ESC / TPS / Start stop / Front assist errors all in one go

[Daddy_Dewado]

Hello I have a 2016 fabia estate with the 90hp 1.2 tsi. Last night when pulling into a McDonald's I had all of these errors pop up. This was just after leaving the motorway and hitting some A roads coming home from work. I restarted many times and through the drivethrough too no avail. I started driving again about 10 minutes later (engine had been running the entire time) all the lights went off one by one and everything was fine. On a short drive this morning it all happened again whilest moving. And it didn't go away in the 10 mile drive home. Luckily no limp mode but has anyone had this issue before? The ECU felt very hot on the firewall so I thought that was it, but it is not as hot today as yesterday. 

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated thankyou

[Ootohere]

Common to happen with a low battery.

Even though your battery might seem OK there might be an issue heat related to that or the ECU or connections / earths.

 

Hopefully a member with knowledge will be along to assist.  Electricity is all black magic to me.

[Daddy_Dewado]

Thankyou I will check my connections it is the original battery over the winter it said low voltage but it still stop starts on long journeys 

[KenONeill]

20 minutes ago, Daddy_Dewado said:

it is the original battery over the winter it said low voltage

Get a proper deep load test. Most battery suppliers will do that for free if they get the business should you need a new battery.

[Daddy_Dewado]

Yeah I can do one tomorrow. I work at Halfords so ez pz

[nta16]

My wife's car had a problem and the first think I thought was to charge the battery but I wasn't used to how much charging these batteries want - if you can spare the time to remove the battery from the car and give a long, slow, low recharge (often not possible with impatient modern chargers) you can probably get the battery back to health.

 

As it was my wife's always needed for work and more importantly her social life I panicked and replaced the battery, and with a different type (AGM) but it was only then I researched and found the new battery would need coding to the car, mainly because of the battery management system for the stop/start that seems very invasive on other systems.

 

Batteries and electronics don't like to be too hot so certainly at the moment the battery (and charger) wants charging somewhere cool away from the heat.

 

The car battery is one of the most oversold car parts but you always want a good battery in good condition and state of charge otherwise it can cause problems of its own and hinder resolving other problems.

 

If you change the car battery I'd also synchronise the key fob and anything else that needs synchronising on the car.

 

I alternate the use of the 'main' and 'spare' key fobs so that they get more even battery wear (use of blade) plus you know whether the spare is (rather than mislaid when you need it most) and that it operates correctly.

 

As @KenONeill has put get a drop test done - however with a place that sells batteries I wonder how large their fail section is on the gauge (RAC vans seem to be buggers for it, they must be on commission).

 

The car can start, headlights are bright but that doesn't mean the battery isn't n a lower state of charge, IIRC the computers run off their own 5v supplies and being computers are extremely fussy and temperamental about their working conditions.

 

If you work at Halfords and don't have the time or inclination to try the long, slow, low recharge route then get the best battery you can, 5 year warranty, cheaper batteries are a false economy (and check the clamping bar on the battery as Halfords has a different numbering system for their batteries.  I fitted a Halfords battery to a neighbour's that he'd bought (over-priced and undersized) and as he wouldn't let me cut of the additional plastic foot bar I spent  20 minutes adjusting his car's clamp to get it to fit this incorrect holding bar.

 

[gcasey]

Hi I'm suffering with this problem also, I have just bought the car 3 months ago.

This issue developed about 6 weeks ago, oil temp was about 75 degrees, all of the same errors appeared, including tyre pressure, no start/stop, front assist etc  I was coming out of a roundabout at the time and felt like the brakes had been jumped on. Lucky enough no one behind me.

 

I took the car back and was told dirty fuel, i drive quiet a bit but use the same station, so dirty fuel was ruled out, the errors were cleared, every trip there after same errors appeared.

 

Took the car back and they replaced the crank shaft sensor..

 

Took it for a spin and same again errors reappeared..

 

Once the car is warmed up fully, I don't have this issue.

 

Anybody any answers that could help.

[thamestrader]

I would advise getting the vehicle scanned to identify more precisely what the root cause is. I would be tempted to suggest it may be caused by an ABS Sensor problem; ABS light is on, ESC can't function if the ABS is not working so ESC light is on, TPMS use ABS sensors to determine if the wheels rotation speed differs from other wheels - can't function if ABS is not working so TPMS light is on. Front Assist and Stop Start are reports not warnings; Stop Start is most likely low battery voltage/charge. The battery is 5 years old - our Fabia hasn't had working SS for the last 2 years - replaced the battery and hey presto SS is working again. Front assist I'm not sure but its possible that its disabled because of the ABS error message - Front Assist will apply the brakes to stop the car - without ABS this could be dangerous. 

[gcasey]

Thank you for getting back to me, it's not the first time I've been told it could possibly be an ABS sensor issue, however after the crank shaft sensor got replaced, these are the error codes. Image attached.

 

I asked the technician was the new sensor calibrated/paired to the car.

Was told no its just swap out and replace.

 

I will keep you posted on progress.

[thamestrader]

The scan results you have posted look like they have come from a generic scanner rather than VAG-COM or VCDS which are VAG  specific. For info I've pasted part of the VCDS scan from my Touran which had an ABS Sensor failure a few weeks ago.

 

 

 

 

My Touran doesn't have Front Assist or TPMS but the dashboard warning lights were on for ABS, ESC and Steering - all functions that require working ABS sensors. The above VCDS scan clearly shows the faults logged. It also shows an Auto Trans (DSG) fault - this was a side effect of the ABS sensor initially intermittently failing which upset the DSG software, and the VCDS scan for the Auto Trans points to the ABS controller as the source of the problem.

 

 

[gcasey]

Thanks again thamestrader, the garage uses the snap on diagnostic device.

I will be sure to mention all of this tomorrow when I leave the car in for further diagnostic and repair..

[nta16]

@gcasey Whatever happens at the garage I'd recommend you recharge the battery or if you prefer change it but that will (may?)  require a recoding of the new battery.

 

To recharge the battery well you need a long slow and low recharge which may be beyond some of these big brash fast modern chargers, ideally you'd take the battery out of the car, and charge it somewhere cool during this hot weather.  Fully charging it could take a day or two depending on your charger, you certainly could go faster but often faster in is faster out as it doesn't go deep enough.  I don't know on a Superb but much to my surprise on my wife's 2015 Fabia only the date and time needed resetting after having the battery out the car for nearly a day (I must admit I panicked and went against my own advice and fitted a new battery anyway, I've more than enough loathing farting about with my own car to fart about with a second).

 

Others might know better but dirty fuel didn't sound right as a reason for the sudden braking to me or crank sensor, much more likely ABS sensor as @thamestrader put.

 

Too late now but if your garage doesn't have the VAG system to code everything up you'd be best to get it done by someone with the coding.  There is a map of VCDS owners who may, or may not, wish to help, obviously I can't speak for other but I was helped by one local to me. - VCDS owners map  - https://tinyurl.com/yn6mmtyk

 

HTH.

[gcasey]

Thanks nta16,

Still waiting on a response from the garage, they told me they sent the codes to VW, I've called this morning and still awaiting a response.

 

I will be sure to pass on this advice.

[nta16]

Just to be clear @gcasey AFAIK the map of VCDS owners who may, or may not, wish to help, is for your use as an owner rather than a commercial garage.

 

I think the garage is doing the right thing by checking thoroughly anything to do with the brakes but I feel you need to use a garage with the correct diagnostics systems and training in its use and how to correctly interpret the results, it can be a false economy going somewhere with general knowledge and experience rather than specific marque and model training, knowledge and experience.

 

The average vehicle owner has generally for many decades misunderstood the importance of the car battery being in a good state of charge and it being good quality and it and all it's connections being in good working condition but it has become even more important with modern cars with all the extra systems (safety, navigation, entertainment, engine, transmission, etc., etc.) and more and more computers and programs each year.

 

Also the complication of modern battery chargers and charging the various batteries has made things less straightforward than even a few years back and the modern appeal and marketing of instant solutions often leads to unnecessary purchases of new car batteries, even the breakdown companies seem to encourage this, being a cynic I'd suggest as a good source of additional revenue and profit . 

 

See my post of Thursday at 00:24 for keyfob batteries too, and if you disconnect or change the car battery to synchronise both keyfobs and anything else that needs synchronising on the car, full details will be in your 'Operating Manual'.

 

On my wife's car my first thought when something went wrong was to check and if required recharge the car battery, obviously any safety item like brakes, steering, suspension (all these involve tyres) and lighting I'd also do a visual checks and road test.  Anything to do with locking doors, windows, alarm, immobiliser I'd first check the keyfob batteries and synchronizations.  These types of checks and work are quick, easy and free to do and are the basics that are needed to prevent the need to look further and incur additional work and expense.

 

Reading and referring to the 'Operator's Manual' can also solve many problems and issues.

 

[gcasey]

@nta16so the codes were sent to a vw technician, and he has advised that the crank shaft position sensor now needs to be replaced.

I believe that means dropping the gear box to fit.

 

Original it was just the read sensor replaced.

I have also discussed with them about the battery and the possibility of it being an ABS sensor also.

 

At the minute I'm at the mercy of the garage, as the car is still under warranty.

I really appreciate your feedback.

I will keep everyone updated.

 

Thanks again.

[nta16]

@gcasey that's for your post with feedback.

 

I've no idea of the work involved but with labour costs it's a good job it's under warranty regardless.

 

You could suggest to them it might save them time money and hassle to replace the existing battery with a new one that is the equivalent in type and quality and have it coded all under warranty to save you possibly returning with more warranty work error codes be worthwhile to them and you.

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

[gcasey]

Hi all, so just a final word on this topic, 

I have put  about 1k miles on the clock since getting the crank shaft position sensor replaced.

Fuel economy has also dramatically improved.

Both the position sensor and Reluctor ring was replaced.

I hope this information helps anyone with a similar problem.

 

Again thanks for your input.

 

[Daddy_Dewado]

@gcaseyI'm really hoping that's not my problem. Put in a brand new battery and no change. I did a wheel bearing in the front left a while ago and it came about after that so just put in a new abs sensor on that side. Plus the old one looked destroyed. No avail. Might need a proper diagnostics check I guess... I've got a obd2 reader but it tells me nothing on the subject. Ahh time to drop the gearbox I guess...

[Daddy_Dewado]

This is the old abs sensor. Looks worn down. Doesn't seem right 

[FabiaGonzales]

57 minutes ago, Daddy_Dewado said:

This is the old abs sensor. Looks worn down. Doesn't seem right 

 

The ABS magnetic ring is part of the wheel bearing, since the sensor looks like that, i would assume dirt/grime has gotten behind the protective cover and has destroyed both the sensor and the ring.

 

Wheel bearings are ~45 a piece and fitting usually around 50.

[Daddy_Dewado]

Ah noo. Fair enough I did the wheel bearing 3 months ago? So that would fit. Did that myself but yeah would rather pay next time 

[Breezy_Pete]

I've heard of sensor wear like that being caused by the dust seal on the driveshaft/CV that is meant to keep debris away from the sensor/magnetic ring. The CV 'cone' bit rusts and forces that plastic disc outward towards the sensor as rust takes up more room than the parent metal.

Look at the fourth photo in this listing to see the thing I mean, just inboard of the splines:

VW AUDI SEAT SKODA FABIA MK3 1.0 PETROL DRIVESHAFT OSF 6C0407272H POLO IBIZA | eBay

[Daddy_Dewado]

Yeah I remember fighting to keep that centred when putting the driveshaft back in. 

[FabiaGonzales]

2 minutes ago, Daddy_Dewado said:

Yeah I remember fighting to keep that centred when putting the driveshaft back in. 

6Q0 407 623 E

 

That's the part number for the protective ring.

 

It should clip firmly over the end of the driveshaft, if it's not clipped firmly it will rub against the sensor (destroying it slowly) and not protect the ring from dust/dirt. Happened with mine when Skoda did mine, wasn't too happy but they reimbursed me the cost of a new abs sensor and wheel bearing so i can't entirely complain lol.

[Daddy_Dewado]

Ahhh thank you. I reckon that's it then. Put a new ring on but I guess it didn't sit right? I had a bit of trouble finding a wheel bearing that fit anyhow. One from euro the splines didn't match up right