11 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

 

The price per kwh is more about recouping capital expenditure for the charging unit which from I have seen working with Source London which my old firm owned, the higher powered EV charger units are well north of £10k a peice. So the EV charger owner companies can drop the price to say 39p a kWh and still cover the cost of the lecky and more but feel the need to charge 79 or 85p per kwh in some cases to try and get beyond the price of the installation before  average prices of public charging lecky is well below 50p a kWh as looks inevitable.  

 

The price per kw could also be artificially high because they can get away with it. It will help them show potential future profits based on those prices, increase the value of the company so the venture capitalists who funded the set up can make a killing when they sell up and move on to the next money maker?

I never cease to be amazed at people that do not understand averages. 

An average well below 50 pence for Public Charging in the UK as in AC & DC charging will be amazeballs. 

 

Private users not getting hit with the VAT that businesses can claim back would be something of a smart move. 

.............

''Us a cheaper charger". a very slow to add range to the car charger that is. 

Some are lucky to have a choice, and some might get landed with just those when really they want to get going someplace.

They might wait and wait to get one of those and those occupying them not return to their fully charged vehicle for hours or days.

(PHEV,s sitting that just need 2 hours on these chargers to save them 2.5  litres of petrol are parked on them all day.)

 

 

Edited 22 December, 20241 yr by Ootohere

2 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

I never cease to be amazed at people that do not understand averages. 

An average well below 50 pence for Public Charging in the UK as in AC & DC charging will be amazeballs. 

 

Private users not getting hit with the VAT that businesses can claim back would be something of a smart move. 

 

One of sunak's last appearance in parliament was to be asked a direct question as to when/if he would aglin the inequity of VAT on public charging at 20% but home charging at 5%.

He totally ignored the question. Typifies what the Cons stand for.  I hope Labour will do something on VAT, preferably on everything with VAT.  would be nice to back to 17.5%, then 15%, then 10% then 8%.  More excise type duties perhaps to be more targets. 

 

More variable excise duty on fuel so to maintain prie around the £1.50 mark and link to inflation, some countries do this, Belgium did it for both EV and ICE acouple of years ago....

  https://library.croneri.co.uk/wkus-gdn01-gdn01139924

Belgium Cuts Special Excise Duty On Fuel

On March 19, 2022, the Belgian Government announced a cut to the special excise duty on diesel and petrol.

The rate of tax is to be reduced by EUR175 per 1,000 litres including value-added tax, or EUR144.62 per 1,000 litres excluding VAT.

The Government has established a mechanism under which the tax rate will returned gradually to its pre-existing level as fuel prices decline, or by September 30, 2022, whichever is sooner.   The Government intends to provide fuel retailers with a partial refund of duty paid on existing stock, on request.

Earlier, from March 1, 2022, the Belgian Government cut the value-added tax rate on electricity from 21 percent to six percent, for four months.

@lol-lol  I take it you mean one of Sunak's last appearances as the Prime Minister. (Ex Chancellor as well, but who knew little about the real costs of living.)

He who never knew how to pay for fuel in someone else's car using a card. 

 

We have 'GB Energy' now, the most we can hope for is them not blowing billions of public money under their incompetence at running things.

A total lack of much experience in running anything among the elected politicians that form the Cabinet. or the leader of the Political Party.

He who hopefully is having his one and only Christmas at Downing Street.

Edited 22 December, 20241 yr by Ootohere

2 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@lol-lol  I take it you mean one of Sunak's last appearances as the Prime Minister. (Ex Chancellor as well, but who knew little about the real costs of living.)

He who never knew how to pay for fuel in someone else's car using a card. 

 

We have 'GB Energy' now, the most we can hope for is them not blowing billions of public money under their incompetence at running things.

A total lack of much experience in running anything among the elected politicians that form the Cabinet. or the leader of the Political Party.

He who hopefully is having his one and only Christmas at Downing Street.

 

Still, being based in Aberdeen you must surely be pleased with that choice?

 

We need to be wary of listening to too much right wing journalism else this talking down of Britian can become a self forefilling prophecy and we all lose.

 

Head Quartered in Aberdeen. Aberdeen hosting GB Energy. & 2 smaller sites in Edinburgh & Glasgow.

That is not going to win Labour the next Holyrood election. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 December, 20241 yr by Ootohere

54 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Head Quartered in Aberdeen. Aberdeen hosting GB Energy. & 2 smaller sites in Edinburgh & Glasgow.

That is not going to win Labour the next Holyrood election. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scotland is the Energy nation of Britian if not Europe just logical.

 

That is as long as the Atlantic Gulf stream does not switch off and drop its temperature by 20c on average and turn it in to a climate like Northern Quebec.

 

Crown Estate was different in Scotland already from RoUK. 

http://crownestatescotland.com

No point the Westminster Government thinking they can do as decades ago with the Oil & Gas.  Be the tuck shop monitor, or keeper of the kitty and just fill their own pockets.

 

Then as far as the Sea Bed and licences. geology etc etc, all already done.  Floating, Fixed, Pipeline & Cable locations. 

The Energy Companies know what they want and where.

As it is the National Grid is the fly in the Ointment, and there is a time when Scotland will be independent from the RoUK and not just devolved.

 

GB Energy should be getting on with Energy Security plans from generating electricity south of the Land Mass of Scotland and the waters coastal or further offshore.

Time to get the Small Modular Nuclear plants built, and the substations and pylons up in England and not think that jobs created in Scotland means that the public are putting up with stuff without cheaper power so that the South can have electricity and transmissions underground. 

Edited 22 December, 20241 yr by Ootohere

2 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Crown Estate was different in Scotland already from RoUK.

Then as far as the Sea Bed and licences. geology etc etc, all already done.  Floating, Fixed, Pipeline & Cable locations. 

The Energy Companies know what they want and where.

As it is the National Grid is the fly in the Ointment, and there is a time when Scotland will be independent from the RoUK and not just devolved.

 

GB Energy should be getting on with Energy Security plans from generating electricity south of the Land Mass of Scotland and the waters coastal or further offshore.

Time to get the Small Modular Nuclear plants built, and the substations and pylons up in England and not think that jobs created in Scotland means that the public are putting up with stuff without cheaper power so that the South can have electricity and transmissions underground. 

 

One of my roles in HMCE was receiver of wreck which as the Crown legally empowered for the shore etc could be quite interesting.

 

Though I seem to be mainly dealing with dead marine life and sorting out it's disposal. The UK offshore tens of thousands of square miles are massively rich in tidal and wind which should bring down Energy prices. Sooner Energy prices are decoupled from gas the better acknowledging the UK has passed from the gas/hydrocarbon age to the renewables age. Greg Jackson for Energy Zsar.

 

 

Changed Tesla for a Porsche US

Bloke buys a repoed Tesla P90D for under $11,000 

 

https://www.facebook.com/SamcracAuto/videos/1005627410477337/ 

 

2 hours ago, Lee01 said:

Bloke buys a repoed Tesla P90D for under $11,000 

 

https://www.facebook.com/SamcracAuto/videos/1005627410477337/ 

 

That sure was a lucky gamble he got there.

Merry Christmas everyone, I hope you all have a cracker of Christmas.

 

9 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

The price per kw could also be artificially high because they can get away with it. It will help them show potential future profits based on those prices, increase the value of the company so the venture capitalists who funded the set up can make a killing when they sell up and move on to the next money maker?

Take Tesla supercharger as best case scenario, the per kWh price is always going to be higher than slower destination AC charging.

Then remove Tesla's CapEx backing through sales of vehicles, load it all onto per kWh price. How much do you get?

I bet it's pretty close what they are charging now.

 

  

11 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

preferring to be at home with the family and having a Christmas tipple or two.

Make it into a family activity

I've never visited Gridserve's Electric Forecourt. My very old parents are looking to buy their last ever vehicle, profile fits EV perfectly. A trip there and a demo of public charging.

4 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Take Tesla supercharger as best case scenario, the per kWh price is always going to be higher than slower destination AC charging.

Then remove Tesla's CapEx backing through sales of vehicles, load it all onto per kWh price. How much do you get?

I bet it's pretty close what they are charging now.

 

  

Make it into a family activity

I've never visited Gridserve's Electric Forecourt. My very old parents are looking to buy their last ever vehicle, profile fits EV perfectly. A trip there and a demo of public charging.

 

Not just half price as I heard but Free charging at Xmas Day.  

60% Discount today the 23rd and 80% discount tomorrow.

 

No competition response from diesel/petrol fuel station I hear yet.

 

 

 

No, but supermarkets are selling vegetables as a loss leader.  Selling for less than they bought them for and they bought them damn cheap and the growers / producers were not getting much of a profit from them. 

 

Giving away electricity cheap or free which is not expensive in the first place to charge vehicles is taking the p1th on those that might not be able to have electricity on because it is 25 pence a unit or so, and even £1.50 for the day is too much for them & a standing charge. 

 

The system is crap.   Maybe use your free or cheap electricity and your EV and go help a local charity and give a lift to people that are maybe getting a Christmas meal provided someplace or do home deliveries if those are being done.

No insurance implications in your vehicle already insured foe business use and you are not doing for gain or reward.  Just out of the goodness of your heart, and at no cost..

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Not just half price as I heard but Free charging at Xmas Day.  

60% Discount today the 23rd and 80% discount tomorrow.

 

No competition response from diesel/petrol fuel station I hear yet.

 

 

 

I don't think that is likely to happen as Big Oil does not have to try and entice people to use their product or services. 

Really this should be in the Social divide thread but here it is.     (I think the Poll Tax was the best idea, and should be reintroduced, charge everyone, not based on a property value.)

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I don't think that is likely to happen as Big Oil does not have to try and entice people to use their product or services. 

 

In China where oil fuel demand is on a ever increasing slope downwards due to new EVs coming on to the market it will be interesting to see how fuel prices go.

 

The UK looks like it will try and use VED to replace the lost £25B of income. I hear many car makers are raising ICE prices to discourage them being bought and make EVs look even better value.

 

Interesting times ahead.

 

33 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

I hear many car makers are raising ICE prices to discourage them being bought and make EVs look even better value.

That would follow the usual strategy of the UK car market - rather than decreasing prices to encourage sales (as almost every other marketplace does) they increase prices.

 

With all the predictions of loss of business confidence in 2025 and even some analysts using the word stagflation this doesn't seem like the smartest move by car makers.

3 hours ago, Ootohere said:

Really this should be in the Social divide thread but here it is.     (I think the Poll Tax was the best idea, and should be reintroduced, charge everyone, not based on a property value.)

 

 

 

I agree with everything he said, and I have had similar discussions with others in this thread who are just like the EV owners he mentions who constantly have a go at him for doing it all wrong, should be home charging, etc. I have had this feeling for a long time that what with the advent of 15 minute cities etc, that they really don't want the average person to be able to travel very far at all and that the great plan is for the poor to be heavily taxed, have their freedom taken away from them and that basically only the elite in society will be able to afford to run a car and have the ability to effectively be free to go and do whatever they want.

 

The essential workers that we all depend on every day are very rarely from the elites, and yet it is these people who are being squeezed till they bleed, I could go on but I know that I shall get a barrage of negative comments from those that cannot see the overall bigger picture.

Edited 23 December, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

7 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

No competition response from diesel/petrol fuel station I hear yet.

 

 

 

 

Why should there be...   There's a more limited EV charging market than for petrol stations and let's be honest you'd be a pretty sad individual to take your car out to charge it on Christmas day!!!

The wholesalers keep being allowed to have diesel artificially high priced.

35 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Why should there be...   There's a more limited EV charging market than for petrol stations and let's be honest you'd be a pretty sad individual to take your car out to charge it on Christmas day!!!

 

I will be passing Frankley. Wanted to test my new cars charging speed but also first for me on Gridserve which is the company with the best coverage at service stations. Just a 10 or 15 minute charge probably but I am in Stoke, then Worcester then South Wales all in 2 days. 

What is better than 8.5p per kwh at home is free public charging ie cost to fill up and get up to 260 miles range either £5 or nothing.

 

Still think the gentle charging is better for than battery so will not go below 7% or probably above 90% for the sake of being kind to the traction battery.

 

Interesting to compared an EV to an ICE car in monthly running. Decent newish car is going to cost £400 a month upwards but other costs are tiny for the non mad performance EVs for energy, insurance, services and tyres i find.

 

@Ootohere I can't see that changing anytime soon, either, as it would be counterproductive to their net-zero strategy. When you consider that there is far less processing put into the production of diesel when compared against petrol, and was really prior to the surge towards diesel powered cars, considered more as a waste by product with limited commercial value, then the whole thing with it being the more expensive fuel, a complete mockery.

Another issue with diesel powered cars is that emit 20% less CO2 per litre than the equivalent Petrol powered vehicle, and given that you get way more MPG with diesel that means for the same journey of say 100 miles, a petrol car produces way more CO2 then diesel does over the same distance, thus making the whole net-zero policy flawed when diesel is being penalised, which was after all one of the main reasons for the governments global push a few years ago towards diesel as a motive power, as it drastically reduced the CO2 levels being held up as the major cause of global warming. Makes you wonder if the current global warming is the result of more petrol powered cars on the roads then diesel because of the way diesel is being portrayed as being evil?

 

Yes, we know that diesels produce NOX, but then so do petrol cars, and also I have repeatedly stated that the air quality has improved massively with the introduction of DPFs etc over the last few years and is still being improved upon all the time and will, I have no doubt, be considerably less than petrol if ICE cars continue.

 

This chart taken from the UK Governments own sources shows just how much diesel has cleaned its act on the NOX side over the last few years.

 

Edited 23 December, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher