7 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

 

 

I like the attention to detail here. The first two monkeys have cigars, but the third, who has a mouth full of cash, hasn't.   

That aint no cigar that monkey 2 is holding!

& likely Chimps.  No tails.

@Graham ButcherWhat was he moaning about the valuation on it for then?

Bought or bought with borrowed money is not leased.

 

Audi A8 diesel Fuel tank 72 liters.

50 MPG was good. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 August, 20232 yr by toot

What valuation, for the battery or the car? 

See the video. 

8 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

but electronics do fail and so that current could become a few amps or even a dead short when 100s of amps would flow and cause cables to melt and further shorts until a fire is likely to the result unless the battery becomes flat in the meantime.

 

You have neglected to consider that most if not all the circuits are fused and the main power cable from the battery (not the starter cable) has a fusible link.

 

I say most because petrol engined cars by convention did not have a fused supply to the ignition circuit for believe it or not safety reasons, I'm not sure that it still applies today but it did in 1995 which was the last burnt out vehicle I was involved with, no not in that way!!!!

 

In 84 I had one of the first Suzuki Jeeps, my bodged up wiring for air horns, essential for a young hoon caused a short which took out a lot of the ignition loom before the fusible link let go, the fire did not spread.

 

The 1995 vehicle was a 2 year old Ford Galaxy, again one of the very first, I bought it as salvage as I usually do and it was burnt out from a loom fire which had taken out the whole loom and set fire to the dashboard and drivers seat, it was new enough to be a viable repair project.

 

From the charred remains of the loom I forensically reconstructed the fault, a coil wire (unfused) had chafed through on the coil pack bracket melting the insulation on other wires in the loom, the high current fused the ignition contacts together so when the driver switched off and removed the keys the loom continued to melt, they confirmed this to me, the fire brigade eventually cut the battery cables.

 

After that I saw no end of early Galaxies smouldering at the side of the road, always 2.0 DOHC petrol engines like mine, Ford were not interested in the cause or the safety of their owners, they said candidly to me its not really a Ford, its a shared platform with VW and Seat, the only thing we supply is the 2.0 petrol engine, the car is made by a Portuguese company called Auto Europa and badged for us, the adaptions for the engine including the coil bracket are not ours, its just rebadged for us.

 

There was never a recall but they ordered the garages to fit a tywrap to hold the cable away from the sharp undeburred edge during service visits.

 

I reckon most vehicle fires now are started by the electrical system, the fuel rail leaks on the VAG TSI's have yet to result in a fire.

 

For me the safest vehicle is diesel powered, it will only combust when vaporised and then it will burn but not explode, its vaporising point is very high.

 

Petrol far more dangerous as it will vaporise at ambient temperature and will explode in the tank.

 

EV's more dangerous when the battery pack does go up but it may well take a lot longer to get there but when it does its a risk to anything around it.

 

All of the above fire scenarios are fires resulting from electrical shorts, the petrol engine has the capacity to start its own fire from a fuel leak and a spark and the EV battery has the potential to self destruct through overcharging or an internal insulation failure.

 

It would be interesting to see how much time the occupants would have to exit the vehicle safely with the same short circuit fire, say underbonnet with each of the fuel types, I reckon petrol would be by far the most dangerous in that it would spread quickly and kill a trapped driver, diesel quite some way behind it and an EV by far the slowest to reach a critical point for the battery to go up, by which time the burning plastics and dashboard etc would have already killed any occupant.

 

Just my musings but I think NCAP should be as concerned about this as they are about crash testing, after all the Fire Certification bodies are very concerned about combustible fabrics in the home and fire prevention measures to limit the spread of flame and smoke.

Oh, thats od when I read your post, the video wasn't there, now it is. Oh I must have got that wrong then, it seems as if he is buying the car and now wishing he wasn't, not that he doesn't like it because he does, but claims the infrastructure is not there at the moment and there also take a massive hit on the resale value. Maybe he should have done his research a bit better?

The video was not there but i remembered what he said as i have a very good memory, and i just had to link the video. 

 

2nd Video he says it is on lease.  Then goes on about when he bought it. 

Acts daft for affect; 

Havers,  as we call it in McMaster land, the land of Haggis which he had before. 

Edited 22 August, 20232 yr by toot

1 hour ago, toot said:

It is interesting and in the end he will tell the story and if his car needed a battery his insurance would be covering the cost of it.

It is just annoying how clicking on his vids and linking them pays for the car he says has lost him so much money because he paid so much to buy it on finance.

For him there is a Guide dog for the pretend stupid person in training. 

 

PS

It really has worried him that the Battery Pack might be damaged and it was showing overheating but he just put off getting it looked at, 

posted a clickbait vid first.  

Brain for thinking and half a brain with him. 

 

PPS

He is the kind of **** that when at Trump Turnberry just plugged in and left the car in the bay even when not charging.

Also filmed while in the dining room having breakfast and showed others there how might just not have been there with who they should be.  Did the trip to Scotland with not the smallest of genning up on chargers, charger speeds.

 

This will earn him another farthing.

 

 

 

 

 

A friend and colleague who has just bought a Taycan (1 year old and around £40k off...top end EVs aren't selling well it seems) and he quoted a story of an American that clipped something in the road and took 3mm off the undertray. Cost him $50K to replace the battery 😞 To make matters worse, the Taycan battery is apparently easy to swap out too, so labour cost wouldn't have been too much -t aking Porsche tax into account of course. . 

@J.R.No I had allowed for the fuse but as you rightly said, petrol cars do not have a fuse in the ignition circuit and so anything fed via the ignition switch is also highly unlikely to be fused, but there will be some that run circuits via fuses after the switch, except for the ignition itself for safety reasons.

 

But irrespective of the fuel type, there is always the risk of the DIY amateur electrician doing their own dodgy wiring, just as you did with your air horns. In the case of an EV, if it is a sub circuit of the normal car's wiring then the scenario you painted would be on the level of the diesel powered car, and it would like a diesel car in respect of the fire because it is just going to be the wiring and interior plastics etc in the fire at first and there would be every chance of the fire brigade turning up before the battery pack got to the critical stage as they are mounted beneath the car and flames and most of the heat will be going straight up. If the battery pack suffered a direct impact and penetration of the battery casing, then it would be very likely to create a dead short within the pack it and would quickly enter the runaway stage in a few seconds, and then it might be worse than a petrol fire in terms of the exit time you have to get out safely?

52 minutes ago, J.R. said:

That aint no cigar that monkey 2 is holding!

I looked at that quite closely to make sure it was a cigar 

 

£750 including VAT on an Inspection service even with a pollen filter change is quite an hourly rate.  (No sign of pollen filter replaced.)

But then there will be those that do not find the need to have Porsche Main Dealer Servicing if they own a car.

If they lease one and have no Service & Maintenance plan they might well be splashing the cash at the Main Dealers.

But as we know in the EU or just in the UK now it is a free market and the warranty is not invalidated by the correct servicing or 'Inspection services'. 

 

?

Did one front and 1 rear tyre get replaced? 

 

 

Edited 22 August, 20232 yr by toot

I noticed that there is a cambelt mentioned on the checklist, WTF

Thoughts on this persons take on the EV market?

 

 

We are talking buying there again.

Motability buy the cars, lease them and sell them in 3 years.

Manufacturers own cars ultimately that are leased for 2 or 3 years and then sold as used.

Same with Fleets, Local Authorities, Utility Companies etc.

 

Then the Subscription schemes are what Boris,s supporter Lord Brownlow and others have invested in and expect to be big and it is supplying EV,s.

 

All about Financial Services, Hedge Funds and Car Manufacturers that borrow money and lend money & need the turn over of vehicles.

The Motor Trade / Used car market and financial services need the turn over of vehicles as well.

Pyramid selling really. 

18 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

With regard to the true situation with regard to EV car fires here in the UK, please follow these links, and you will see that there have been a lot of incidences and that as EV numbers are increasing all the time, the number of such events is growing rapidly.

  

On 21/08/2023 at 23:14, Graham Butcher said:

Point was that EV cars have been catching fire and until now this has been suppressed, even Teslas have had their issues but the EV industry have been doing their best to keep under cover because they didn't want the bad publicity.

So after finding all that evidence, are EV fire news/numbers suppressed or not? 

 

 

WRT battery replacement cost, this very early Model S owner after 8.5 years 160k miles, says his out of warranty refurbished battery replacement cost done by Tesla was £10k, ignoring the obvious maths error in the video. (£8100 + £1800 = £8900??) 

Looking on Autotrader, the car is worth about £30-35k. But his now has 4 more years of battery warranty. So worth the repair cost? 

 

 

Out of interest, how much would an engine rebuild or refurbished engine replacement cost at main dealer? 

 

 

Both from 1 year ago.

 

 

3 years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know nothing about Porsche Taycan but watching that 1st vid surely the 'Onboard Charger' is for AC charging like with other EV,s.

So i googled.

http://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/2022/products/porsche-taycan-on-board-charger-reduces-charging-times-30721.html

 

http://media.porsche.com/mediakit/taycan/en/porsche-taycan/das-laden

 

 

 

Edited 23 August, 20232 yr by toot

33 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Out of interest, how much would an engine rebuild or refurbished engine replacement cost at main dealer? 

 

Other than bad luck or bad design like several time bomb VAG engines you would not count on having to replace an engine at 160K miles which is a fantastic improvement compared to the cars that I drove in my youth which would definitely be on their second if not 3rd rebuild by then.

 

So its not really a valid comparison, what would be is how much the Tesla driver would have saved in servicing costs over that period and you could add on a sum for the odd repairs that an IC engined vehicle would likely have had like a new EGR, DMF, sensors etc.

34 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

  

So after finding all that evidence, are EV fire news/numbers suppressed or not? 

 

 

WRT battery replacement cost, this very early Model S owner after 8.5 years 160k miles, says his out of warranty refurbished battery replacement cost done by Tesla was £10k, ignoring the obvious maths error in the video. (£8100 + £1800 = £8900??) 

Looking on Autotrader, the car is worth about £30-35k. But his now has 4 more years of battery warranty. So worth the repair cost? 

 

 

Out of interest, how much would an engine rebuild or refurbished engine replacement cost at main dealer? 

TBH I don't know how much it would cost, but if looked after right it shouldn't need rebuilding. There are examples of diesels doing well over 250,000 miles without major work to them. 

European Taycans have always had the possibility of 22kW AC charging as an option. This is now available for retrofit. The first link is to an American site, they do not do 3-phase hence the 19kW weirdness.

There are examples of about 20% of the 3,000 Fabia vRS 1.4 TSI Twinchargers having rebuilt or replacement engines and even replacement engines replaced and some replaced again.

That also goes for the Twinchargers in VW,s, SEAT,s & Audi,s.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/337104-cave-vs-cthe

 

 

But then they were engine of the years over many years and new technology that VW never sorted but Volvo / Geely managed to when the CEO of VW North America bogged off after introducing Green Diesel Models / engines to the US, not getting the big boss job then going to Volvo, then GM and now a consultant for who ever.

Stefan Jacoby.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures

 

 

Edited 23 August, 20232 yr by toot

3 minutes ago, J.R. said:

So its not really a valid comparison, what would be is how much the Tesla driver would have saved in servicing costs over that period and you could add on a sum for the odd repairs that an IC engined vehicle would likely have had like a new EGR, DMF, sensors etc.

Well, I think it is a valid comparison, because the battery failure is not guaranteed in the same way an engine that has been poorly service is not guaranteed to fail after X miles. They are both probabilistic cost incurred due to X chance of component failure.

 

I included engine rebuild in addition to engine replacement for that reason, engines are made up of components that can be individually replaced.

 

There are also many cases where the battery is working perfectly fine after 8 years. My Nissan Leaf for example. Just like there are many cases where ICE works perfectly fine out of warranty.

You are rather stretching the limits of "many" there from a few in one case to the vast majority in the other.

23 minutes ago, J.R. said:

You are rather stretching the limits of "many" there from a few in one case to the vast majority in the other.

Indeed, vast majority of ICE works perfectly fine until car is beyond economical repair, as you said, these days it's usually not the engine.

Similarly, majority of EV's don't experience battery problem.

 

Of course, the true stats that we need for comparison is not available. But I suspect due to first-generation nature of early EV's, the failure rate will be higher than established and refined ICE.

 

Edited 23 August, 20232 yr by wyx087