1.4 TSI Multiple Cylinder misfires despite replacing all 4 coil packs and spark plugs

[randompunter]

Hi all,

I have a Skoda Octavia Hatchback 1.4 TSI (150bhp) SE L 5d DSG 2015/65.

 

A few months ago, I was travelling up north on holiday with a full car, pulled away from stationary hard after an hour and a half's driving, and at about 60 mph, the car started spluttering and lost power - enough that I pulled into the hard shoulder. The orange engine light came on. The only error in the car status on the built-in head unit was that the auto stop start was not working.

 

I turned the ignition off and on, then light cleared, and I pulled away slowly with no problems. I tried accelerating hard several times and could not recreate the issue. A couple of times later in the journey over the next couple of hours, I felt the slight losses of power and jerkiness, with the engine light flashing on briefly under hard acceleration, but not staying on.

 

Once at my destination, I took it into a garage, where the chap plugged in, read the codes and identified multiple cylinder misfires. He very briefly looked under he bonnet, then announced I would need all four coil packs replacing and it would cost me 500 quid. I was skeptical and decided to wait.

 

I ordered a code reader and proceed to try to reproduce the issue up and down a long stretch of incline - it was very hard to reproduce over several runs of hard acceleration, but I did get a few instances of the light flashing on and off, and read pending codes of multiple cylinder misfires.

 

I want back home (4.5 hours away) without issue (and no hard acceleration), and took it in to a local mechanic that I trust. They plugged in and couldn't see anything (no pending codes). Subsequently I replicated again, spoke to them and they said I should have the coils replaced. I decided to bite the bullet, but did it myself with Bosch coils. A day after changing them, I found a stretch of road and found, much to my disappointment, that the problem had not gone away.

 

I took it back to the garage and they said to replace the spark plugs. I agreed for them to do it. They said that I had pinched a cable when changing the coils (I did not see any evidence of this myself), and said that they were sure that the problem will have been resolved.

 

And... guess what? It's not. I took it out immediately after their work and couldn't replicate it, then a few days later, I had the jerking acceleration with the engine light coming on. Today, I had jerking and a loss of power when overtaking, which was very concerning.

 

I am at a loss of what to do. Can anyone suggest alternative things to check or replace? Would a specialist Skoda or VW Group garage be more likely to be able to diagnose the issue reliably?

 

I would really appreciate advice on next steps.

 

Many thanks for your help,

 

Ashley

[Gerrycan]

May help others to assist you with some additional information.

 

Mileage? What sort of servicing schedule is it on (annual, or needs based)? What are the actual error codes coming up?

 

You have replaced the obvious electrical suspects so since it seems to manifest under higher loads/fuel demands then there might be the possibility of fuel starvation?

Maybe fuel pump issues or blocked fuel filters? Mass air flow meter (dirty or malfunctioning)? Check air filter condition (easy check but very unlikely to be the cause unless it has never been replaced or been compromised). Turbo issues? Just random thoughts from an armchair mechanic I'm afraid.

 

The trouble is there are many sensors on modern vehicles and any one of them could be playing up and confusing the CPU. It happened to me some years back with a different make of car and my mechanic thought it was an expensive component issue but I did my own research and fixed it with replacement of a relatively accessible and inexpensive sensor, no skill just luck as the problems seemed unrelated to the sensor in question.

Edited 17 January, 2022 by Gerrycan

[randompunter]

Hi,

 

The car has done 65000 miles and is on variable service interval. It was serviced last week when the spark plugs were changed.

 

Fuel lines and fuel filter were inspected as part of service and air filter was replaced.

 

Ashley

[xman]

You can't inspect a fuel filter, only change them.

Make sure they used the correct plugs, they should be fine tip double platinum plugs, afaik only bosch make a suitable replacement. At 65,000 miles if the plugs had never been changed then they are the prime suspect.

 

Fuel contamination is the next ppossibility. This is the only reason you might want to change the fuel filter as these are normally for life items.

 

Has this scenario continued after refilling fuel a couple of times?

 

After this comes a fuel injector issue or possibly an inlet or exhaust valve issue though this is unlikely imo.

 

Has the car been serviced over its lifetime with the correct oil 504.00 spec longlife 3 and on time, by whom, a skoda dealer?

 

Edited 17 January, 2022 by xman

[randompunter]

4 minutes ago, xman said:

You can't inspect a fuel filter, only change them.

Make sure they used the correct plugs, they should be fine tip double platinum plugs, afaik only bosch make a suitable replacement. At 65,000 miles if the plugs had never been changed then they are the prime suspect.

 

Fuel contamination is the next ppossibility. This is the only reason you might want to change the fuel filter as these are normally for life items.

 

Has this scenario continued after refilling fuel a couple of times?

 

There's a checked item on the standard paperwork from the garage for the service saying they checked the fuel filter - I don't know whether they did or they didn't.

 

The new plugs are Bosch. The issue continued after the plugs were replaced.

 

The issue has been happening on and off for several months, so have refuelled many, many times.

[xman]

Checking fuel filter is not changing, they, repeat, cannot check a fuel filter....

 

If the fuel filter were blocked, then the misfire codes would most likely have been accompaniedby low fuel pressure codes.

 

Its starting to look like a fuel injector issue to me, are the misfire codes only on one cylinder?

Edited 17 January, 2022 by xman

[randompunter]

On 17/01/2022 at 10:08, xman said:

Checking fuel filter is not changing, they, repeat, cannot check a fuel filter....

 

If the fuel filter were blocked, then the misfire codes would most likely have been accompaniedby low fuel pressure codes.

 

Its starting to look like a fuel injector issue to me, are the misfire codes only on one cylinder?

The misfires are on all 4 cylinders - a code for each cylinder (P0301 -> P0304) alongside the code for multiple cylinder misfires (P0300). There are no low fuel pressure codes. 

[xman]

Where did you get your coilpacks from, are they new and genuine? Are they fitted correctly, with the pack and securing bolt fully down?

 

Then the plugs, have you got or did you examine the old plugs, (photos would have useful) its relatively easy to check if they were worn out. Normal service life is 40,000 miles though in practice can go further.

 

Have you checked the battery voltage is ok, greater than 12.0v.

 

If no other error codes, then I would start to look at connectors and wiring. One thing to check is the camshaft sensor, I read somewhere that some garages remove this to refill the engine oil during service, as the normal filler is very slow to fill due to an internal plastic splash guard. Maybe not replaced correctly.

 

Another check could be air/vacuum pipework, one item comes to mind is the stiff brake servo vacuum pipe. Check this hasn't split where there are joints, the servo, the inlet manifold and in between.

Have you checked the oil level is correct?

[OldAndyMac]

not familiar with the 1.4 but as a DI engine could carbon build up be an issue or does it have dual injector setup like the VRS?

[Gerrycan]

1.4tsi is only direct injection so carbon build up on the inlet valve can be problem but I would expect it at a higher mileage and with different symptoms.

[TheClient]

On the ea888 gen 2 I can tell you carbon build up is a real problem from 60k miles onwards. Sometimes less.

 

But I agree with most comments and suggestions in the last few posts.

 

The impact I had from carbon build up was more at light throttle / cold starts much less obvious on motorway and higher loads. But this was on a 2.0 ccza. 

 

A change of the fuel filter (if it is not a tank integrated item) wouldn't hurt.

 

Beyond that I believe the OP needs a well respected vw / audi or independent to diagnose this properly.

 

There's lots of possibilities and if it is not the obvious,coil packs, plugs, air fuel filters it makes a considered and structured approach important. 

 

And  by diagnostics I don't just mean reading codes. They may need to do some data logging or rule in out certain things like valves leaking using good old mechanical techniques as well. 

 

 

Too much guessing without being able to start work methodically through a diagnostic test checklist with the car to hand. 

 

 

Edited 19 January, 2022 by TheClient

[kenzo81]

i had same problem! trip to croatia from denmark. 

 

i changed my spark plugs before trip , i used bosch, and i change coil packs with Hella.  i used 100oktan fuel . 

 

check engine light with message start stop error. 

 

first  i did when i come back home i change spark plugs again, and i stop using 100oktan fuel. 

 

problem solved. no more misfire.

 

one of spark plugs was faulty from the box i think, second 100oktan fuel on idle misfire like crazy. don’t know why.  vcds show me that part .  i had like 340000 misfire on cylinder 4,  and car have 70.000km  on a clock.

 

 also personal opinion is that tsi engine is fuel sensitive. i start using 95oktan from same petrol station for some time now and is all good.  car puls better when is same energy consistency fuel used.   

 

try to avoid shell for some time if possible! and test it. 

 

 

[kenzo81]

carbon clean part. pedal to the metal on highway . it helps a loot! we murder engine with city driving. 

[automass]

I have the similar car as OP with petrol engine. Last night I had engine light flashing as I was driving in the 30mph road in the city. There was no power loss or anything else other than stop/start being not working. Well, I did scan the car with OBD11 and it brought the code  P030000 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected. I have cleared the code and today as i was driving i had the similar engine light flashing without any problem.

following are the details of the diagnostic.

 

01 Engine

    System description: R4 1.4l TFS
    Software number: 04E906027HD
    Software version: 3742
    Hardware number: 04E907309BH
    Hardware version: H26
    ODX name: EV_ECM14TFS01104E906027HD
    ODX version: 001007
    Long coding: 01250032232401080000

    Trouble codes: 
        P030000 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
            Intermittent
                Date: 2022-01-21 12:59:49
                Mileage: 96241 km
                Priority: 2
                Malfunction frequency counter: 3
                Unlearning counter: 255
                Engine speed: 697.50 1/min
                Normed load value: 12.9 %
                Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                Coolant temperature: 94 °C
                Intake air temperature: 39 °C
                Ambient air pressure: 1030 mbar
                Voltage terminal 30: 12.863 V
                Dynamic environmental data: 20965011BE001713F47F4FF40682F4462C10D3000614B405DC
        P030300 - Cyl.3 Misfire Detected
            Intermittent
                Date: 2022-01-21 13:00:18
                Mileage: 96241 km
                Priority: 2
                Malfunction frequency counter: 3
                Unlearning counter: 255
                Engine speed: 697.50 1/min
                Normed load value: 12.9 %
                Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                Coolant temperature: 94 °C
                Intake air temperature: 39 °C
                Ambient air pressure: 1030 mbar
                Voltage terminal 30: 12.863 V
                Dynamic environmental data: 209650F4462CF40B1C1010007B14B405DC1199100017460001432100
        P030200 - Cyl.2 Misfire Detected
            Intermittent
                Date: 2022-01-21 19:40:32
                Mileage: 96290 km
                Priority: 2
                Malfunction frequency counter: 1
                Unlearning counter: 255
                Engine speed: 1842.50 1/min
                Normed load value: 18.0 %
                Vehicle speed: 21 km/h
                Coolant temperature: 91 °C
                Intake air temperature: 42 °C
                Ambient air pressure: 1030 mbar
                Voltage terminal 30: 13.287 V
                Dynamic environmental data: 209621F4462EF40B331010024A14B4070811990FF917460100432100

 

My Spark plugs have been changed 40k miles, now car is in 60k miles. I do change the engine oil every 10k miles. Do I have to start worrying or it is just random fault? please advise me as well.

 

 

Edited 24 January, 2022 by automass

[kenzo81]

maybe just bad fuel.  or can be carbon buildup. ✌️

[fabdavrav]

I'd watch which spark plugs & which coil packs as there have been variations even just for the 140/150bhp engines..& one manufacturer later changed the spark plugs...

 

I'd also log the signals/voltage going to the coil packs as the wiring is likely to suffer the same fate as the old 1.8T engine...heat degradation......which is why I removed the Tessa tape & re-wrapped in DEI gold foil...

 

It could also be a bad earth point for the coil pack wiring..there is one on the cylinder head between a couple of the coil packs.

[msemafor]

1 hour ago, fabdavrav said:

I'd watch which spark plugs & which coil packs as there have been variations even just for the 140/150bhp engines..& one manufacturer later changed the spark plugs...

 

I'd also log the signals/voltage going to the coil packs as the wiring is likely to suffer the same fate as the old 1.8T engine...heat degradation......which is why I removed the Tessa tape & re-wrapped in DEI gold foil...

 

It could also be a bad earth point for the coil pack wiring..there is one on the cylinder head between a couple of the coil packs.

Could you please make o photo of your wrapped in DEI gold foil wiring and share it here? It' be nice if you'd also point an earth connection for the coil pack wiring on that picture. It would be helpful for many of us. Big thanks in andvance. 

Edited 30 January, 2022 by msemafor

[fabdavrav]

1 hour ago, msemafor said:

Could you please make o photo of your wrapped in DEI gold foil wiring and share it here? It' be nice if you'd also point an earth connection for the coil pack wiring on that picture. It would be helpful for many of us. Big thanks in andvance. 

 

Here you go:-

 

[automass]

On 30/01/2022 at 15:05, fabdavrav said:

I'd watch which spark plugs & which coil packs as there have been variations even just for the 140/150bhp engines..& one manufacturer later changed the spark plugs...

 

I'd also log the signals/voltage going to the 

I had this flashing engine sign today again. Literally, i am having this every day..no power loss, no jettering only stop/start stops working. Ran the diagnostic and says cln3 misfire detected. Took the car to local garage, couldn't identify any missfire 

   P030300 - Cyl.3 Misfire Detected
            static
                Date: 2022-02-02 09:42:19
                Mileage: 97154 km
                Priority: 2
                Malfunction frequency counter: 1
                Unlearning counter: 255
                Engine speed: 698.00 1/min
                Normed load value: 13.7 %
                Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                Coolant temperature: 96 °C
                Intake air temperature: 45 °C
                Ambient air pressure: 1020 mbar
                Voltage terminal 30: 13.334 V
                Dynamic environmental data: 209650F44634F40B1D1010008D14B40E1011991000174600014

Edited 2 February, 2022 by automass

[automass]

I had the car diagnosed by volkswagen specialist and they recommended to change the ignition coils and saprk plugs. Please have a look at the attached picture with the price. Do you think its worth doing with them?

[fabdavrav]

1 hour ago, automass said:

I had this flashing engine sign today again. Literally, i am having this every day..no power loss, no jettering only stop/start stops working. Ran the diagnostic and says cln3 misfire detected. Took the car to local garage, couldn't identify any missfire 

   P030300 - Cyl.3 Misfire Detected
            static
                Date: 2022-02-02 09:42:19
                Mileage: 97154 km
                Priority: 2
                Malfunction frequency counter: 1
                Unlearning counter: 255
                Engine speed: 698.00 1/min
                Normed load value: 13.7 %
                Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                Coolant temperature: 96 °C
                Intake air temperature: 45 °C
                Ambient air pressure: 1020 mbar
                Voltage terminal 30: 13.334 V
                Dynamic environmental data: 209650F44634F40B1D1010008D14B40E1011991000174600014

 

That report above just states its occurred once....voltage is above 13V which is ok...

 

I'd start using higher octane fuel eg Shell Vpower, just in case you got a bad batch of fuel..or the dregs of the tank the last time you filed up....

 

If it happens again, then see which cylinder it occurs on, & swap the coil pack with one of the others...& then see if that other cylinder that you've moved the coil pack to now has a misfire..

[automass]

its keep happening. I mean, i cleared the code this afternoon but after couple of hours stop/start stops working (no flashing engine sign though). I ran the diagnostic and it gave me syl3 missfire. I have decided to change all the coils and spark plugs. I am not going to skoda dealer as they gave me quote for £55 per coil and £25 per spark plugs. Can anybody recommend me any other place where i can get genuine volkswagen parts cheaper or would it be wise to buy from ECP? if yes, then what make or brand I should go for?

 

 

[fabdavrav]

11 minutes ago, automass said:

its keep happening. I mean, i cleared the code this afternoon but after couple of hours stop/start stops working (no flashing engine sign though). I ran the diagnostic and it gave me syl3 missfire. I have decided to change all the coils and spark plugs. I am not going to skoda dealer as they gave me quote for £55 per coil and £25 per spark plugs. Can anybody recommend me any other place where i can get genuine volkswagen parts cheaper or would it be wise to buy from ECP? if yes, then what make or brand I should go for?

 

 

 

 

As I said before MOVE the coil pack to another cylinder & if the fault happens again it should show up with the fault for the cylinder you moved the coil to....then you know its the coil pack.

 

If however the fault still shows as "cyl3" then you know its not the coil pack & its something else...

[classic]

 Before you fire the parts cannon at it, I would try fabdavrav’s suggestion of swapping coils. You’ve identified a cylinder 3 misfire and if I understand the rest of the posts it hasn’t ever recorded a misfire on cylinder 4. Try swapping coils 3 and 4. If that moves the misfire from 3 to 4 then you’ve identified the faulty coil and just replace that.

[automass]

2 minutes ago, classic said:

 Before you fire the parts cannon at it, I would try fabdavrav’s suggestion of swapping coils. You’ve identified a cylinder 3 misfire and if I understand the rest of the posts it hasn’t ever recorded a misfire on cylinder 4. Try swapping coilsl we 3 and 4. If that moves the misfire from 3 to 4 then you’ve identified the faulty coil and just replace that.

I got your point but volkswagen specialist did diagnose with their tool and they identified cyl 1,2 and 3 has the problem and as far as i can remember when this problem occured for the first time..it was also 1,2 and 3. Another thing is i dont know not know how to change the coils or plugs..