@kodiaqsportline So you read one story where a garage screwed up.

There are more stories where others have screwed up with 1.0TSI timing belt changed.

 

Maybe if you could be bothered you can ask the Dealership you visit next how much they are charging for a 2018 on 1.5 TSI ACT timing belt replacement.

Or ask that VW / Audi specialist their price. 

 

So we can do a comparison.     It is not Servicing we are talking about here. 

Edited 25 January, 20233 yr by toot

11 minutes ago, kodiaqsportline said:

 

From my prospective, I have zero interest in what anyone's labour rate is - they could charge £1 an hour for all I care. I also don't care what price they say or advertise at. What I do care about is the answer to my question -  "In total, how much, including VAT, will the job cost me?"

 

Perhaps I'm getting too old but in my experience there's usually, but not always, some element of robbing Peter to pay Paul about the final pricing.

 

My local VAG specialist doesn't charge that much different than the main dealer for things like servicing. They do if you have an Audi tho 🤣

You like spending £60/hour on the overhead of a new car salesroom!!

Just probed a bit more with the main dealer who quoted me £580 for the cambelt.  After I explained I had ACT they replied admitting their mistake and said the price should have been £1300 !!!  These cam belt training courses must be expensive to get qualified (or does some of the price go on liability insurance in case something goes disastrously wrong ?).

A £350 or more difference on a 6-7 hour job is a lot of money, for some even a weeks earning splashed out.

Based on the £1,100 quotes from Main Dealers and £750 ones.    

£1,300 is just really getting silly.   But like most things, if you do not want the job quote high, and some might actually want the work done.

 

There are likeky to be people with a 5 year old keeper that decide time to change the car rather than Timing belt, brake fluid change, maybe a DSG service or haldex and other stuff, Oil & Inspection Service and Extended Scope and another MOT. 

 

Buyers of a 5 year old or older 1.5 TSI ACT will need to be aware of the Servicing and Maintenance recommendations.

 

( Quoting a high price on a job you do not really want is like Asking Prices for cars when a trader actually wants to keep the car a while but it is part of the business.s inventory.)

No free lunches in this life.

 

That is the difference of one trained technician against another with the gear and more than ideas spending a good part of a day doing a job, parts, consumables & vat.

Maybe the 2 year parts and labour warranty and a courtesy car and a nice waiting room is worth that extra money.

Many will be paying that.

 

Hopefully that is a fully trained and qualified person working on the car. 

Dealerships are going to be having longer waiting lists for slots in the workshop where a tech might be doing just 1 Timing Belt job and 4 services in a working day.

 

Edited 25 January, 20233 yr by toot

2 hours ago, toot said:

@kodiaqsportline So you read one story where a garage screwed up.

There are more stories where others have screwed up with 1.0TSI timing belt changed.

 

Maybe if you could be bothered you can ask the Dealership you visit next how much they are charging for a 2018 on 1.5 TSI ACT timing belt replacement.

Or ask that VW / Audi specialist their price. 

 

So we can do a comparison.     It is not Servicing we are talking about here. 

 

You're such a smart bugger. ' if you can be bothered'.... 

 

Let's just be clear about this - Root doesn't own a Karoq. He doesn't even own a 1.5tsi. Not sure he owns a Skoda or any car from VW group - if he does it's some old banger. All his 'knowledge' is based on using Google and the search function. If you can be bothered, perhaps you'd buy a Skoda and visit dealerships and speak to their receptionists and master technicians be able to comment from 1st hand experience.

 

So given that you have zero experience of this, let me explain how it works. I visted my dealer yesterday (for something completely unrelated. When's the last time you visited a Skoda dealership?). They will quote me a price and then I will say 'no thank you' Fred Blogs along the street will do that job for £200 less. The dealer then says to me, OK then I'll match that price. It matters not a jot what their hourly rate is.

 

That's how it works out here in the real world with us owners. No google, no searching the forum, no spending all day on the internet - what you do is find out from the people who matter 'How much are you going to charge me'. That's what I've explained above, if you can't understand that, can you please spend your time advising others on what to do and stop wasting my time. If you can be bothered that is.

 

2 hours ago, toot said:

£1,300 is just really getting silly. 

 

You have absolutley no idea of what is involved in changing the cambelt on a 1.5tsi.  Who are you to say it's silly?

 

The price in John 'o 'groats is going to be different to the price in Mayfair.

 

I'm impressed by how expert people think they are who have zero experience, zero information, but think themselves qualified to say something is silly.

Edited 25 January, 20233 yr by kodiaqsportline

@kodiaqsportline. Calm yourself.  You just carry on as you are.  I will as I wish to.   What I am qualified in is how long I worked in the car trade. Served my time as a mechanic and a car sprayer, and buying and selling cars and doing repairs and warranty work.  Sometime tell us your trade or profession.    

Edited 25 January, 20233 yr by toot

Maybe time to lower the rhetoric now?

I may be going over old ground here but...   doesn't the 1.5TSI ACT have a similar cam arrangement to the 1.4TSI ACT which, according to the Skoda technical manuals, doesn't need changing and is only an 'inspection' item as it's a lifetime belt?

 

If so I can understand why people are getting ridiculous quotes...

Yes similar to a 1.4 TSI ACT / 1.4 TFSI COD.  Not the same though with just a greater cubic capacity.

 

Just link up that Skoda Technical Manuals.   All belts are lifetime. They last until they fail at end of life.  Tensioners and bearings are not lift time.

 

According to a member here you give the Dealership Staff the VIN and then they know what is required when and can tell you the price they charge.

 

Decision would be a lot easier if there was no interference between the valves and pistons if the cam belt failed.  I wonder why the engines are designed for interference ?

1 hour ago, kodiaqsportline said:

 

You have absolutley no idea of what is involved in changing the cambelt on a 1.5tsi.  Who are you to say it's silly?

 

The price in John 'o 'groats is going to be different to the price in Mayfair.

 

I'm impressed by how expert people think they are who have zero experience, zero information, but think themselves qualified to say something is silly.

 

Why do you have to be so objectionable!

 

I have always found Toot to be  most helpful on this Forum and would sooner take advice from him than someone like you . It is obvious Toot knows his   stuff regarding engines etc. But as you apparently cannot grasp that. Perhaps something to do with your  background and lack of engineering experience.

On 24/01/2023 at 11:40, KenONeill said:

Not unusual on overhead camshaft (and indeed pushrod cam in head) engines. Also about 10 minutes work.

It is the aux or alternator belt.

It has to come off anyway, so why put the one back when £10-20 of parts for a new one means that’s done at the same time.

 

Doing both is good advice as the cost is pretty much parts only.

 

 

As already requested by John, keep it civil.
Just think how you would respond if someone replied to you how you are about to reply before you post!

Edited 25 January, 20233 yr by cheezemonkhai

Not sure if this will help, but if you have this calibration printed on your engine, you will have the expensive cambelt change.

 

Look for this...

 

VAS 611 007 Calibration tool needed

15 hours ago, Karock said:

 

Why do you have to be so objectionable!

 

I have always found Toot to be  most helpful on this Forum and would sooner take advice from him than someone like you . It is obvious Toot knows his   stuff regarding engines etc. But as you apparently cannot grasp that. Perhaps something to do with your  background and lack of engineering experience.

I must admit - I too found kodiaqsportline to also be a bit too harsh, rude and "unnecessary" in his comments.  Toot always does "try" to help and offer honest well meaning advice and opinion. This is despite the fact that he does occasionally rub you up the wrong way and not even realise (or apologise when pointed out to him - which is certainly something he could work at) 🙂 .   You don't have to currently own a particular car to know how it works or how it is repaired or how the trade tends to work/behave and we are all entitled to our opinions.  

Edited 26 January, 20233 yr by smipx

seems to my non technical mind that the changing of the belt has been made excessively complicated to:

 

1) stop the non franchised dealers being able to easily compete or make it worthwhile for them to try

2) create work for the dealers where it might not have been necessary

3) made it overly complex where fitting, say, a chained timing belt would have only cost a few pounds more at manufacture but saved the customers £1000's of pounds in avoidable maintenance over the 15 year life of the car

 

Can we stop it. not really - we can only buy another marque and hope they are not the same.

I somehow suspect that it will carry on when we are all in electric cars.  It's the world we live in.

Only governments can really change it by regulation but without the benefit of balls made of crystal I doubt they have the technical ability to even understand. Even then, the nasty little people at companies like VAG will try to get around the regulations until then are caught (ahem - Dieselgate).  The manufacturers were made to allow anyone with the correct skills work on their cars so their answer......  Make them so damned tricky to do that, effectively and in "all but name", they are going to make the law (e.g. the European Block Exemption legislation) an ass and toothless.  Maybe I'm just being too synical in my dotage.

 

Lets be honest - the diagram above would not look out of place at a space centre - Car's should not really need to be akin to rocket science.  Too complicated for even the VAG mechanics to work on easily (as appears to be the case). 

Edited 26 January, 20233 yr by smipx

Mazdas have timing chains.  I should have stayed with them but they didn’t offer a vehicle with the same spec as my Karoq.

It is decades ago, or not really, lets not forget the Euro 4 TSI / TFSI Timing chain issues that continued into Euro 5.

1.2. 1.4. 1.8 & 2.0 TSI's

 

There were Tensioner / kit upgrades eventually and things were much better as it got to VW discontinuing the engines with Timing Chains.

They had to admit after many years the fundamental design, manufacturing and material failings.

 

Millions of good engines out there, sadly lots and lots of owners got the lemons, and that was the same cars knocking around the trade / market still now.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/344005-12tsi-cam-chain-problem

 

 

Each manufacturer have their "gotcha's" I suspect. In my late 20's I got (what I thought) was the pinnacle of my car owning life (which - to be fair, at the time, it kind of was) - an Automatic Mercedes C 240 V6 Automatic. It was a lovely car but at 9 years old it turned out that oil had a tendancy to leak from the auto box and, by perastaltic/surface tension action, work its way uphill to the ECU for the gearbox. Not what one would expect from a marque such as Mercedes (at the time they were pretty rock solid - unlike now of course).

3 minutes ago, toot said:

It is decades ago, or not really, lets not forget the Euro 4 TSI / TFSI Timing chain issues that continued into Euro 5.

1.2. 1.4. 1.8 & 2.0 TSI's

 

There were Tensioner / kit upgrades eventually and things were much better as it got to VW discontinuing the engines with Timing Chains.

They had to admit after many years the fundamental design, manufacturing and material failings.

 

Millions of good engines out there, sadly lots and lots of owners got the lemons, and that was the same cars knocking around the trade / market still now.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/344005-12tsi-cam-chain-problem

 

 

Seems to be a regular and very longstanding thing with VAG with one poorly designed engine / gearbox or 'tother. Isuspect their pinnacle of engineering excellence has long since passed - probably in the 1940's.  We should be thankful that they are nothing to do with the design and manufacture of the Leopard 2 tank 🙂

 

Edited 26 January, 20233 yr by smipx

VW Group became the biggest car manufacturer in the world until late 2015 when the Defeat Device scandal ment that went back to Toyota.

(Just before Suzuki bought back the last share from VW group with money lent by Toyota. Suzuki did not suffer,  their Mild Hybrid cars are on sale now, their 3 cylinder engines are good, the shared work they did with Fiat & Mitsubishi was what gets many manufacturers where they are now ahead of VW Tech.)

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-34103944

 

Shares bought after hour of the trading day.  Very soon after sh!t hits the fan, for VW Group.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-34275917

 

Just coincidence. Suzuki no longer part owned by VW Group.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-34322961

 

Cheating, not us!  Well they all were, some just more blatant, and caught.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-36319144

 

 

So Ford engines have failed, Toyota, Mazda,  Kia, Hyundai, Vauxhall,  Renault / Mercedes Banz, BMW and all the others.  The difference is the years of denial from who were the biggest manufacturer in the world.

 

If the great engines were recognised and evolved to even better that makes sense.  But euro pinching and spending more on advertising and lawyers than in R&D can be the issue.

Then passing on faults from model to model. and not dealing with snagging faults.

Edited 26 January, 20233 yr by toot

Thanks Varoom for taking the trouble to post those diagrams.  It explains exactly why a cam belt change is so costly as half the engine needs to be dismantled.

 

28 minutes ago, smipx said:

oil had a tendancy to leak from the auto box and, by perastaltic/surface tension action, work its way uphill to the ECU for the gearbox.

 

Peristaltic movement of an oil leak 🥴

 

How does that work then?

OK, it's the capillary action, mainly induced by surface tension.

 

 

Edited 26 January, 20233 yr by agedbriar

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

 

Peristaltic movement of an oil leak 🥴

 

How does that work then?

Not sure of the exact physics (and as you say certianly not perastaltic) but it certainly peed me off facing a £3k bill for a new gearbox ECU + associated electronics and cables and fixes for the "known issue" on a 10 year old Merc that was worth about £3K - which I might add I purchased brand new from Mercedes at a considerable premium at the time. I got rid of the car pretty sharpish (PX to VAG garage as it happens).  I took it initially to an indie who (for around £80) carefully cleaned out the ECU housing as best as possible and added some absorbent pads in strategic places so it would "hopefully" last the rest of the cars life.    I felt no guilt PX-ing it by the way before some someone attempts to make me feel bad.  VAG have had more than their pound of flesh out of me for sure.  

Edited 26 January, 20233 yr by smipx