Greenline 1.6tdi ride quality impressions

[Carlston]

4 hours ago, PhilEyre said:

The Swedish winter tyres 205/55 gave an awful ride, night and day compared to the 215s.  I can't face continuing to drive it with 205s...

 

Are you using the 7Jx16 ET45 rims, or the narrower 6Jx16 ET50 rims? They should both be listed in the Certificate of Conformity.

 

Using 6J instead of 7J rims for the 205/55R16 should give a noticeable improvement in the ride.

 

All-season tyres with the 3PMSF symbol are winter rated, even though they can be used all year round. So I doubt you would have any legality issues in France with 205/55R16 all-season tyres (or winter tyres) fitted to these 6Jx16 ET50 winter rims on the Yeti 1.6 diesel.

 

Maybe the Swedish winter tyres have particularly thick and inflexible sidewalls, resulting in a hard ride?

 

It's possible the sidewalls have been reinforced on the Swedish winter tyres, because Nordic winter tyres will often be used in deep snow where you can't always see the kerb. Hence, reinforced sidewalls might be used to help stop the tyres being damaged when you accidentally hit the kerb in the deep snow. Add in the relatively wide 7J rims for the 205/55R16 tyre size, and you have a recipe for a hard ride.

 

Yeti steel rim for winter tyre 6Jx16 ET50 5/112 57.1

22	8P0601027	Steel rim for winter tires	6Jx16 ET50 5/112	4	PR-1G1
	8P0601027 03C	rally black

 

Edited 6 May, 2023 by Carlston

[Carlston]

9 hours ago, PhilEyre said:

Well, the independent tyre fitter who lives not far from me had this to say last Thursday.  I told him about the test centre refusing the 215s, and going back with 205s.  He then looked at the white label on the inside of the fuel flap.  He told me that in his experience, from folk he has worked with, the 4th item listed during an accident report inspection and to check for is the correct tyre dimension.  He said if he could be identified as the last person to fit an incorrect tyre size before an accident he could be prosecuted, which is why he refused to give me a written bill.  

 

You can purchase those white labels inside the fuel filler flap. They have the OEM part number on them for ease of ordering. Perhaps purchase a label from the Yeti 2.0TDI 81kW as that lists the tyre pressures for 205/50R17 93T, 205/55R16 91T, 215/60R16 95T, 225/50R17 94T. There were two engine versions of the Yeti 2.0TDI 81kW FWD (Front Wheel Drive), Euro 5 engine 2009-2015, and Euro 6 engine 2015 onwards.

 

OEM part number 5L0010724Q looks like it might be the right one.

 

7	5L0010657F	data plate for tyre pressure D >> - 27.09.2009		1	PR-TW0,TE6
7	5L0010724P	data plate for tyre pressure D - 28.09.2009>> - 27.06.2010		1	PR-TW0,TE6
7	5L0010764F	data plate for tyre pressure D - 28.06.2010>>		1	PR-TW0,TE6, TU0
7	5L0010657G	data plate for tyre pressure D >> - 27.09.2009		1	PR-TU3
7	5L0010724Q	data plate for tyre pressure D - 28.09.2009>>		1	PR-TU3,TP4
7	5LF010828L	data plate for tyre pressure		1	PR-D91,D96 "IND"
7	5L0010724R	data plate for tyre pressure		1	PR-M92
7	5L0010826H	data plate for tyre pressure		1	PR-TE6
7	5L0010744E	data plate for tyre pressure		1	PR-TF3
7	5L0010871E	data plate for tyre pressure		1	PR-TU0,TW0
7	5L0010871F	data plate for tyre pressure		1	PR-D67,M92
7	5L0010871G	data plate for tyre pressure		1	PR-D96
7	5L0010871H	data plate for tyre pressure		1	PR-D93,D91
7	5L0010793C	data plate for tyre pressure		1	PR-D91

 

VW Codes Decoder

http://igorweb.org/equidec.aspx

 

TW0 = 4-cylinder gasoline engine 1.2 L Unit 03F.B
TE6 = 4-cylinder gasoline engine 1.8 l unit 06J.3
TU0 = 4-cylinder gasoline engine 1.4 L unit 03C.K
TU3 = 4-cylinder diesel engine 2.0 l Unit 03L.H
TP4 = 4-cylinder diesel engine 2.0 l unit 03L.P
D91 = 4-cyl. turbo diesel engine 2.0 l/103 kW (4V) TDI common rail; Base engine: TG3/ TJ3/TU3/TU4/TL4/TP4/TM3/TW3/TR4/TS1/TN5
D96 = 4-cyl. turbo dies. eng. 2.0 l/81 kW (4V)TDI common rail Base engine is TG3/TP4/TU3/TL4
M92 = 4-cyl. gasoline engine 1.8 l/112 kW 16V turbo FSI, homogeneous Base engine is TJ2/TE6
TE6 = 4-cylinder gasoline engine 1.8 l unit 06J.3
TF3 = 4-cylinder diesel engine 1.6 L 03L.1
D67 = 4-cyl. gasoline engine 1.8 l/118 kW 16V turbo FSI, homogeneous Base engine: TJ2/TT2/TE6/TH2/TF6/TW2/TH6
D93 = 4-cyl. turbo dies. eng. 2.0 l/125 kW 4V TDI common rail Base engine is TG3/TH3/TL4/TM4/TP4/TU3
D91 = 4-cyl. turbo diesel engine 2.0 l/103 kW (4V) TDI common rail; Base engine: TG3/ TJ3/TU3/TU4/TL4/TP4/TM3/TW3/TR4/TS1/TN5

 

 

Edited 6 May, 2023 by Carlston

[PhilEyre]

Thanks a lot, this is becoming ludicrous.  The 1.6 MPI can take up to 225 size whereas the 1.6 TDI CR cannot take any above 205 (!!!).  Am going to contact the Skoda dealer who sold me the 1.6 diesel with 215 fitted by themselves and ask them to sort out the mess.  If I do not get confirmation that I can fit 215s to this then I'll be asking them to swap for a 2 litre.  It's a real pleasure to drive with 215/60/R16  Michelins fitted.

[Carlston]

1 hour ago, PhilEyre said:

Thanks a lot, this is becoming ludicrous.  The 1.6 MPI can take up to 225 size whereas the 1.6 TDI CR cannot take any above 205 (!!!).  Am going to contact the Skoda dealer who sold me the 1.6 diesel with 215 fitted by themselves and ask them to sort out the mess.  If I do not get confirmation that I can fit 215s to this then I'll be asking them to swap for a 2 litre.  It's a real pleasure to drive with 215/60/R16  Michelins fitted.

 

From the below chart that is in the November 2014 Yeti owner's manual:

 

The smaller outside diameter 205/55R16 and 205/50R17 tyres are the normal sizes for the 1.6 diesel, but for the 1.6 petrol, the bigger outside diameter 215/60R16 and 225/50R17 are the normal tyre sizes.

 

205/55R16 and 205/50R17 are winter tyre sizes that can be used with snow chains, and all Yeti's can use those. However, on the 1.6 diesel 205/55R16 and 205/50R17 are also used on normal summer tyre sizes.

 

What may be surprising, is that the 1.6 diesel can't use 195/65R15 and 225/45R17 tyres like the 1.2 petrol with low ground clearance (155mm).

 

I suggest you give the seller these three OEM part numbers, as they should have all of the 205/55R16, 205/50R17, 215/60R16, and 225/50R17 tyre sizes printed on them along with their tyre pressures. I expect they cost less than 1 Euro each from Skoda parts departments, as they are only white labels that are stuck inside the fuel filler flap.

 

White labels for inside of fuel filler flap, with 205/55R16 91T, 205/50R17 93T, 215/60R16 95T, and 225/50/R17 94T tyre sizes listed on them showing tyre pressures

5L0010657G

5L0010724Q

5L0010871G

 

Edited 7 May, 2023 by Carlston

[J.R.]

Phil I have lived here long enough ans speak very good French to have confronted this "totally illegal" BS numerous times, no point me explaining further but to say that your car was almost certainly sold legally and your tyre and rim size also legal, the sticker on the fuel cap is not the definitive document and being universal will almost certainly list sizes that were not homologated for your vehicle and which should actually fail a CT, ignore all the "illegal" hyperbole or simply do as I do and ask them to direct me to the  Text de Loi Article number of the mythical law whichwhich never exists, they always respond defensively with "on m'a dit!" = Bloke said! 😆

 

If your car was purchased second hand it could have a non homologated tyre size fitted, if bought new then zero chance.

 

As was spoken of earlier, find the EU certificate of conformity for your vehicle, it will be listed in the carte grise maybe as "Type Mines" it will list all the hologated wheel and tyre sizes, you are free to use any combination.

 

I have loads listed for my vehicle, the CT centre may not have all listed, a compromise if your wheel tyre combo is wrong and you want to continue with them is to buy a cheap set of winter wheels & tyres & use those for the CT test, I even have a set you can have for free, buying a new vehicle and suing the manufacturer would be over-reacting to a situation that probably does not even exist except in the imagination of the CT testers and tyre fitters.

 

Go get that CoC and you will see you have been wound up by uninformed CT testers & mechanics, the French love to exaggerate and warn you of the millions of euros in fines and decades of imprisonment for towing a trailer with the wrong number plate, the next week I have seen the same person doing exactly that, when I mention it I get a shoulder shrug and a "Bof! que voulez-vous que je fasse!" = so what, what else could i do!

[J.R.]

I have just reread all Phils previous posts, please tell me if I have misunderstood in my summary below.

 

You bought a vehicle 6 years ago from a Skoda dealer and asked them to fit new tyres for you, possibly winter tyres.

 

They fitted a size non homologated for your vehicle, you were unaware.

 

You have since driven 100000 kms on these tyres and/or their replacements and/or summer tyres.

 

You now want them to exchange your vehicle for a 2 litre version as compensation for the wrog tyres that you have used all the life of.

 

You intend to use your legal protection insurance extension to either sue the garage or achieve the above as compensation.

 

If the above is correct then you are deluding yourself, you have suffered no loss and are likely to see legal "experts" on both sides filling their boots before finally agreeing that you have suffered no loss, your car will likely be held (sealed) as evidence during all this time while they game the system.

 

 

 

Edited 7 May, 2023 by J.R.

[PhilEyre]

Thanks this is useful advice, will chase up the 'Type Mines' data mentioned above.  However...if Skoda France and others are right, I do not agree that there is no loss involved here.  Skoda France sent me a mail last week after I asked them to confirm there no reason why I could not fit 215s to my 1.6tdi.  Their reply was categorical - VW national office, Paris, Customer Relations:

"Bonjour Monsieur
Nous faisons suite à votre demande en nos services du 5 mai 2023.
Vous souhaitez des informations concernant les montes compatibles avec votre Skoda Yeti (Châssis : TMB*************).
Après vérification, la seule monte de pneumatique homologuée pour votre véhicule est 205/55 R16 91T.
Si vous utilisé des montes de pneumatiques non homologuées, vous vous exposez à des risques sécuritaires, un refus au contrôle technique de votre véhicule* et une non-couverture par votre assurance en cas d’accident..."

*already happened end 2022 - test centre refused those tyres

 

So this means that for VW/Skoda, a distributor in their network supplied a (second-hand) Yeti with 215/60/R16s despite the non-conformity with the particular model.  They state that in case of an insurance claim the insurer may point to that non-conformity and refuse to accept any claim.  My insurer also confirmed this by phone last week.  This means potentially that for several years I have been driving without any guarantee of insurance cover despite paying out about 500 euros per year for full cover etc per year with a leading insurer (Pacifica) and I am now faced with the obligation to replace a set of perfectly good summer 215s to comply with law.  The fact that there is a serious doubt about insurance cover during the 6 years 2017 to 2023 means in case of any serious collision I could have been exposed to costs or losses in the tens of thousands, possibly greater.   So from where I'm sitting at the moment the potential loss (no effective insurance cover due to wrong tyres fitted by Skoda) is a significant one.  Having asked for reassurance from Skoda about fitting 215s they state (above) that they cannot provide that.   So next week I'll be taking legal advice and I suspect Skoda could be on the spot for the prejudice - even if unintentionally their error has invalidated my insurance.  As official distributors of the brand they have a duty of technical precision and fitting the right components. 
 

[PhilEyre]

Further info from a Skoda site https://www.auto-selection.com/fiche-technique/skoda/yeti/2013/1-6-tdi-105-elegance-dsg-green-tec-4x2-1203965.php.  Refers to 205s only.  Otherwise various sites want to sell an EU Cert of Conformity for over 100 euros, for free one 'please contact constructor'...

FICHE TECHNIQUE SKODA YETI 1.6 TDI 105 ELEGANCE DSG GREEN TEC 4X2 DIESEL ANNÉE 2013, 2014 ET 2015

Marque :SKODA

Modèle :Yeti

Version :1.6 TDI 105 Elegance DSG Green Tec 4x2

Catégorie :Break 5 portes

Energie :Diesel

Commercialisation :du 08/2013 au 05/2015

 

Pneumatiques

Matériau des jantes :Aluminium

Taille des roues avant :205/55 R16

Taille des roues arrière :205/55 R16

[Ootohere]

Edited 7 May, 2023 by toot

[b1ackb1rd]

On 06/05/2023 at 09:45, PhilEyre said:

TYRE ISSUE still alive and well.  Interesting to read Blackbird's post about the 215/60s fitted to a 1.6tdi.  I am reliably informed that the 215/60s summer tyres just refitted to my 2014 Yeti 1.6 Green Tec are totally illegal; only 205/55s will do.  I bought the vehicle in 2017 from the local dealer and guess what, it came with new 215/60s fitted by the dealer as I needed some new winter tyres at the time.  I have driven almost 100,000 km in 5 years with 215/60s, only finding out about a potential problem end of last year during French MOT via a vigilant test centre.  Finally I contacted both Skoda France, and the original supplier I bought from in 2017, plus my insurer who all concurred: only 205s are legal.  I am therefore going to contact my legal advisor next week, sell the 1.6 and buy a 2 litre so I can finally ride on 215s in peace!   I hope to get a good deal by threatening to sue the distributor who sold me a Yeti with new but illegal tyres fitted nearly 6 years ago. 

And yes, the Swedish winter tyres 205/55 gave an awful ride, night and day compared to the 215s.  I can't face continuing to drive it with 205s...

 

Your signature says 1.6tdi dsg ?

 

I thought the Greenline models were eco spec to qualify for lower road tax and insurance? Hence the lower profile 205/55/16 and manual gearbox ... 

 

If your 1.6tdi has dsg, surely it's not a Greenline and therefore not 'restricted' to 205/55/16 tyres?

 

 

[PhilEyre]

Hi Blackbird, the car is a 2014 1.6tdi  DSG (so auto)  'Green Tec, Elegance'.  I bought it second-hand near new from the local dealer.  It came with the wider hubs, 7" and the 215s fitted by same dealer.  Today I found   earlier references to the series 1 Greenline for this exact engine with 215s as an option, according to this table from a French forum.   Yet all the official statements received in the last week have confirmed that they are not legal size for this model

 

[J.R.]

Sorry to be blunt and unsympathetic but you have suffered no losses if the tyres are long since worn out.

 

What might have happened within the last 6 years did not happen so you suffered no loss.

 

You may feel angry and frustrated by what might have happened but it didn't and you have suffered no loss.

 

You are viewing your percieved loss and prejudice from a UK standpoint, even then I doubt you would have any demonstratable losses to claim, you certainly do not have in France.

 

You said earlier something like the car came with new tyres because you needed new winter tyres, did they do this FOC to seal the deal or charge you extra? Did you perhaps specify your preferred tyre size?

 

Whether or not you did or would admit so in their shoes I sure as hell would say that you insisted that 215/60 tyres be fitted before you would buy the vehicle

 

The best you can hope for is a goodwill payment, une geste commerciale, there will be no chance of that after you have threatened them with legal action.

Edited 7 May, 2023 by J.R.

[PhilEyre]

Perhaps, we'll see in due course and I'll let you know.  However under the law including case law  a professional trader has an obligation to supply a vehicle that is road-legal (whatever the customer preferences).  So far all official responses have confirmed that  with the bigger tyres my Yeti is not road legal and  I have specific invoice for the 215s fitted by Skoda in 2017 same time as the vehicle was bought, but I'm still hoping that someone will let me know (in writing) that the 215s do not render my insurance cover null and void

[Ootohere]

It seems simple enough if you think you have run illegal tyres for 5 years now & 100,000 km, just fit the correct size now that you know what that is. 

 

If you can not face a car running with 205/55's then maybe neither could the previous owner who then sold / traded in their car meaning it arrived at a Dealers with that size fitted.

Maybe time to sell it and get something else.  Or even the suspension needs a refresh. 

 

Edited 8 May, 2023 by toot

[Frenchtone]

Why not talk with your local insurance office for their views?

[Urrell]

On 06/05/2023 at 09:45, PhilEyre said:

 I hope to get a good deal by threatening to sue the distributor who sold me a Yeti with new but illegal tyres fitted nearly 6 years ago. 

The 215/60 16" are NOT an illegal size for a Yeti just something the Greenline 1.6 TDI does not normally come with but are homologated size for a Skoda Yeti!

[PhilEyre]

First time I've seen that in writing.  I hope to obtain something in writing from the Skoda people I purchased the vehicle from (sold with 7" hub + 215s as supplied, not requested).  The full 'certificat d'immatriculation', the European certificate of conformity, something with official weight.  For the insurance the homologation question is important, indeed vital

[ejstubbs]

On 07/05/2023 at 16:25, PhilEyre said:

Further info from a Skoda site https://www.auto-selection.com/fiche-technique/skoda/yeti/2013/1-6-tdi-105-elegance-dsg-green-tec-4x2-1203965.php.  Refers to 205s only.  Otherwise various sites want to sell an EU Cert of Conformity for over 100 euros, for free one 'please contact constructor'...

 

That's not a Skoda web site - click on "Fiche technique" in the breadcrumb trail in the page header (just to the left of "Acceuil") and you'll see lots of different manufacturers listed.

 

In the UK you can get the certificate of conformity for your actual vehicle free from Skoda.  This includes the tyre sizes that are homolgated for use on the vehicle (well, it does on mine, anyway).  See this Skoda UK web page:

 

Quote

 

If you are exporting or importing a vehicle produced since 1997 from another EU country, you’ll need a European Certificate of Conformity (COC) for the DVLA. The COC is an official document issued to all vehicles built to be sold and registered within the EU. The certificate confirms the vehicle has been tested and meets EU Type Approval standards.This official document is recognised by all relevant authorities.

 

The certificate is not available for passenger vehicles pre 1997. In this instance contact the vehicle authorities of the country of import for more information on their local importation rules and regulations.

 

To order your certificate, please email *****@*****.tld with your request stating your full chassis number. You will be contacted via email when your documents are available and being posted to you free of charge.

 

 

Does Skoda France (or whatever they're called) not have similar information on their web site?

 

I suppose you could even try sending your Yeti's chassis number to that e-mail address, telling them that you're moving to the UK and need the COC for the DVLA, and see what they say.

[Ootohere]

@PhilEyreWhile asking Skoda maybe ask if VW Group including Skoda sold millions of cars with Defeat Devices which were illegal and was your Yeti among those.

Did your car get a Recall Action done and new Engine Management and an Air Flow device fitted by Skoda after 2017 and are you part of a class action against the VW Group because of buying one of these cars after it was known they had these defeat devices?

Edited 8 May, 2023 by toot

[Frenchtone]

^ ^ Yes they do, had to get one when re registering my Yeti here a la frog!!

[b1ackb1rd]

Ever wished you'd not started a thread ??

[J.R.]

Easy to get a CoC from VAG Europe and free of charge, just tell them that you intend reregistering it in another country, dont be specific because within the EU you would not need to.

 

Otherwise go to the Drire with your Carte Grise or the Type Mines numéro and ask for a copy of the barré rouge, there might be a slight admin charge for it, Barré Rouge actually means the EU CoC for your vehicle which has a red band across it preventing someone else using it to support a registration application for another vehicle that they cant get one for, maybe a Yeti variant not homolgated in Europe like the Chinese built ones or a modified fire service or military version.

 

That will tell you if your wheel and tyre combination was homologated for your vehicle but Skoda France have already told you in very specific terms that it wasn't.

 

If you want the CoC to back up a claim for losses you really are pi55ing in the wind, you have not suffered any, Roots post above is bang on.

 

The incorrect tyres have long gone, you got the full service life out of them, had you just bought a set of new ones in the same size I could understand your frustration at having to replace them but its 6 years since the selling dealer fitted the wrong tyres (if the CoC says they are) and when you renewed them it was both yours and the tyre depots responsability to ensure that they were correct ones homologated for the vehicle not the dealer who sold you the car 6 years ago.

 

You have suffered no losses, I hope you get a COC and find by a remote chance that VAG France were talking rubbish, that the tyres you wish to drive on are in fact homologated for your vehicle, I fully understand the difference in ride, I feel it myself on some of the winter wheels.

 

It would be a shame to have to change the vehicle to get the ride quality the chassis deserves but Greenline models were compromised in many ways to achieve the lower CO2 rating and also to fit into the lower Puissance Fiscale (old school horsepower rating) in France, my vehicle has a 6 speed box but those supplied to France had a 5 speed box, it was registered in France by me (RHD UK import) as something it never was the French version.

 

I take a different view to the god fearing French and know that the use of the word "illegal" is BS, its simply a non conformity, they would all have you believe that your insurance will be invalid, that they wont pay out on a claim, its all BS swallowed by 99% of the French because the education system programs them to never question what they have been told. Sure if you fitted solid rubber tyres on wooden spoked wheels from a veteran car and you lost control on a bend and hit another vehicle the non conforming modification will have caused the accident and they could say it was direct and known negligence but another tyre size homologated for another Yeti with the right speed and load ratings, no way will that ever be a problem except at CT time.

 

I will need to replace my tyres soon and will try to find one with the highest most compliant sidewall, as long as the speed and load rating are OK I dont give a Four X whether they are homologated and will simply put the compliant winter wheels on for CT.

 

My sincere advice to you is find a solution for tyres which will give a good ride without having to sell the car and forget suing the selling dealer, you are setting yourself up for no end of angst for zero return.

 

When VAG homologate a range of tyres for a vehicle variant it is so they can offer option packages for each country, the UK seems to love skinny rubber bands on massive wheels despite the crap roads, other countries may require compliant tyres and more ground clearance, they homologate all the ones that might be fitted in the factory and also in case the factory of one supplier of wheels for instance burns to the ground, they can (and sometimes do) switch to an alternative.

 

In the case of the Greenline models very few tyres met the low rolling resistance criteria for the CO2 rating, ther may even be only one size homologated, when you buy a vehicle like that you accept that in the future you will have less choice of tyres etc, when things like run flat or Denovo tyres cease production then people just fit whatever else is available, they probably did so from the first replacement, this is not so easy in France with its rigid beaurocracy.

[Bas750]

On 07/05/2023 at 14:07, Carlston said:

What may be surprising, is that the 1.6 diesel can't use 195/65R15 and 225/45R17 tyres like the 1.2 petrol with low ground clearance (155mm).

Can’t or may not?

I can tell you that both fit the 1.6 tdi greenline, as I run wintertyres on the 15”, and summer tyres on the 17”. ( not bothered with stupid rules here in the Netherlands, that said, at least not with car tyres/wheels)

[PhilEyre]

Hi All, well I got my answers and have a clear view (I think) of where Skoda and I are with this one now.

The guy with Skoda who fitted the 215s in 2017 is still there and he sent me this confirmation.  Whether the rims are 6" or 7" only 205s are officially authorised.  There was no apology included in the message for fitting the 'wrong' size.

The insurance people, both for vehicle and for separate legal protection contract said the same thing: that I 'may' be taking a risk of invalidating cover with 215s.  When I asked how I can be more certain of that, the lady replied that they will be only be able to answer  when I have an accident  .   I persisted but I suspect she thought I'd already had an accident and was trying to find where I stood, so she became very defensive. 

The only plausible explanation I can see is that this 2014 variant 'Green Tec' was their attempt to push a low CO² image and that was done in part by reducing tyre size to a minimum: after all the 2013 Yeti 1.6 tdi DID have the 215s listed as an option.  The vehicle with 205s looks and drives like a Land Rover with hubs and tyres from a Mini.  At the point I'd like to talk to a specialist of accident assessment/non-standard tyre fitting, as I suspect that unless the tyres were somehow directly at fault in any accident then the 215s would not be a reason for refusing to accept an accident claim.  I may well put the 205 winter tyres back on and well after next winter season and buy a 2 litre for peace of mind unless I have expert advice along lines that the 215s would not invalidate my insurance (unless the tyres themselves were somehow a safety risk).

 

tyre size pdf.pdf

[J.R.]

It's as I thought, you will never get an apology for anything in France and you will never get anyone to back up their assertions to you with facts or in writing, they will always become defensive because 99% of the time they dont have the facts, they have been told something which they 100% believe and will tell others who 100% believe them, its how the education system works, you must never ask why, it undermines the authority of the person be they a teacher, insurance agent or whatever.

 

It's us pesky Anglais who cause them so much grief by wanting to understand the "why", the reasoning behind something, a French person will never say "I dont know, I will find out for you" that is losing face, when pushed they will make something up.

 

The worst examples are the Gendarmes, best just do as they ask without asking why and check the law yourself, this is what you will have to do if you want to find whether a future claim could be refused.

 

Even insurers dont know what is written in the policy T&C's, I regularly have to correct their assertions, I bet you my house against 10cts that you do not have a copy of the policy conditions as you should have, they treat it like some state secret and never ever want customers to have it, force the issue and you will find the 100% definitive answer to your question within and it will be different to what all the people who bloomin well should know will tell you.

Edited 11 May, 2023 by J.R.