Haldex pump update

[Grufallo]

As promised quite update on my 4wd issues. Changed the pump, oil and filter myself , took about 2 hours, fiddly but straight forward. Hardest part was removing the filter hence the screw for leverage. Oil was grey / black full of small black particles. Pump didn't work and blocked. Filter absolutely stuffed with gunge. Moral of the story is 1: Check your rear drive kicks in, traction off and boot it on wet grass. and ..2: If you book it in for a service and have the Haldex oil changed make sure the filter is done too as many inc VW say the filter doesn't exist ( Mine is my 12 Haldex get 4, maybe different on later models ). What a difference car feels amazing and is ready for winter, surprisingly capable off road!

Hope this helps someone as I ponder how many are driving a 4x4 in only 2wd like I was, same unit across the range Skoda, VW, Audi etc.

A quick check will potentially avoid finding out your 4wd doesn't work when you need it!

[fabia88]

Hi, what milage did this issue occur at?

[Yety]

No real need for a screw in the filter, slacken off the the 2 screws on the cap. Remove one, take a judgement of the amount of engagement needed to avoid pulling out with both screws slackened, and just start the engine - shutting down after a few seconds.

The pump is activated just below normal idle revs, pressure builds up and displaces the cap and filter to the extent you allowed in the exposed thread length.

As soon as the filter "O" ring clears the casing, oil floods out and so there is no fear it will eject through the floor panel 

Usual stuff, clean around the filter cap, the floor above etc to ensure no particle of anything gets into the unit body.

Has worked for me for years now.

[Frenchtone]

+1 ^

[Grufallo]

2 hours ago, Yety said:

No real need for a screw in the filter, slacken off the the 2 screws on the cap. Remove one, take a judgement of the amount of engagement needed to avoid pulling out with both screws slackened, and just start the engine - shutting down after a few seconds.

The pump is activated just below normal idle revs, pressure builds up and displaces the cap and filter to the extent you allowed in the exposed thread length.

As soon as the filter "O" ring clears the casing, oil floods out and so there is no fear it will eject through the floor panel 

Usual stuff, clean around the filter cap, the floor above etc to ensure no particle of anything gets into the unit body.

Has worked for me for years now.

Hi, Indeed that would have been my preferred method if the pump worked! Got there in the end with the screw levered off one of the filter cap bolts screwed half way back in.

[Grufallo]

2 hours ago, fabia88 said:

Hi, what milage did this issue occur at?

Hi , I really don't know, I'm on 70k but only bought it 3 months ago. Could have failed last year or 5 years ago hence the suggestion to check your 4wd is working. Cheers.

[idleness]

18 hours ago, fabia88 said:

Hi, what milage did this issue occur at?

It can fail anytime after about 30k from the previous service depending on the filter.

Had my pump changed at 90k as it had failed, serviced at 115k and it had failed again by 135k as despite asking for it to be done the filter wasn't changed at 90 or 115, I believe it was only cleaned at 90k and untouched at 115k. 😠

I now insist on seeing the old filter after a service to make sure it's been changed.

[fabia88]

Thanks for the information, I am currently looking at getting a new car with 4wd, two options I was considering were the skoda yeti and LR freelander 2 which uses the same system. With a max budget of £4500 I am looking at ones with moderate milage (70-100K) so maybe I should also factor in a replacement pump, filter and fluid to be on the safe side.

[idleness]

I discovered that mine had gone within a week of purchase, phoned the dealer, who was 100miles  away, and told him I was getting it fixed and he was paying. He duly paid for it to be done.😁 

If you can find one get a 170 it's the best within that price range 😎

Edited 29 June, 2021 by idleness

[varaderoguy]

First job I would do with a HALDEX system - and that is get the pump gause filter and oil replaced.  So - this is one of the dumb things with VW servicing schedules:

 

For the HALDEX 4 or 5 system, they recommend oil ONLY replacement at 40000 miles (60000 kms).  Its a pointless service, because VW believe that the filter should only be replaced when pump fails!  I kid you not.

For reference, I have two 4x4 HALDEX5 Octavia's (a VRS and a Scout).  At 23,000 miles, I asked the dealer to change the oil and filter on my Scout - both were black as black and the filter was already covered in dirt and crud.  The same thing was done on the VRS - which was black and horrible at 60k miles (but I think I've got lucky and the pump seems to be okay).  By only changing the oil, you will cause premature pump failure (by which point, Skoda/VW hope you are out of warranty).

[Kenny R]

16 minutes ago, varaderoguy said:

First job I would do with a HALDEX system - and that is get the pump gause filter and oil replaced.  So - this is one of the dumb things with VW servicing schedules:

 

For the HALDEX 4 or 5 system, they recommend oil ONLY replacement at 40000 miles (60000 kms).  Its a pointless service, because VW believe that the filter should only be replaced when pump fails!  I kid you not.

For reference, I have two 4x4 HALDEX5 Octavia's (a VRS and a Scout).  At 23,000 miles, I asked the dealer to change the oil and filter on my Scout - both were black as black and the filter was already covered in dirt and crud.  The same thing was done on the VRS - which was black and horrible at 60k miles (but I think I've got lucky and the pump seems to be okay).  By only changing the oil, you will cause premature pump failure (by which point, Skoda/VW hope you are out of warranty).

Even getting the oil changed and pump filter cleaned @ 14,500 miles as in my case is no guarantee you won’t get problems.

My Kodiaq has been sitting at the dealer for almost a week with what looks like Haldex failure with metallic swarf found in the drained oil and pump filter.

 

[varaderoguy]

3 hours ago, Kenny R said:

My Kodiaq has been sitting at the dealer for almost a week with what looks like Haldex failure with metallic swarf found in the drained oil and pump filter.

oh - that sucks.  That sounds like a failure of the pump components.  How did that one flag itself up?

[Kenny R]

48 minutes ago, varaderoguy said:

oh - that sucks.  That sounds like a failure of the pump components.  How did that one flag itself up?

Noise from Haldex/ rear diff when slowly manoeuvring either forward or backwards with full lock on. Started shortly after Haldex oil was changed and pump mesh filter cleaned and steadily got worse.

[varaderoguy]

That sucks even more Kenny.  Looks like West End Skoda messed up somewhere (and it sounds like the pump suffered from oil starvation) - but the good news - it will be repaired under warranty.

 

I wonder whether WES technicians primed the Haldex pump after they changed out the Haldex oil?

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, Kenny R said:

Noise from Haldex/ rear diff when slowly manoeuvring either forward or backwards with full lock on. Started shortly after Haldex oil was changed and pump mesh filter cleaned and steadily got worse.

 

That sounds far more like differential failure, are you certain the drained oil containing swarf was not from the differential?

 

It sounds very much like someone there has got their holes confused. I did the same and ran for a couple of hundred miles with a dry differential, I avoided catastrophic failure but have diff noise and under the circumstances you describe I sometimes feel transmission wind up before something releases with a jerk, I initially thought the Halde coupling was snagging but it should not be engaged in those situations and is free spinning when tested, I am pretty sure its half shaft windup from the planet gears locking before releasing with a snatch, I had eactly the same with a Ford diff that would lock up occasionally.

 

Lucky that its still under warranty because other owners have been stuffed for £4.5k to make good the dealers incompetence, I bet you a pound to a penny they will find some excuse to eplain why they had to replace the whole differential.

Edited 29 June, 2021 by J.R.

[Kenny R]

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

That sounds far more like differential failure, are you certain the drained oil containing swarf was not from the differential?

 

It sounds very much like someone there has got their holes confused. I did the same and ran for a couple of hundred miles with a dry differential, I avoided catastrophic failure but have diff noise and under the circumstances you describe I sometimes feel transmission wind up before something releases with a jerk, I initially thought the Halde coupling was snagging but it should not be engaged in those situations and is free spinning when tested, I am pretty sure its half shaft windup from the planet gears locking before releasing with a snatch, I had eactly the same with a Ford diff that would lock up occasionally.

 

Lucky that its still under warranty because other owners have been stuffed for £4.5k to make good the dealers incompetence, I bet you a pound to a penny they will find some excuse to eplain why they had to replace the whole differential.

Just got car back, no more noises. Transpires it was only the pump filter that had swarf apparently, and oil drained was clear. 
New pump fitted and Haldex refilled and tested by them and deemed a success, time will tell. As long as it lasts till December as my new Kodiaq is due then.

[ejstubbs]

16 hours ago, varaderoguy said:

Looks like West End Skoda messed up somewhere

 

Where did Kenny say that his dealer was West End Skoda?  My experience with them has been that they refuse to do anything to the Haldex beyond the VAG mandated oil changes - no chance of them even admitting that there was a filter in there.  When the Haldex clutch pump died on my 2010 Yeti they were dismissive of all my attempts to persuade them to do anything that might reduce the risk of a repeat failure, so I took it to Autohaus and gave them the money to do all the work.  How to lose a customer...

 

They should have lots of practice at getting Haldex oil changes right, though, since IME that's all they ever do with them.

[varaderoguy]

35 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

 My experience with them has been that they refuse to do anything to the Haldex beyond the VAG mandated oil changes - no chance of them even admitting that there was a filter in there

Arh - WHICH West End Skoda are we talking about here?  Sighthill (Edinburgh), Dunfirmline or Stirling?  I had to do a lot of 'training' with them and almost showing them what needed to be done, but they only started doing the oil service and filter gauze change from last year after I nagged the F*** out of them to do it.  I know that both Edinburgh and Dunfirmline do this - couldn't comment about Stirling.  Euan (chief tech) is the guy to speak to there at Edinburgh and he will set you straight.  I'm not sure the others know how to do this, but speak with Euan and he'll make sure the work is properly done.  Speak with Kewin or Claire at WES Edinburgh to get the car booked in and that you definately want the gauze filter changed (this must be noted) at the same time as the oil is changed.

Edited 30 June, 2021 by varaderoguy

[skomaz]

I asked about the Haldex service history on our 'new to us' Kodiaq...   It's just over 3 years old and the service record showed an oil change earlier this year at just under 17,000 miles.  I've asked the dealer that did and supplied the car whether the filter was cleaned at the same time given it can be a known issue (even though not acknowledged by VAG) and guess what...   no reply!  A diagnostic check using a VAG specific hand held reader shows no codes but I'm still thinking it needs to go to a good independent specialist to be done again properly...

[Rustynuts]

44 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 but I'm still thinking it needs to go to a good independent specialist to be done again properly...

Or do it yourself. It's a simple enough job (albeit a bit messy) and can be done on a set of ramps with basic Torx/Allen keys and spanner set. Tricky dit is getting the new oil in I guess, but a length of clear hose and a good set of lungs will suffice if you can't get a pump to fit the Haldex fluid bottle.

[Frenchtone]

I used an over filled 50ml syringe with some tube, worked fine!

[ejstubbs]

On 30/06/2021 at 08:57, varaderoguy said:

Arh - WHICH West End Skoda are we talking about here?  Sighthill (Edinburgh)

 

That's the one.

 

The clutch pump on my 2010 Yeti failed in 2015 and back then WES Sighthill were 100% insistent that there was no filter and that a Haldex service involved nothing more than an oil change.  After several short and not very pleasant conversations with WES about what a Haldex service really ought to include, I took my car to Autohaus to get the work done.  WES Sighthill may have changed their ideas since then but when my 2017 Yeti needed its Haldex service last year I took it to Autohaus for the full 3-year service because WES Sighthill had already destroyed any faith I had in them.  So their poor attitude six years ago is losing them business now.  Their loss.

 

I don't see any reason to spend my time trying to get a dealer with a rather annoying "we know best" attitude* to understand why the official service regime is inadequate when there's a well-regarded independent within the same travelling distance who is already well aware of the issue and is perfectly happy to do the necessary work.

 

* I had a run-in with WES Sighthill before when they denied that some other, very minor, work that I wanted done was even possible to do.  When I presented them with clear evidence from Briskoda that other Yeti owners had had that work done on their cars by their local Skoda dealers, they dismissed it out of hand with "you can't believe everything you read on the Internet".  If they'd just agreed to look in to it in more detail (e.g. they could perhaps have contacted the dealers in question) then I'd have felt less fobbed-off.  That was their first chance.  The Haldex issue was the second chance they had with me to put in more than the bare minimum of effort and they blew it.

[Schtum]

1 hour ago, ejstubbs said:

 

That's the one.

 

The clutch pump on my 2010 Yeti failed in 2015 and back then WES Sighthill were 100% insistent that there was no filter and that a Haldex service involved nothing more than an oil change.  After several short and not very pleasant conversations with WES about what a Haldex service really ought to include, I took my car to Autohaus to get the work done.  WES Sighthill may have changed their ideas since then but when my 2017 Yeti needed its Haldex service last year I took it to Autohaus for the full 3-year service because WES Sighthill had already destroyed any faith I had in them.  So their poor attitude six years ago is losing them business now.  Their loss.

 

I don't see any reason to spend my time trying to get a dealer with a rather annoying "we know best" attitude* to understand why the official service regime is inadequate when there's a well-regarded independent within the same travelling distance who is already well aware of the issue and is perfectly happy to do the necessary work.

 

* I had a run-in with WES Sighthill before when they denied that some other, very minor, work that I wanted done was even possible to do.  When I presented them with clear evidence from Briskoda that other Yeti owners had had that work done on their cars by their local Skoda dealers, they dismissed it out of hand with "you can't believe everything you read on the Internet".  If they'd just agreed to look in to it in more detail (e.g. they could perhaps have contacted the dealers in question) then I'd have felt less fobbed-off.  That was their first chance.  The Haldex issue was the second chance they had with me to put in more than the bare minimum of effort and they blew it.

 

That's a shame.  I discussed cleaning the gauze on my Haldex when I had them service it on my Yeti last year.  Wendy, the Service Manager who I believe works across Sighthill and Edinburgh these days went into the workshop in Dunfermline and discussed it with the Head Tech.  She then came back and said they could do it and they charged me an extra £8.00 to remove the pump and clean the gauze.  

 

We've had really good experiences with West End, ever since Stuart, the DP loaned us a Yeti on studded winter tyres in the winter of 2010 when their only garage was in Broxburn.  I know he's a complete petrol head and has an interesting collection of cars and bikes.  He used to send cars to Star Performance to have them remapped prior to delivery to the customer.  

[TruckbusUK]

2 hours ago, Schtum said:

We've had really good experiences with West End, ever since Stuart, the DP loaned us a Yeti on studded winter tyres in the winter of 2010 

TBH I didn't think studded tyres were legal on UK public roads, then or now!

[ejstubbs]

1 hour ago, TruckbusUK said:

I didn't think studded tyres were legal on UK public roads, then or now

 

They're not specifically illegal (as in there's no UK law that says "though shalt not use studded tyres on the public road") but official advice has been that you can be done for using tyres that damage the surface of the road* - so in theory you'd have to swap wheels every time you came to a dry piece of tarmac.

 

* Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986 section 27(h): "the tyre is not maintained in such condition as to be fit for the use to which the vehicle or trailer is being put or has a defect which might in any way cause damage to the surface of the road..."  I'm sure an inventive officer could come up with a few more offences, depending on how the initial conversation went...

Edited 14 July, 2021 by ejstubbs