Dead battery, EFB vs AGM replacement (and self code?)

[SomethingSuperbly]

Hi all,

 

As mentioned in the title the original battery in my 2017 Superb is pretty much dead after all these years, either due to time or short journeys (it happens when you change jobs and find one close by).

 

The usual warning signs happened, "Manoeuvre braking unavailable" and rarely "ACC unavailable", I turned off the usual high consumption aspects (infotainment, lights, stop/start, removed internal devices) then one day the engine just failed to crank and had to jump start with my portable starter. I topped up the battery at work with a trickle charger but it doesn't seem to hold any charge anymore and with the "ACC unavailable" and various other faults. Haven't tried a forced 12V charge using the Noco Genius 5 but at this point I think a battery swap is best.

 

What I have is the OEM supplied Banner EFB battery in the sleeve (should be 6R0 915 105 B, 12V 69Ah 360A DIN, 680A EN/SAE/GS).

 

Looking on the forums here suggests changing to the AGM type battery, which typically lasts three times longer than the EFB type which only lasts twice as long and is better with high loads.

 

However to make this change it seems like does require coding or adaptation, I have the non-subscription (Basic) version of OBDeleven with some credits but it seems like I may need the Pro version to do this. It's nice to have it as a reader however if I need to throw more money at it might've been more sensible to have gone for a scanner that does it all without needing any subscriptions.

 

I was looking at the E39 Varta AGM 70Ah battery from Tayna seems to be the most recommended on here, however after further reading I'm beginning to wonder if this is a good idea?

 

From what I've read, AGM batteries do not like heat as it causes the cells to dry up, and so are installed away from the engine bay. My Superb does have a protective thermal battery sleeve which should keep out the heat. Has anyone experienced or heard of this?

 

Given the issue I may just go back to buying another EFB type battery from Tayna (I don't use the stop/start but usually have the infortainment on) and just doing a straight swap. Any EFB recommendations? Do they still need adaptation for battery increase (69Ah to 70Ah, battery manufacturer, change last digits on the battery serial)?

 

Alternatively someone I know recommended going to Halfords and just getting one of their Yuasa batteries fitted and coded.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

 

 

 

Edited 2 March, 2023 by SomethingSuperbly

[Q102]

Halfords fiited a new battery to my 2019 1.5TSI, can't remember what was in there before.

They didn't code it as "it's the same as the one we took out, it only might need coding if completely dead"

Anyway, gots lots of warnings on first start, turned steering to full lock each direction, all errors gone.

I did leave in on my CTEK trickle charge overnight and gave it a few longish runs - including a drive to the Alps!

No issues since, SS works as it should now, whereas before it never worked with the old battery.

[Danoid]

My cars a March 2016 and on original AGM and it’s still going strong, I tend to do around 3-4K a year. I believe I’ve had it twice in the last 3 or 4 years where it says “12v low, drive to charge”

 

Based on my experience I’d get another AGM as I’ve heard EFB’s on here failing and much younger than mine.

 

When you get it replaced do get it coded especially as it’s going from 68 to 70. You’ll see the new battery does not have a BEM code as this is what Vag put on themselves but whoever codes this should know what they’re doing.

 

I’d recommend looking for a vag specialist and just say you got the battery can they fit and code for you, be easiest and they’ll know what to do correctly first time 

[varooom]

Take a read here for some of your questions.

 

In basic, you should adapt it 100% if you are changing from EFB to AGM.

If you already have the fabric sleeve around your battery, then you AGM will be fine, mine is next to engine with a small air gap as most are, and it's fine.

 

An AGM next to engine without the sleeve will prematurely age it, so not a good idea.

[nta16]

Unfortunately you let your existing battery get to low for too long and the trickle charge was too little too late but the good side is that you now have this experience and knowledge and can prevent this happening to the new battery by using an appropriate battery recharger and maintainer in time when required before the new battery gets too low for too long.

 

I think AGM batteries have additional insulation underneath compared to EFB but I fitted an AGM without to my wife's 2015 Fabia regardless as she often does very short journeys (2miles).

 

If you don't use the star/stop much, or even if you did, you could go back to EFB if you want, and avoid 'coding' - see varooom's guide.

 

This is the Varta 096 EFB from Tayna, not a lot less cost to AGM - N70 VARTA START-STOP EFB CAR BATTERY 12V 70AH (570500076) TYPE 096 - https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/varta/n70/

 

Don't wait for the warning lights and messages rather recharge the battery before it gets that low with an appropriate battery charger and maintainer and then your replacement EFB could last even longer than the current one.

 

Check your 'Owner's Manual' for disconnecting/reconnecting the battery it's a lot easier and straightforward than many think (those that haven't referred to the 'Owner's Manual') and check the 'Owner's Manual' for advice on charging the battery.  Free PDF downloads are available from VWSkoda from this link.- https://manual.skoda-auto.com/004/en-com/Models

 

Check if your existing OBDEleven does battery 'coding', my wife's battery was 'coded' by a member from here using an OBDEleven but I don't know what level it was.  Perhaps there might be someone near you if you need them map of VCDS owners. - https://tinyurl.com/yn6mmtyk.

 

Edited 2 March, 2023 by nta16
spelling

[SkudMissile21]

I changed my efb to an agm battery last October after I had an alternator failure (and associated dealer warranty nightmares…)

I ended up going with one from Halfords, the 70A one that was a direct fit with 5 year warranty. Coded it myself with my VCDS but the procedure was very simple as others have said. No idea about your obd11 but I also have an old Carista dongle that seemed to be able to do quite a lot so might be another option as you can get those around £30 and get a free months full features usually?

I guess Halfords could have coded it but not sure I’d trust them to actually do it properly!

No issues since and always starts straight away even on the very cold mornings or when it’s been sat for several days.

Edited 2 March, 2023 by SkudMissile21

[SomethingSuperbly]

@nta16

 

Yes that may well be the case, unfortunately I do not have off road access to trickle charge the car, I was only able to recently and I'm afraid by now the damage has been done.

 

If that is the case I might as well go for the AGM, it's not entirely about the cost of the battery but the expected duration of the battery. The Varta E39 looks like a good choice then.

 

I can see the options on the OBDeleven and what I would need to change to make the adaptation but I also see a red padlock. I think I'm about done with this scanner if I need to pay £56.99 just to make changes to the system.

@SkudMissile21e Were there any obvious signs that the alternator wasn't working? Like black marks on the coils or something that you could see or warnings on the dash?

[BillyParker]

I changed OEM EFB bty to AGM from Tayna. 096 Enduroline stop/start battery - £121.33. Coded with OBDeleven as changed from EFB to AGM and 68 to 70ah. Took longer changing battery than coding it. That was Dec last year and had no problems at all.

[SkudMissile21]

@SomethingSuperbly no, no warnings or issues at all.

the car has always started fine.

I was thinking of doing the battery purely due to the age being 4.5 years at the time but after it got drained right down on the way to the dealers (ended up on a transporter after giving me a box full of neutrals half way there…) I decided I was going to replace it immediately after the alternator for peace of mind.

oh and I never got to inspect the alternator myself so no idea!

Edited 3 March, 2023 by SkudMissile21

[JR RS]

For those who want to know how to do the coding after changing the battery, using OBDEleven or VCDS, follow the instructions in the link below.

It's very important to set the Rated Battery Capacity and the Battery Technology type.

For AGM batteries, make sure u select "Fleece".

 

https://forum.obdeleven.com/thread/4252/coding-new-battery

 

I've got an EFB+ battery, so mine is set accordingly.

 

 

Edited 3 March, 2023 by JR RS

[SomethingSuperbly]

@BillyParker Was your version of OBDeleven the Standard or Pro version?

 

@JR RS Thanks for the screenshot, did you need to use any credits or was it simply going into the menus?

 

I've been doing a little bit more research onto where and what I need to enter on the OBDeleven - I'm looking for Control unit Gateway (19), Adaptation, Battery adaptation and then enter in the different values there.

 

It seems like the most important aspects are the battery size 69Ah to 70Ah, the battery type EFB to AGM (or Fleece on the system), the Battery Manufacturer (Funnily enough when I took this screenshot it has JCB listed despite having a Banner battery which incidently should be BA2) and then the serial number (doesn't seem serious at all since it's all 1's instead of the actual serial number but it must be different to the default).

 

It seems like the BEM is a similar code consisting of all the above but I do not believe I would need to enter it if I'm using the Battery adaptation method.

 

Of course there's the physical side of it first, removing the negative connection first, then positive, then connect the positive, then negative, turn the engine on, full steering lock side to side, (drive for a bit?) then battery adaptation.

 

Edited 3 March, 2023 by SomethingSuperbly

[JR RS]

@SomethingSuperbly- i have the pro version of OBDEleven.

 

I never use the app credits, never will.

 

Adaptations and long codings only for me, that way I know exactly wat is being done at every step.

[BillyParker]

@SomethingSuperbly, I have the pro version. Did adaption through gateway 19 like  you say. Mine is AGM so changed type to 'Fleece', for the battery serial number I put in the date preceded by zeros ie 15 Dec 2022 would be 0015122022. I have used the app credits for a couple of things, like increasing number of comfort flashes, more responsive throttle, and had no problems.

[nta16]

Mine was done on a OBDEleven, from EFB to AGM ("Fleece"), altered Ah and added one to lazy factory entry for serial number and although not important the make was changed, put in as BOSCH, and shows as 'BOS' on another scan tool.

 

The coding was done a few days after the battery was fitted and the AGM battery fully charged with a battery charger before being fitted.  That was all 20 months ago and all seems fine.

 

The battery was recharged around Xmas as my wife uses the car on lots of very short journeys.

 

Print out below from OBDEleven 'coding' the battery.

 

Edited 4 March, 2023 by nta16
spelling

[SomethingSuperbly]

Great thank you guys for your posts.

 

It seems pretty simple though unfortunately it seems like I'll need to get the 1 year Pro subscription in order to do any adaptations.

 

In the past Voltas had a one off "lifetime" Pro subscription, gave free credits via ads and even had a cheap option to upgrade to Pro from the Play Store. But it seems like that's all changed now. Feeling a bit gutted I didn't get it back then and it leaves me in a bit of a pinch - there's a garage nearby that can probably install it from £20.

 

As for the BEM number seems like there's a specific way of getting it done if the battery doesn't have it on the label, not that I think the Superb needs it.

 

Seems like it starts off with the 10 digits for the battery product no, (if it's 9 digits end with a space), then the make code (Banner = BA2, Varta = VA0) and then the year (YYMMDD) and the last 4 digits of the battery's serial, unless it ends in a Q then the first 4 digits of the last 5 digits.

 

[nta16]

1 hour ago, SomethingSuperbly said:

As for the BEM number seems like there's a specific way of getting it done if the battery doesn't have it on the label, not that I think the Superb needs it.

 

Seems like it starts off with the 10 digits for the battery product no, (if it's 9 digits end with a space), then the make code (Banner = BA2, Varta = VA0) and then the year (YYMMDD) and the last 4 digits of the battery's serial, unless it ends in a Q then the first 4 digits of the last 5 digits.

Personally I'd not worry about any of that as it seems to me that was about VW statics and monitoring any warranty claims, probably so they could get money back off the battery supplier.

 

As you can see from my previous post my wife's battery was just listed at the factory with supplier (JCB for Moll battery) and serial number of all the ones, the same as I've seen others report so it makes a nonsense of any codes really being required.

 

Perhaps there might be someone near you that would do the 'coding' for less than £20, map of VCDS owners. - https://tinyurl.com/yn6mmtyk

 

[BillyParker]

@SomethingSuperblyI think you only need credits for OBDeleven if you use their built in apps. The adaptation for the battery doesn't need credits if I recall.
If so you won't need to buy the Pro version

[SomethingSuperbly]

7 hours ago, BillyParker said:

@SomethingSuperblyI think you only need credits for OBDeleven if you use their built in apps. The adaptation for the battery doesn't need credits if I recall.
If so you won't need to buy the Pro version

 

It doesn't require credits if done by that way but unfortunately I need to be on an active Pro or Ultimate subscription to make any adaptations.. I just checked and I can see the fields where I can change them but there's a red padlock on the bottom which I imagine would otherwise allow me to save the changes.

 

@nta16 Thanks for the link, there are two members nearby so I might give them a shout and see if they're willing to help.

 

 

[Pessimal]

Wanting to change my 220tsi battery and had assumed it was an agm, but it appears to be an efb type battery.

What happens if I upgrade to agm and dont code it in (I dont have any tools, and don't know anyone round sunderland who does)

 

Does it just not use the full capacity of the battery, or is it going to throw errors?

Thanks

[varooom]

Have you already got the new battery?

What is the Ah rating on both batteries?

[BillyParker]

i think if you change from EFB to AGM it is best to get it coded. EFB is coded EFB and AGM coded Fleece. Don't think AH is so critical, maybe only 67ah tp 70ah. ( Disclaimer I'm probably wrong)

[nta16]

@Pessimal following on from the questions varoom asked you, if you get (got) a new EFB battery of the same Ah (near enough?) you could try as others have done and just fit it and use the car leaving the car's computer program to work it out, provided you haven't run the existing battery so low that the dash is lit up like bonfire night and there's loads of unseen error codes in that case you might have to drive the car on a journey or two for things to settle.  Better and quicker to have things sorted would be to 'code' the new battery in and clear any/all error codes just to keep all the computers' programs happy quicker.

 

If you just fit an new AGM in place of an EFB the computer program will running things for the wrong type of battery and probably shortening its expensive life more.

 

As with SomethingSuperbly, and as I did, have look at VCDS owners and see if someone can help you with 'coding' or buy the AGM battery from somewhere that also 'codes' the battery (they won't clear any error codes, if there are any, though unless its a garage).

 

Perhaps there might be someone near you that would do the 'coding', map of VCDS owners. - https://tinyurl.com/yn6mmtyk 

 

Edited 5 March, 2023 by nta16

[Pessimal]

I'll go for an EFB then, seems to be no one around here active on the vcds map.

 

I am assuming that as mine has done 5 years this new one should last as long.

 

i am slightly surprised though that others have an agm battery in the same model and I have an efb!

[nta16]

31 minutes ago, Pessimal said:

I am assuming that as mine has done 5 years this new one should last as long.

Are you sure you need a new battery or does your existing battery just need a full recharge using an appropriate battery charger and maintainer now and in future before the car battery gets too low again.  The battery may need a long or very long recharge preferably on a lower rate charger than higher rate (see your Owner's Manual for more detains) but the lower the slow to get to fully recharged, however if required you could do the full recharge in a perhaps couple of sessions (or more) if you run out of time at first attempt.

 

Simply driving the car is not always enough to fully recharge the battery depending on the journey(ies) and battery use and the state of charge of the battery.

 

Once fully recharged and kept from going too low in charge again you could get many more months or a year or two more perhaps out of your existing battery - depending on how much and how often you get and keep the battery charge too low.

 

If you want to replace the battery anyway then not allowing the new battery to get too low in charge and if/when required using a battery charger and maintainer as a preventative rather than always restorative measure might well see your next battery last longer than 5 years.

 

Do bear in mind your car's charging system also has to be in good order and that it's 5 years older at the start of the new battery's life than the previous battery but usually the charging systems are good for many years.

 

[Pessimal]

Far as I can tell the battery is OK, but the car seems to stop/starting less often, so my assumption would be that the battery is starting to decline and may need changing.

 

That thought has been pushed on due to the fact that we are due to be on the nc500 this time next week, and the forecast is for below freezing temps, with a good chance of snow, and I dont fancy being stranded In a remote part of Scotland thanks to a dodgy battery!

 

That car did a run down  to Leeds from Newcastle last weekend, and from my multimeter I am seeing about 12.3 to 12.4v with the car off.