DSG modes and gears-kickdown etc. ?gaslighting

[Ootohere]

There is quite a difference with a TSI or a TDI, and a DQ200 DSG.

I do sometimes in a DQ200 DSG drop back to S before and overtake, but if the car / engine has the power i am in D and do a double kickdown and then once moving maybe go across to M and do down shifts,  but if someone in a Diesel is up my back end or trying to be caught up i might just sit in D and go back to S for slowing down and then boot it from there. 

It is about cars size, weight and actual performance.

If i am booting it up a crawler lane in D and running out of puff in a diesel i might shift to S to get some more go, then still kickdown.

The reason i prefer D is the quick know across to M with some DSG's  and being able to drop gears to slow down. 

I really do not use paddles, i like to use the shifter.

[MarkyG82]

1 hour ago, toot said:

 

The reason i prefer D is the quick know across to M with some DSG's  and being able to drop gears to slow down. 

I really do not use paddles, i like to use the shifter.

 

Is this not a thing regardless of D or S? You can still push across to M. Or do some DSGs have an actual slot for S?

[Ootohere]

Not on some DSG's, like DQ200's, like on a Mk2 Fabia vRS or others. 

Needs to be in D to go to the left. 

 

Edited 12 February, 2023 by toot

[PetrolDave]

2 hours ago, Jono said:

I'd engage Sport to be in the correct gear, *before* initiating an overtake rather than pulling out, then stamping on the throttle and waiting for the DSG to get it's **** together.

I didn't say I waited until after I had pulled out to stamp on the throttle! I leave enough gap to the car in front to get a clear view up the road so that I have the space to stamp on the pedal while still behind the car I'm overtaking and still on the same side of the road.

[Jono]

2 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

I didn't say I waited until after I had pulled out to stamp on the throttle! I leave enough gap to the car in front to get a clear view up the road so that I have the space to stamp on the pedal while still behind the car I'm overtaking and still on the same side of the road.

Wasn't directing a comment at you buddy.

 

Interestingly though, I'd contend that you don't necessarily have the right approach... but it's all situational and in the case of motorbikes, you have a lot more spare power.

 

In an ideal world, you wouldn't be closing swiftly with the car in front in case they have to brake at an inconvenient time.

You pick the right gear, pull out, get a good view, then decide if the overtake is on or not.  

[Ootohere]

It matters what acceleration the vehicle has and no idea if @PetrolDave,s 1.8TSI / 180 ps is just a FWD and has a DQ200, but even in a DQ250 it will likely drop 2 gears and move a bit quicker than a more powerful diesel that might well need to wind it's self up. 

A DQ200 really does have good points fitted to engines with small turbos.  The quick reaction to the accelerator can be an issue with the 1.0 or 1.2 even 1.4 or 1.5 as in wheel spin from a standing start, 

a rolling start is not the same though. 

 

These were / are 192 ps.

 

 

 

Edited 13 February, 2023 by toot

[Dooge]

OP, sorry to hear you are still having issues. 

 

No help for you but this thread made me find something new after 9 months of ownership... I didnt know the gearbox had a Sport mode! 

 

Id always defaulted to the VRS modes but tried it and definitely makes a difference for quickly overtaking. FYI, mine definitely kicks down regardless of VRS modes in Sport mode on gearbox. Hoping you get it sorted!

[Jono]

Frustrating update:

 

"Basic gearbox adaptations" have been redone and after several hundred miles of driving there has been no change or improvement in how the DSG behaves.

 

E, D, S modes have no perceptible difference in gearchange points and engaging Sport mode on a trailing throttle at low/tickover revs does not prompt the downshift that it used to. e.g. for engine braking, overtake preparation or for appropriate gear for proper vehicle control around a roundabout.

 

 

Page 128 of my car handbook helpfully states:

 

"In Mode S , the forward gears are shifted automatically up and down at higher engine speeds that mode D"

and

"In mode E , the forward gears are shifted automatically up and down at lower engine speeds than mode D"

 

My car no longer does this, yet I'm told my car behaves just like all the other cars.

 

 

 

It seems the dealer and I have reached an impasse and I'm advised to take it up with Skoda.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Videos of engaging sport mode and a drop in gear would be particularly helpful.

 

 

 

 

[MarkyG82]

Another garage?

[ords]

Any chance of driving one of the garages Scout's to see "if they all do it"?

[Jono]

15 hours ago, ords said:

Any chance of driving one of the garages Scout's to see "if they all do it"?

 

Could do, but the problem being they are all significantly later models.

 

I accept that it's possible that newer vehicles DSGs behave in a particular way - say for emissions testing reasons - that the 23AX update might have changed my car to.

That doesn't alter the fact that my car used to behave entirely differently.

 

I'll be test driving some older 2 litre diesel DQ250 DSG cars in person. In fact, if anyone is near Nottingham with one and likes to be paid in homebrew it'd be great to take a video whilst you demo...

 

 

Edited 22 February, 2023 by Jono

[Jono]

So...

 

I've just driven ~5 year old 2 litre TDI DSG  Passat, Tiguan and Audi Q5s

 

In all cases, engaging "S" mode via  the gearlever almost always prompts a downshift.

 

 

I'm now 100% certain that something is wrong. I simply don't understand how the dealership can think it is ok.

 

I have reached an impasse with the dealership, who I think are aggrieved because I have already opened a case with Skoda.

 

A hamper of goodies arrived from Skoda today - which is a nice gesture - but not a good substitute for my car working properly...

 

 

I think this now boils down to

 

1) Something was done wrong but will not be acknowledged by dealership - and can be fixed elsewhere

or

2) Update makes car behave as intended by Skoda - a change which I did not give informed consent to, and therefore want rolling back.

 

 

 

[varooom]

Assuming this is down to an emissions fix, and it's very likely as someone I know had a customer complaint of exactly as you describe.  I gave a little help in rolling back the update, and customer was happy.

 

IIRC it was a fix for Engine ECU and DSG, but just rolling back the Engine ECU restored harmony.

 

 

No main dealer will allow rollback, choices are independent garage with correct software, or a vehicle tuner and have it remapped/rollback with them.

[Jono]

Thanks @varooom.

 

Next step is awaiting another convo with Skoda customer services to see what they say.

 

I cant see how they should be allowed to make such a big change without the informed consent of owners.

 

Obviously I feel that I *shouldn't have to* spend time and money to go to a third party or tuner to fix my car.

 

 

Knowing that it might just take an ECU fix, not DSG too is good news.

 

A bit of looking at Dutch/German forums suggested that the 23AX is particularly brutal on Euro6 non-adblue engines like mine.

 

I believe such engines are actually very rare as there are only a few months of manufacture of Euro 6, before adblue was included.

 

 

 They also made the point that nitrogen oxides and soot are 2 sides of the same hot/cool burn coin. Cooler burning and richer mixes inevitably gives more soot - which I find annoyingly plausible 😞

 

Edited 23 February, 2023 by Jono

[varooom]

What was the story behind this update, did you go in knowing it was in for an update, or did you go in for something else and they then told you afterwards it had it done?

If the latter, then that's not good, as customer should be asked before if it has been tuned and informed prior to work.  You should have been asked to sign a work order in theory,

 

I hear what you say about not having to pay for a fix, but there's no chance for Skoda to fix this ever.  No clue where you are, but might be an idea to find out the nearest independant garage that might be able to assist.

 

[Insert graphic for blood from a stone]

[Ootohere]

@Jono   Who has Skoda Customer Services handed you over to to discuss the issue,

some Technical Department, Engineer or the likes or a Customer Services Manager that might not even have a car or driving licence? 

Do they even know what your car actually is? 

[Jono]

20 hours ago, varooom said:

What was the story behind this update, did you go in knowing it was in for an update, or did you go in for something else and they then told you afterwards it had it done?

If the latter, then that's not good, as customer should be asked before if it has been tuned and informed prior to work.  You should have been asked to sign a work order in theory,

 

I hear what you say about not having to pay for a fix, but there's no chance for Skoda to fix this ever.  No clue where you are, but might be an idea to find out the nearest independant garage that might be able to assist.

 

 

Car booked in for routine service and DSG oil change.

 

Told on arrival about 23AX emissions update.

Queried what it entailed and if there were any potential downsides.

Given the Skoda blurb on what it did - emissions, protecting the catalyst etc.

Asked the service manager directly about any potential downsides.

SM said that "there were none, it had been done to loads of vehicles and there were no reported problems, Skoda were doing this update for a good reason and to protect my vehicle. He would do it if it were his car."

Absolutely *zero* mention of affecting gearchanges or behaviour of gearbox modes.

 

Did I consent to the update - Yes

Was my consent based on misleading information - Yes

 

So - Did I give *informed consent* - Emphatically, NO!

 

 

 

I accept that the dealership were given incomplete information by Skoda. Thats fine.

 

I'm very salty about being told there is nothing wrong with the function of the DSG, the removal of the different modes, and that I drive funny.

 

@toot I don't know exactly who's handling the complaint, but it's via the VWUK Executive Office rather than a random callcentre.

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

She used to be a cracker.  (Kate Laws)  Total memory clearance from one Customers issue til the next. Every problem being different even when identical.   So I got slagged when posting her LinkedIn showing CV.   Now there are new Executive Team members.   I linked the latest cracker of hopelessness recently in another thread.  I will link later.    New CEO, new ex team Resolution Managers,. Same VW UK 3 monkeys.      Ps.  The Senior team member dealing with the Octavia mk4 software issues had a member believing their car was part of the trials to find a fix.   As though VW group UK have not hundreds of cars registered to then that cars later sold as Ex Management.   So Demonstrators, Media cars that they can experiment on them selves.  If they ever drive the dodgy ones. 

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/484705-kphmph/page/15

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/484705/kphmph/page/14

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/501404-automatic-gearbox-issues

 

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/508567-suggestions-on-where-to-purchase-a-spare-car-key

 

 

 

 

Edited 24 February, 2023 by toot

[Jono]

Well, I'm hoping that VW/Skoda will resolve this in a mutually acceptable fashion.

 

They appear to be acting in good faith at this time.

 

 

[varooom]

@Jono thanks for clarifying it for me, and others so we know exactly what they did with you.  I can imagine that you are pi55ed off now that the DSG seems to be a limp unit now.

 

Not sure what resolution you will get, but I doubt they can put you back on older software at the dealers, all you can hope for is some compensation or a possible software fix if enough of you complain about the performance.

[Jono]

Well, it's been "escalated" AGAIN, but I keep getting the same not-answers to my questions from Skoda Technical.

 

 

Your questions:

1. Was the 23AX update intended in any way to change the behaviour of the DSG gearbox?
2. Did the 23AX update change software in the ECU alone, or the ECU and DSG?
3. Does the attached handbook picture, and my description above (Edit – see below) , accurately describe how the DSG should behave – i.e., Sport mode selecting and holding lower gears than Drive and Economy modes?
4. My pre and post-update ECU software version number and pre and post-update DSG software version number.

The response we received is below
 

The campaign was to: On the affected vehicles the software of the engine control unit must be updated and on vehicles with dual clutch also the gearbox control unit.must be updated.The software update reduces emissions The software update does not have any negative effects on fuel consumption, CO2 emission values, engine performance, maximum torque, noise emissions, the durability of the engine or exhaust gas after treatment system. The engine and gearbox ECUs were updated, there is no information other than the above.

 

The hand book does not give a detailed description as to how the gear box should behave . I would suggest the customer visits the local retailer for a like for like comparison with another vehicle"

 

This statement is junk as both the Skoda website here:

  https://www.skoda-auto.com/world/range-driving-modes

 

And my handbook unambiguously states:

 

"In Mode S , the forward gears are shifted automatically up and down at higher engine speeds that mode D"

 

and

 

"In mode E , the forward gears are shifted automatically up and down at lower engine speeds than mode D"

 

 

I recently drove 3 similarly aged VW/Audi 2L DSG cars, and they have a Sport mode that actually does things... 

 

 

I'm still gathering data, but it looks like my DPF regen frequency is now in the 200s rather then 300s of Km.

It's been theorised that the update makes it deliberately burn rich and cool to reduce nitrogen oxides, at the expense of more soot.

 

 

I'm so ****ed off...

[MarkyG82]

How wedded are you to owning this car?

[Jono]

If working as intended - quite wedded.

 

If unfixable, less so.

 

Why do you ask?

 

Third party tuner fix is likely cheaper that the cost-to-change and really I'm a few years away from wanting to change.

 

I object to spending a grand to put my car back to how it should be, and if Skoda cant resolve my family wont ever be buying VAG again.

[MarkyG82]

1 hour ago, Jono said:

If working as intended - quite wedded.

 

If unfixable, less so.

 

Why do you ask?

 

Third party tuner fix is likely cheaper that the cost-to-change and really I'm a few years away from wanting to change.

 

I object to spending a grand to put my car back to how it should be, and if Skoda cant resolve my family wont ever be buying VAG again.

 

I ask because you are clearly unhappy with how the car is right now but know it can be better. I'm confident it's a single car issue as you also seem to have found. Maybe a change of car is what you need unfortunately.

Unless, like I kind of loaded the question, you want to keep the car and end up getting the box tuned.

[Jono]

Yeah, we are both on the same page.

 

Lets not let solutions at a cost to me get in the way of the fact its totally unacceptable, should never have happened and should be taken on the chin and resolved by Skoda.

 

Edited 19 March, 2023 by Jono