Hi fellow Skoda owers,

 

The car in question is a Fabia 2009 with the 1.2 htp engine, BZG. When I'm idling after the car has been running at operating temperature for 20+ minutes, it judders sometimes. It feels like a small jump like the engine coughs silently however the idle speed is not affected by the juddering. Also, what is a healthy number of instant consumption when the engine is at operating temperature and idling? Mine usually displays 0.6 l/h. However, when I switch off the low beam it goes down to 0.5 l/h. 

 

When the judder is occurring, the instant idle consumption typically goes from 0.3-0.5 l/h, a more unsteady. 

 

What is a healthy number for the instant fuel consumption at idle? I'm guessing the cause of the judder is bad ignition coils.

 

Sorry for my poor English. 

Most aging engines jump at idle, please try and ignore the MFA fuel consumption reading, particularly at idle, it is uselessly inaccurate. There's nothing wrong with your car, it's just getting older.

Good to know it has gone far around, 168 750 miles.  With full service history. Do you think it's possible to get 220 000 miles with this engine?

Just now, Auxiliary said:

Good to know it has gone far around, 168 750 miles.  With full service history. Do you think it's possible to get 220 000 miles with this engine?

 

No, it's a POS.

Check the stiff vacuum pipe from the brake servo to the inlet manifold, it also has a non return valve half way. Look for splits at all the joints.

 

56 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 

No, it's a POS.

 

BZG is IMO a pretty decent engine, 3 pot HTP engines get a lot of unjustified criticism, but the real reason is because they were cheap bargain motors, a large number of owners are cheapskates or just plain ignorant and never look after them, service them on time or correctly. Oil changes are frequently ignored, incorrect oil used etc. A death sentence for any ICE

 

At least the BZG has a decent roller cam chain instead of the disastrous inverted tooth chain abomination of the EA111 tsi series.

 

I think only the most well serviced examples will see over 150,000 miles and 200,000 miles would be exceptional. Don't think I've heard of any HTP engine reaching that mileage.

 

Any engine or gearbox can of course be repaired/refurbished but most will get scrapped prematurely when major issues occur as either it is deemed uneconomical or the owner just wants a change or doesn't want to get involved or take a risk as there are many cowboy garages around ready to rob you blind with shoddy and overpriced work.

 

My 2009 fabia has a BZG engine on 102,000 miles. It is by far the easiest and cheapest Skoda in our fleet (currently fabia mk2, octavia mk2, superb mk3) to service and maintain.

 

 

Edited 16 January, 20224 yr by xman

So is that "yes it won't do 220k" or "no it won't do 220k"? 

39 minutes ago, xman said:

and 200,000 miles would be exceptional. Don't think I've heard of any HTP engine reaching that mileage.

 

There is (or was) a 200k one on AutoTrader. A Mk1, however.

 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110238808765

19 minutes ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

 

There is (or was) a 200k one on AutoTrader. A Mk1, however.

 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110238808765

 

Blimey, I'd be amazed if it's the original engine, especially on LPG.

39 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

So is that "yes it won't do 220k" or "no it won't do 220k"? 

Time will tell...😁

32 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 

Blimey, I'd be amazed if it's the original engine, especially on LPG.

 

Agreed. It was originally listed for 2 grand when I first encountered it on my trawls through the bottom of the barrel of AutoTrader. I couldn't help but laugh at the listing.

21 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

No, it's a POS.

Impossible?

21 hours ago, xman said:

Check the stiff vacuum pipe from the brake servo to the inlet manifold, it also has a non return valve half way. Look for splits at all the joints.

 

BZG is IMO a pretty decent engine, 3 pot HTP engines get a lot of unjustified criticism, but the real reason is because they were cheap bargain motors, a large number of owners are cheapskates or just plain ignorant and never look after them, service them on time or correctly. Oil changes are frequently ignored, incorrect oil used etc. A death sentence for any ICE

 

At least the BZG has a decent roller cam chain instead of the disastrous inverted tooth chain abomination of the EA111 tsi series.

 

I think only the most well serviced examples will see over 150,000 miles and 200,000 miles would be exceptional. Don't think I've heard of any HTP engine reaching that mileage.

 

Any engine or gearbox can of course be repaired/refurbished but most will get scrapped prematurely when major issues occur as either it is deemed uneconomical or the owner just wants a change or doesn't want to get involved or take a risk as there are many cowboy garages around ready to rob you blind with shoddy and overpriced work.

 

My 2009 fabia has a BZG engine on 102,000 miles. It is by far the easiest and cheapest Skoda in our fleet (currently fabia mk2, octavia mk2, superb mk3) to service and maintain.

 

It says that here the bzg engine can use pretty much any engine oil, https://www.car.info/sv-se/skoda/fabia/fabia-combi-12-24070200/specs

What is the correct engine oil? Also isnt it better to use a denser oil for a more worn engine?

 

 

22 minutes ago, Auxiliary said:

It says that here the bzg engine can use pretty much any engine oil, https://www.car.info/sv-se/skoda/fabia/fabia-combi-12-24070200/specs

What is the correct engine oil? Also isnt it better to use a denser oil for a more worn engine?

 

That list is rubbish.

The correct oil is one that meets VW spec 502.00 or 504.00. Where there is choice of viscosity choose whatever suits your climate or operating conditions.

 

What does 502 and 504 mean?

30 minutes ago, Auxiliary said:

What does 502 and 504 mean?

 

Look on the can, or check the manufacturer spec sheet. Somewhere will be

 

Meets specification VW502.00 or 504.00

 

Or Better still

 

Approved to specification VW502.00 or 504.00

 

Here are just a few oils that meet the required specification, there are many more, check with with preffered supplier

 

vw502.00

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-746-vw-50200-engine-oil.aspx

 

vw504.00

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-749-vw-50400-engine-oil.aspx

 

VW 507.00, VW 504.00, etc: Volkswagen Motor Oil Specifications Explained

 

 

Edited 17 January, 20224 yr by xman

5 hours ago, Auxiliary said:

Impossible?

 

The valve guides and stem seals will wear out first which means oil consumption, cat damage and emissions test failure.

19 hours ago, Auxiliary said:

Also isnt it better to use a denser oil for a more worn engine?

That will only make the engine have to work harder, you want the correct grade (or weight) and type of oil suitable to your engine and its use and the environment (temperature) the vehicle is used in.

 

Not all oils of the same grade are the same and the grades are a range anyway - a good oil is a good oil and a better oil is a better oil.

 

Regular timely oil and filter changes and other service and maintenance (air filter, plugs, cleaning/replacement of sensors) on the whole car as well as the engine and it's type of use (and abuse and neglect) will help determine how how long the engine will continue to run and how well.

 

A 2009 engine with 168, 750 miles, it may be too late to be able to get many more tens of, or, thousands of miles on it but that does depends on its history.  A full service history means very little because it depends on the extent and quality of the servicing and rarely includes full maintenance and repairs, let alone even full servicing.  To many people a full service is just an engine oil and filter change.

 

If the car has been well maintained all its life then continuing to do so with good quality engine oil and filter and all other servicing,  maintenance and repairs may be worthwhile and will extended its life further but if not then a different approach might be better.

 

Edited 18 January, 20224 yr by nta16
wrong word used

Standard 504.00 oil is 5w-30 suitable for most european climates.

Standard 502.00 is what the BZG was factory filled with and is probably what it was designed in mind for and is usually 10w-40. But lots are 5W-30 nowadays.

 

Once your car starts consuming oil, (as opposed to leaking oil), there is nothing you can do. Heavier grades may temporarily reduce the rate of consumption but will accelerate the wear.

 

Valve stem/guide wear is a symptom of poor lubrication, poor/wrong oil but usually neglected overdue oil changes.

 

HTP engines are not really suitable for variable/flexible/extended service regimes. Change Oil at 9,300 miles(15,000km)/1 year max. If doing mainly short journeys where oil rarely reaches working temperature for a decent length of time is classed as harsh operating condition so you should change oil sooner.

 

17 minutes ago, xman said:

Standard 502.00 is what the BZG was factory filled with and is probably what it was designed in mind for and is usually 10w-40

Guess you meant 5W40?

37 minutes ago, Wino said:

Guess you meant 5W40?

Yes, ok I stand corrected.

 

Our Fabia's original 12-valve motor made it to just over 175000 miles, with in all honesty a driver with very little mechanical sympathy during our ownership.  I've yet to strip it down to confirm, but my impression is that it was the bottom end that wore out, and that would fit with it being driven without great care about which gear was actually appropriate at any given time.  

Edit: it also had a serious clutch fault during its last months, that I was very slow to understand, which can only have hastened its demise.

 

Obviously if it's given good oil regularly, and not driven on too many short journeys where it doesn't get up to temperature, it will help any engine last longer.

 

I suspect there is a fault to be found on yours @Auxiliary; do you have VCDS? The freeware version should let you look at measuring blocks of the engine ECU where you could perhaps scrutinise the misfire counters for each cylinder and see if the numbers increase with the judders, which seems likely.  I can't remember if they give you an individual cylinder breakdown of that stuff, but I suspect so?

It might be useful to see if they are random or focussed on one cylinder. (Or there aren't any at all)

 

 

 

Edited 18 January, 20224 yr by Wino

Sorry I cant help with your engine, I have an AQW.

 

I can confirm however that even mine, after getting rid of all vacuum leaks, putting Castrol Magnatec, cleaning the MAF, cleaning the intake, new air filter, new fuel pump, new fuel filter etc. it still occasionally judders for just a fraction of a second at idle, randomly. I guess its a feature not a bug, since it is very smooth otherwise. You forget its on!

Edited 18 January, 20224 yr by xyzal

@Auxiliary if your Fabia is new to you or fairly recent then you might want to put a scan tool on it as suggested and I always suggest carrying out a rolling staged fully service/check of the whole car including anything that has been recorded as done in the last appropriate number of years.  Fairly easy to check things like engine oil and filter, air filter, spark plugs, cabin filter and to see if the inside of air intakes and such like and any necessary sensor(s) are clean.

 

The engine of course is not one of the most important components or system on the car, more important are brakes, steering, suspension (tyres are in all three of these), electrical items to lights and visibility.

 

It might be that all is fine already but it pays to check.

 

Personally I would not put too much faith in any factory onboard fuel consumption measurements.

 

Good luck - and your English is better than mine and I am born and bred English.

  

On 18/01/2022 at 17:22, Wino said:

Our Fabia's original 12-valve motor made it to just over 175000 miles, with in all honesty a driver with very little mechanical sympathy during our ownership.  I've yet to strip it down to confirm, but my impression is that it was the bottom end that wore out, and that would fit with it being driven without great care about which gear was actually appropriate at any given time.  

Edit: it also had a serious clutch fault during its last months, that I was very slow to understand, which can only have hastened its demise.

 

Obviously if it's given good oil regularly, and not driven on too many short journeys where it doesn't get up to temperature, it will help any engine last longer.

 

I suspect there is a fault to be found on yours @Auxiliary; do you have VCDS? The freeware version should let you look at measuring blocks of the engine ECU where you could perhaps scrutinise the misfire counters for each cylinder and see if the numbers increase with the judders, which seems likely.  I can't remember if they give you an individual cylinder breakdown of that stuff, but I suspect so?

It might be useful to see if they are random or focussed on one cylinder. (Or there aren't any at all)

 

If "lug" the engine the symptoms occurs like if I am in 4th gear in 22 mp/h and gives it 40-60 % throttle rapidly the engine coughs and I am not able to accelerate much. I order to accelerate I need to shift down or accelerate more slowly in 4th gear. What could be the cause of this? Otherwise, I feel like the engine is in good shape, I have a lot of mechanical sympathy, especially when the engine is cold. 

 

 

On 18/01/2022 at 22:12, nta16 said:

@Auxiliary if your Fabia is new to you or fairly recent then you might want to put a scan tool on it as suggested and I always suggest carrying out a rolling staged fully service/check of the whole car including anything that has been recorded as done in the last appropriate number of years.  Fairly easy to check things like engine oil and filter, air filter, spark plugs, cabin filter and to see if the inside of air intakes and such like and any necessary sensor(s) are clean.

 

The engine of course is not one of the most important components or system on the car, more important are brakes, steering, suspension (tyres are in all three of these), electrical items to lights and visibility.

 

It might be that all is fine already but it pays to check.

 

Personally I would not put too much faith in any factory onboard fuel consumption measurements.

 

Good luck - and your English is better than mine and I am born and bred English.

Last summer I did a scan of the entire car and the only fault code that came up was "pressure too low" meaning the cool stuff that makes AC work that gas was low. Is that common that the AC gives up already? Haha I wish my English was that good, but thanks!  

On 18/01/2022 at 22:12, nta16 said: