying to deflect blame rather than, as you imply, looking closer to home...

 

You have my sympathies re your Christmas Day and New Years situation bt i would suggest you are being eminently sensible and careful!

 

 

 

 

[J.R.]

Not through choice, just how things have worked out, stuck now for 2 years in a place that was only supportable when the business was going well and a constant flow of people from other regions of France, Commonwealth Countries and the world over.

 

It was also very enjoyable during the renovation years, I was only ever going to run it for 5-7 years and then sell, I was at 100% occupancy all year round immediately so hurriedly finished the remaining appartements, then came the terrorist attacks & then Brexit and €200k was wiped off the valuation, I was still making a reasonable living but nothing like before, Covid took away everything remaining overnight and there has been no reprise, my renters were either contract workers for Airbus (all laid off) companies creating new production lines etc (no more capital investment) and WW1 battlefield visitors from the UK and commonwealth countries (nobody now for 20 months)

 

I have bought a new renovation project close to Bergerac and am just waiting to complete the formalities, I can't wait to get stuck in to the next phase of life, this one has ended, I will walk away from it and mothball the building if need be.

Edited 29 December, 2021 by J.R.

[skomaz]

Looks like France have been blocking UK nationals traveling to other EU countries as well...   but are now easing things a bit, although still no change in rules despite the reversal of infection numbers...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59832076

[@Lee]

I asked a prof of EU law on Twitter today if I had it right; "I am a UK citizen with German residency. If I wanted to take the tunnel to from UK -  Germany via France, Belgium & Netherlands I could only do so if my partner was in the with me. Is that about right? He replied 'That's the French position but it *may* breach the Schengen code'.
Lot's of UK citizens in the EU on Twitter have been pretty angry about this. I know it seems to some the French have postured on brexit matters, often wrongly, but in this, I think Macron is out of order.
 

I saw there's big shortage of LFT's in the UK sadly with one MP saying that they only had a short shelf life!! IMO it's been another logistical balls up. Tell people to go and get tested but not ensuring that the tests can get to where they're needed. 
Short shelf life my ar$e...
 

Edited 30 December, 2021 by @Lee

[cheezemonkhai]

I know some of the issue is less slots available as RM have had to deal with Christmas too.

 

Combine that with a huge order from many parts of the world to reduce global availability and I’d imagine a degree of hoarding by some.

 

As they’re essentially pregnancy test type technology, albeit looking for covid rather than hormones I’m a little surprised nobody has started to make them in UK/Europe rather than just buying them all in from China.

 

 

[@Lee]

25 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

I know some of the issue is less slots available as RM have had to deal with Christmas too.

 

Combine that with a huge order from many parts of the world to reduce global availability and I’d imagine a degree of hoarding by some.

 

As they’re essentially pregnancy test type technology, albeit looking for covid rather than hormones I’m a little surprised nobody has started to make them in UK/Europe rather than just buying them all in from China.

 

 

C4 News reported that Javid (I think it was) said they expected there would be a two week shortage of them in the UK.
I do wonder if they weren't handing out box fulls of them like sweeties then there wouldn't be such a shortage. I also wonder, given that people can get free boxes of them, how many have ended up on the Bay of E being sold for a tidy sum? I haven't checked but I expect they are unless they're a prohibited item. Facebook Marketplace aren't so fussy.

There are some European and US makers of LFT antigen tests but yeah, they overall are coming in from China.

I haven't noticed any shortage of them here. 
 

Edited 30 December, 2021 by @Lee

[john999boy]

The local pharmacy had a big sign on the door yesterday saying that they didn’t have any LFT kits in stock.

 

In the short time I was inside I heard two people approach the assistant asking if they could have a pack. 🤦‍♂️