On 25/01/2022 at 11:32, nta16 said:

Fair enough but what about the other systems on the car?

 

It' is accepted that @Auxiliary need not worry about disconnecting the battery and discharging wiring as this will not cause any damage. 

 

I'd take that opportunity to recharge the battery too, giving it a long, slow, low recharge possibly having to do that indoors if it's cold weather unless the charger can compensate for this with a winter setting, always a good idea to have plenty of battery power this time of year.

 

After running the car for a while I'd plug in a relevant machine to see what fresh codes appears but I have no idea what level of scan tool @Auxiliary has.

 

The car has done about 170,000 miles, had a judder and stubbles in 4th at about 20mph, personally if that's the total of the problem I would not be driving it at 20 mph in 4th and certainly avoid doing so, it is winter, unless there is more to the problem or it gets worse I would not worry about it until the weather improves unless I had access to a heated garage.  Perhaps there is too much concern with getting the last nth degree of mpg out of the car - and that might preclude going about 20 mph in 4th, driving it through the gears more briskly might well improve the mpg.

 

Auxiliary has a selection of suggestions and information and probably a preference as to which are more preferable, and no doubt other viewers too.  😊

I know it's not preferably to drive in 4th at those speeds, I'm talking about provoking the issue to get symptoms. I can happen at a large roundabout of the motorway, I usually stay in 4th as long as possible to just coast and watch traffic. I get a small opening and other cars come rushing my way, I try to accelerate, and we got the problem. However, today I tried to provoke the problem when the engine just got warm and no issue. 

On 25/01/2022 at 11:32, nta16 said:

  

 

On 24/01/2022 at 22:00, Wino said:

Don't be worried, but don't expect it to do much either.

Your engine ECU has no permanent power feed; so every time you take the keys out of the ignition it is unpowered just as much as if you disconnected the battery.

 

Have you thought about looking at the misfire info that VCDS may be able to tell you about, as I mentioned upthread?

 

 

I also suspect misfires, due to bad ignition coils. My best guess

On 25/01/2022 at 12:21, xman said:

 

Well there's your problem I think.

 

Treat it to some new spark plugs. They cost virtually nothing, about £10 for a set of Bosch plugs here on the UK. At the same time inspect the old set for evidence of an individual cylinder issue, e.g. oil deposits or difference in appearance.

 

What sort of tools do you need in order to do this? 

On 25/01/2022 at 17:04, AnnoyingPentium said:

 

I don't recommend this, even if it's possible. Keeping it in 3rd gear in a 20 is more recommended as the engine is less likely to labour depending on gearing.

 

If it's a petrol then an optimum match between engine revs and selected gear is critical. Well, it is with any car, but your petrols are more "rev happy".

 

In short, certainly because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

Hope this helps.

 

I do understand that 4th is way too heavy for the engine at 20 mph, however i feel like the car should be able to handle it form a safety perspective. 

On 25/01/2022 at 17:44, nta16 said:

@Auxiliaryobviously you can follow whatever information / advice / opinion you want and if it excludes mine there are no bad feelings from me about that.

 

Checking with a scan tool is always a good idea as long as the error codes and not just taken only as the absolute answer but more often as a starting point of diagnosis.

 

@xmanhas put about checking and/or changing the spark plugs, IIRC it is not recommended to clean then now (other than a blow-out run perhaps).

 

I always where appropriate like to clean the throttle body (MAF).

 

I think most(?) would agree that the car's litres/hour (and litres/100 km) may not be that accurate so only taken as a very general guide.

 

I think it is not right to say doing as in the video I posted is the same as removing the key from the ignition, removing the key from the ignition does not then require the electric windows synchronisation (very easy to do), set the clock and put radio code in.  ETA: I was wrong, this is not required in practice, see below -"A manual entry of the code is normally not necessary". 

 

It is right to say doing the 'battery reset' may not help much or fully resolve as it depends on what the fault actually is and even if it does clear if there is an ongoing fault the issue will return but it is free and very easy to do and if it does little or nothing you have lost little or nothing.  If you take the opportunity to charge the battery whilst disconnected you do gain that.

 

There are lots of videos /threads /posts on this all over the internet, the following is VW specific but not as tidily illustrated  All the best to you. - 

 

 

I will definitely take this into consideration. As mentioned before in this post before, somebody stated that a fully charged battery might help. My understanding is that the battery, when the engine is on, does nothing. The alternator takes care of all  the electronic devices etc, and charging the battery at the same time. 

10 hours ago, xman said:

 

I am rebooting this thread as its gone off into tiresome irrelevance.

 

The OP has 12-13 year old HTP 12v BZG that has done almost 170,000 miles. That is an average of 14-15k per year. Not sure if this is typical of the last 2 years, but if it is then its 2years/30,000 miles since the plugs were changed

 

From personal experience with my BZG, plugs are only good for around 30,000 miles by which time the gap is somewhat larger than optimum. It comes as no surprise that the first symptom of worn plugs are occasional misfires and rough running.

 

So change the plugs!

 

All the chat about instant consumption is irrelevant, it will jump about if the car is not firing on all 3 cylinders cleanly. If you turn your lights off of course the consumption will drop. In the UK, we don't have litre consumption displayed but mpg which goes --- when idling, but I worked out by other means that my idle consumption was around 0.7 litre per hour give or take a bit.

 

So change the plugs, examine the old plugs. You will be able to see if your engine is healthy or starting to burn oil or running rich/weak or one cylinder is markedly different to another. If they are simply worn, i.e if electrodes worn and/or gap is large its important you change them as the elevated ignition voltage that results will often kill the ignition coils next.

 

Very interesting quote, I will replace the spark plugs and also upload an image of them here for you to see their condition. 

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Auxiliary said:

 

I do understand that 4th is way too heavy for the engine at 20 mph, however i feel like the car should be able to handle it from a safety perspective. 

 

Yes I understand what you are saying. However, you'll be causing it to struggle a bit which may cause issues as well.

 

Anyway, hope that helps.

46 minutes ago, Auxiliary said:

I know it's not preferably to drive in 4th at those speeds, I'm talking about provoking the issue to get symptoms. I can happen at a large roundabout of the motorway, I usually stay in 4th as long as possible to just coast and watch traffic. I get a small opening and other cars come rushing my way, I try to accelerate, and we got the problem. However, today I tried to provoke the problem when the engine just got warm and no issue.

Sorry I misunderstood I thought you were over-concerned about l/100km.

 

What speed do you coast at on a large roundabout of the motorway?

 

 

47 minutes ago, Auxiliary said:

I also suspect misfires, due to bad ignition coils. My best guess

Using an appropriate scan tool you should not need to guess too much.

 

 

54 minutes ago, Auxiliary said:

What sort of tools do you need in order to do this? 

The appropriate spark plug socket or tool, three will be videos.  I thought you serviced the car last November, did you only attend to some bits on the engine?

 

 

47 minutes ago, Auxiliary said:

As mentioned before in this post before, somebody stated that a fully charged battery might help.

Always helps to have a fully charged battery particularly during winter in a cold country.

 

 

48 minutes ago, Auxiliary said:

My understanding is that the battery, when the engine is on, does nothing. The alternator takes care of all  the electronic devices etc, and charging the battery at the same time.

That depends on how much electricity the car is using at the time, it could even be that the battery needs to help out so is being discharged rather than charged.  Think of all the electric items you use when it is cold, snowing and dark, also think of how much battery reserve you might be using up when the engine is not running but you are still in the car.

 

I do not mean to be rude, and bear in mind we all were once, are you quite new to driving and/or car ownership?

 

My 2009 BZG engined Fabia is perfectly happy at 20mph in 4th, and even can pootle at 25mph in 5th without any signs of distress or juddering though 4th is probably more economical. Obviously more get up and go in the lower gears as max torque is developed at 3100rpm.

 

The fabia is geared at around 20mph per 1000 rpm in 5th.

 

HTP stands for High Torque Performance, referring to the highish torque at low rpm. No need for high revs to pull away from a standstill for instance.

7 hours ago, xman said:

My 2009 BZG engined Fabia is perfectly happy at 20mph in 4th, and even can pootle at 25mph in 5th without any signs of distress or juddering though 4th is probably more economical. Obviously more get up and go in the lower gears as max torque is developed at 3100rpm.

 

The fabia is geared at around 20mph per 1000 rpm in 5th.

 

HTP stands for High Torque Performance, referring to the highish torque at low rpm. No need for high revs to pull away from a standstill for instance.

 

Thank you for clearing that up. I wasn't sure if there was much of a difference in gearing between the Mk1 BME and the Mk2 BZG. Obviously there is as mine can sit in 4th at 20 but it sits at around 1,100rpm and therefore struggles. 

Edited 27 January, 20224 yr by AnnoyingPentium

7 hours ago, xman said:

My 2009 BZG engined Fabia is perfectly happy at 20mph in 4th, and even can pootle at 25mph in 5th without any signs of distress or juddering though 4th is probably more economical. Obviously more get up and go in the lower gears as max torque is developed at 3100rpm.

 

The fabia is geared at around 20mph per 1000 rpm in 5th.

 

HTP stands for High Torque Performance, referring to the highish torque at low rpm. No need for high revs to pull away from a standstill for instance.

We had a car geared at 16 mph/1,000 rpm in 5th so I do understand and I wasn't thinking of Dragtrip  starts (I used to spectate at Santa Pod many decades back) and we've had three pots at 599cc turbo, 657cc turbo, 659cc turbo and I had a 997cc non-turbo.

 

It depends on how quickly someone expects the car to pick up from 22mph in 4th giving 40-60% on the accelerator pedal, I'd want a near empty motorway roundabout for that, but it shouldn't cough, suggesting hopefully just a bit more servicing needed. 

 

The Auxiliary has near enough 170k-miles on the clock with perhaps a minor DIY service last November and a scan last summer that only showed something about air-con and there is a full service history.  Other than that the car's history has yet to be told, I'm always sceptical about what a full service history means as often when presented they are not very detailed or comprehensive and often done in tardy stages.  Taking average annual mileage can mean so little on an older car particularly if there's been more than one owner.

 

When getting an old car I always suggest carrying out a staggered-staged fully service check of the whole vehicle in between driving it, engine is mid-priority and you won't be surprised that the battery is higher priority, after all safety stuff like brakes, steering, suspension (all three include the tyres), lights and visibility.  But of course I understand this type of thing has gone out of fashion and people just want to drive the car and deal with matters as they arise.

 

Most servicing, even computer side, still boils down to clean and lubricate, in the case of spark plugs now if it's not a blow-out run it's replace.

   

18 hours ago, Auxiliary said:

 

What sort of tools do you need in order to do this? 

i have got this to help remove the coil pack, there are other options such as using a flat screwdriver but using the proper tolls is highly recommended.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393420043182?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1LsDiplU3QaufDOu_l0WSZQ27&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=393420043182&targetid=1596500855709&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=1006858&poi=&campaignid=15278604175&mkgroupid=135429446288&rlsatarget=pla-1596500855709&abcId=9300698&merchantid=114966488&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImMSYrafS9QIViLHtCh0fJAWzEAQYAyABEgJXv_D_BwE

Edited 27 January, 20224 yr by froggy8

On 27/01/2022 at 09:57, nta16 said:

We had a car geared at 16 mph/1,000 rpm in 5th so I do understand and I wasn't thinking of Dragtrip  starts (I used to spectate at Santa Pod many decades back) and we've had three pots at 599cc turbo, 657cc turbo, 659cc turbo and I had a 997cc non-turbo.

 

It depends on how quickly someone expects the car to pick up from 22mph in 4th giving 40-60% on the accelerator pedal, I'd want a near empty motorway roundabout for that, but it shouldn't cough, suggesting hopefully just a bit more servicing needed. 

 

The Auxiliary has near enough 170k-miles on the clock with perhaps a minor DIY service last November and a scan last summer that only showed something about air-con and there is a full service history.  Other than that the car's history has yet to be told, I'm always sceptical about what a full service history means as often when presented they are not very detailed or comprehensive and often done in tardy stages.  Taking average annual mileage can mean so little on an older car particularly if there's been more than one owner.

 

When getting an old car I always suggest carrying out a staggered-staged fully service check of the whole vehicle in between driving it, engine is mid-priority and you won't be surprised that the battery is higher priority, after all safety stuff like brakes, steering, suspension (all three include the tyres), lights and visibility.  But of course I understand this type of thing has gone out of fashion and people just want to drive the car and deal with matters as they arise.

 

Most servicing, even computer side, still boils down to clean and lubricate, in the case of spark plugs now if it's not a blow-out run it's replace.

   

I am going to replace the spark plugs, if the problem is still there, could it be the MAF sensor? Or the ignition coils? 

On 27/01/2022 at 09:57, nta16 said:

We had a car geared at 16 mph/1,000 rpm in 5th so I do understand and I wasn't thinking of Dragtrip  starts (I used to spectate at Santa Pod many decades back) and we've had three pots at 599cc turbo, 657cc turbo, 659cc turbo and I had a 997cc non-turbo.

 

It depends on how quickly someone expects the car to pick up from 22mph in 4th giving 40-60% on the accelerator pedal, I'd want a near empty motorway roundabout for that, but it shouldn't cough, suggesting hopefully just a bit more servicing needed. 

 

The Auxiliary has near enough 170k-miles on the clock with perhaps a minor DIY service last November and a scan last summer that only showed something about air-con and there is a full service history.  Other than that the car's history has yet to be told, I'm always sceptical about what a full service history means as often when presented they are not very detailed or comprehensive and often done in tardy stages.  Taking average annual mileage can mean so little on an older car particularly if there's been more than one owner.

 

When getting an old car I always suggest carrying out a staggered-staged fully service check of the whole vehicle in between driving it, engine is mid-priority and you won't be surprised that the battery is higher priority, after all safety stuff like brakes, steering, suspension (all three include the tyres), lights and visibility.  But of course I understand this type of thing has gone out of fashion and people just want to drive the car and deal with matters as they arise.

 

Most servicing, even computer side, still boils down to clean and lubricate, in the case of spark plugs now if it's not a blow-out run it's replace.

   

 

Do you know anybody with similar problems, symptoms? 

29 minutes ago, Auxiliary said:

I am going to replace the spark plugs, if the problem is still there, could it be the MAF sensor? Or the ignition coils? 

Replacing the spark plugs is inexpensive - but always buy good quality - so perhaps worth doing if only so that you know for sure than new plugs have been fitted and when and that they are the correct type in good condition.

 

But it is no good just guessing at what might be wrong, anyone here can make suggestions but those can only be based on the information you give and even then only you are seeing and experiencing the car.

 

As I put if the car is a fairly recent purchase then a good start is always a service or service check at least of the whole car.  For the engine checking or changing things like the engine oil and filter, air filter, spark plugs is a good base.

 

With modern cars a (good level of) scan tool is often really need to point to where the start of the diagnosis should start but often that is just the start.  If the scan tool gives an error code(s) to a part you need to interpret this information as it does not necessary mean that the part needs changing and that will resolve the issue.  Sometimes it may be that simple but often it is not.

 

Once you have removed the current spark plugs a (clear hi-res) photo of their condition may (or may not) be helpful but obviously driving the car with the new spark plugs will given you more information.  If you are lucky that might be the solution, fingers crossed for you, good luck.

 

28 minutes ago, Auxiliary said:

Do you know anybody with similar problems, symptoms?

No sorry I do not but lots of cars can have judders for lots of reasons, many other posters here will know of common issues for your model and engine, or just generally.

 

Edited 30 January, 20224 yr by nta16
reread previous post

18 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Replacing the spark plugs is inexpensive - but always buy good quality - so perhaps worth doing if only so that you know for sure than new plugs have been fitted and when and that they are the correct type in good condition.

 

But it is no good just guessing at what might be wrong, anyone here can make suggestions but those can only be based on the information you give and even then only you are seeing and experiencing the car.

 

As I put if the car is a fairly recent purchase then a good start is always a service or service check at least of the whole car.  For the engine checking or changing things like the engine oil and filter, air filter, spark plugs is a good base.

 

With modern cars a (good level of) scan tool is often really need to point to where the start of the diagnosis should start but often that is just the start.  If the scan tool gives an error code(s) to a part you need to interpret this information as it does not necessary mean that the part needs changing and that will resolve the issue.  Sometimes it may be that simple but often it is not.

 

Once you have removed the current spark plugs a (clear hi-res) photo of their condition may (or may not) be helpful but obviously driving the car with the new spark plugs will given you more information.  If you are lucky that might be the solution, fingers crossed for you, good luck.

 

No sorry I do not but lots of cars can have judders for lots of reasons, many other posters here will know of common issues for your model and engine, or just generally.

 

 

My car has the original Skoda service stamp in my service book. Every service has been done when it is supposed to be done. The last stamp was made by another car service firm, not Skoda original. And the very last by me. The spark plugs, replaced 2 years ago. 

A judder at idle might (or might not) be effected or exasperated by other items and systems cutting in and out on the car so have you tried the free, quick and easy battery disconnect and systems discharge as detailed in those two videos,.

 

 

34 minutes ago, Auxiliary said:

My car has the original Skoda service stamp in my service book. Every service has been done when it is supposed to be done. The last stamp was made by another car service firm, not Skoda original. And the very last by me. The spark plugs, replaced 2 years ago. 

That is good - but car services now often mean very little as they often only cover really little more than changing the engine oil and filter with the rest as mainly visual checks.

 

I have no idea as I do not have the information you have, your car may well be one that has had a full and proper timely service and maintenance on the whole car, proof of that may be lots of paper for lots of servicing and maintenance with your car's details on, stamps in books tend to tell very little.

 

Your car seems to be be in very reasonable condition and has lasted about 170,000 miles so that says something.

 

Does your servicing information include when things were done like the brake fluid changes, (tyre changes, though not relevant other than current set), brakes, coolant change, (previous spark plugs), air filters, cabin filters, air-con work, (battery, if changed, though not that relevant other than current one) and other information.

 

How long have you owned the car, did you have the spare plugs fitted two years ago?

 

Edited 30 January, 20224 yr by nta16

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