1.5 Tsi Power Cutting Out

[chieflordy]

On 20/04/2024 at 20:14, Rooted said:

@ken2  The issue is that 'They do not all do it',  only the ones that do do.

 

So no point going with the same old that Skoda Dealership Staff might spout 'They all do that', because if they do the DfT / DVSA better get VW Group doing a safety critical recall.

& resolve the fault as they had to with the 'Lack of torque recall'. 

 

The other Dealership rubbish from some is 'Never heard of that before',  so be sure your issue is logged and with Skoda / VW UK, and with DVSA. 

There are contacts for them when there are safety concerns.

Engine cutting out suddenly while still moving does sound like a serious safety defect by this definition. I’ll be interested to hear how you both get on with your local dealers and Skoda head office in particular. 

[ken2]

1 minute ago, chieflordy said:

Engine cutting out suddenly while still moving does sound like a serious safety defect by this definition. I’ll be interested to hear how you both get on with your local dealers and Skoda head office in particular. 

Hi chieflordy,

Will certainly post any findings from Skoda but I am not booked in until late may.

Ken2

[StEdmund]

I am very disappointed to read all this. My Karoq is from MY19, one of the earlier 1.5tsi models, and it suffered from the kangarooing and cutting out.  For a period of about 6 weeks, Skoda took it off the road and loaned me a diesel Karoq Scout while awaiting the software fix; I suspect this was under pressure from DVSA after a number of complaints from drivers. My dealer would have been willing to accept things if I had rejected the car but, in every other respect the car suited me perfectly, so I was willing to wait for the fix. 

The fix arrived and more or less cured the cutting-out problem; in the last 4 years or so, it has cut out a few times - the most unnerving being a couple of months ago when it died as I pulled out of a junction. I sat there in the middle of the road looking like a lemon as an Audi driver passed round me hooting and shaking his fist - that's it mate, yeah, I did that manoeuvre deliberately just to annoy you!

I think, if I were living my life again, I would have rejected the car when I had the opportunity.

[ken2]

I have a 23 plate Skoda Karoq 1.5 TSI and it does the same as all the other posts on here, it cuts out randomly at junctions and roundabouts for no apparent reason when you still moving all be it slowly.

I have encountered many a scary situation on busy junctions and roundabouts.

Got it booked in next month with my skoda dealer hopefully they will find something.

I did mention that there were a lot of disgruntled owners with this same issue and i got the impression they no nothing of this happening.

[Avengers]

Make sure you record time and dates when the engine failed. Is it a manual or auto? 

 

I've had no luck at all returning the car and they cannot find the fault on the system so they have said there is no fault, which is total BS! However I've refused to have the car back so looking at a replacement, I believe it's only the manual version that has this fault?? 

[ken2]

2 minutes ago, Avengers said:

Make sure you record time and dates when the engine failed. Is it a manual or auto? 

 

I've had no luck at all returning the car and they cannot find the fault on the system so they have said there is no fault, which is total BS! However I've refused to have the car back so looking at a replacement, I believe it's only the manual version that has this fault?? 

Hi, yes I was told when I booked it in to record when it happens but it is quite random sometimes weeks between the stoppages.

It is a manual and as you say the auto ones are fine.

My car is on a 23 plate not quite a year old you say you have refused to have yours back, how do we stand with that.

[Avengers]

You'd have to speak to your dealership, if you've had it less than 30 days you can return for a full refund, if under 6 months and they can find the fault you have so many more options but if they can't find it, like my dealership can't then I'm afraid you're stuffed. I've had mine less than 6m but they can't find it.

 

They're putting me in a brand new auto version and admittedly doing me a good deal but I am still 0000's out of pocket, but I am not risking my family's life in an unsafe car.

[ken2]

6 minutes ago, Avengers said:

You'd have to speak to your dealership, if you've had it less than 30 days you can return for a full refund, if under 6 months and they can find the fault you have so many more options but if they can't find it, like my dealership can't then I'm afraid you're stuffed. I've had mine less than 6m but they can't find it.

 

They're putting me in a brand new auto version and admittedly doing me a good deal but I am still 0000's out of pocket, but I am not risking my family's life in an unsafe car.

Hi Avengers,

Thanks for your reply, mine is just short of a year so I suppose the best I can do is change it for a auto or go to a different car make and trade it in 

Ken2

[NottsIan]

An interesting theory from the troc forum referred to earlier https://www.trocforums.co.uk/threads/engine-cuts-out-when-driving….3254/post-40535

Quote

Using a dash cam, mounted to focus on the dash panel display, it was ready to capture more detail on the intermittent occasions when the engine cut out. Reviewing the recorded footage of these rare but ‘uncomfortable’ instances of cutting out, it appeared that the engine only stalled if the engine revs dropped marginally below the normal tickover speed, despite no sensation of the engine labouring or juddering before pressing the clutch pedal. That is to say, if in a higher gear and slowing to a low engine speed with the clutch still engaged before block-changing from, say, 5th to 2nd, should the engine revs have dipped only marginally below tickover before pressing the clutch pedal, the engine would just die mid gear change. This, of course, results in a ‘bump-start’ effect as the clutch pedal is released when the car still has some forward momentum in the newly selected gear, or, if the car has been braked to a complete halt because of prevailing traffic conditions after a similarly late press of the clutch pedal, the engine is likely to have stopped, with no power to immediately pull away again.
As an experiment I spent about an hour on some quiet local roads slowing down in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th (four times in each gear) as if, for example, approaching a red traffic light. I deliberately forced the engine revs to drop by leaving the clutch engaged and applied gentle brake pressure until about 700 rpm before disengaging the clutch. I would normally expect an engine to recover to its normal tickover speed if already turning over at close to 700 rpm, but this engine doesn’t; it just stops.
In 2nd, 3rd and 4th the engine stopped, but by keeping the clutch pedal pressed down the engine restarted itself within a second or two. However, repeating the same exercise in 5th and 6th gear, the engine cut out and did not restart itself despite the clutch pedal remaining pressed down. Instead, the engine remained dead and the dash panel showed “Please start the engine manually”.
I repeated the same procedure again numerous times, but only forced the engine to drop into the range of about 720-770 rpm. On each of these occasions the engine did not stall as I pressed the clutch pedal. It returned immediately to its normal tickover speed.

 

That would explain why the problem doesnt affect DSG vehicles. They automatically shift down as you slow down and ultimately as you come to a stop, the clutch will disengage before the revs drop below any limit. Similarly, when starting off, the DSG will automatically slip the clutch to keep the revs up.

Edited 24 April by NottsIan

[Ootohere]

It does not slip the clutch to keep the revs up. 

It is a dsg.  As to disengaging before stopping, it might be coasting before stopping. some will turn the engine off before stopping, and the 1.5 TSI ACT might well be in 2 cylinder mode as you roll on forward until actually stopped and the brake pedal pushed.  Then Stop / Start if not switched off, Autohold on vehicles with an e-brake. 

[NottsIan]

Quote

It does not slip the clutch to keep the revs up. 

Ok, bad choice of words, but it most certainly controls the speed at which the clutch engages fully, in order to avoid the revs dropping below the limit at which it would stall.

[chieflordy]

1 hour ago, NottsIan said:

An interesting theory from the troc forum referred to earlier https://www.trocforums.co.uk/threads/engine-cuts-out-when-driving….3254/post-40535

 

That would explain why the problem doesnt affect DSG vehicles. They automatically shift down as you slow down and ultimately as you come to a stop, the clutch will disengage before the revs drop below any limit. Similarly, when starting off, the DSG will automatically slip the clutch to keep the revs up.

I am fairly certain it is related to this, issue occurs for me when slowing down to a near stop from a relatively high gear, ie in 4th or 5th and slowing down for a roundabout or lights. Revs are obviously low in 4th or 5th when slowing down to 10mph, when I dip the clutch to select 1st or 2nd revs drop below 800 and engine cuts out. Annoying thing is it doesn’t happen every time and is hard to replicate.

[ken2]

1 hour ago, chieflordy said:

I am fairly certain it is related to this, issue occurs for me when slowing down to a near stop from a relatively high gear, ie in 4th or 5th and slowing down for a roundabout or lights. Revs are obviously low in 4th or 5th when slowing down to 10mph, when I dip the clutch to select 1st or 2nd revs drop below 800 and engine cuts out. Annoying thing is it doesn’t happen every time and is hard to replicate.

Hi chieflordy,

Interesting theory from nottslan as that is the way I drive, will have to give it a go going down the gears one at a time.

Ken2

[MrAdamwood]

Why are you all driving like this? I don't see the value in allowing the gear selection to drag the engine speed so low? you're not doing your cars any favours? I get that you think you are using engine braking, but at the expense of the engine? brakes are cheaper than an engine!

Dip the clutch earlier, use your brakes and select your gears correctly, who slows down in 5th and block changes to 2nd!?

 

Be interesting to know the average age of people experiencing this "issue". 

[ken2]

Hi Adamwood,

Good point, certainly wasn't taught to drive that way many years ago it just seemed to happen some years ago and have started using the gears as taught with the hope it will help with the problem a lot of us are experiencing.

[chieflordy]

Being in too high a gear on the approach to a hazard, be it a junction or roundabout is actually the opposite of engine braking, slowing down by using the gears would be engine braking. That said rather like Ken2 I am going to make a conscious effort to keep the revs higher and will report back in due course.

[sussamb]

13 hours ago, MrAdamwood said:

... who slows down in 5th and block changes to 2nd!

 

I do if necessary, even 6th to 1st, it's how I was taught on numerous advanced and blue light courses. My 1.5 manual has never stalled either ...

[Avengers]

By way of an update for my issue, the car has now been given back to Skoda and I've got a brand new DSG version. I assume they will resale this to some other poor sod instead of keeping it off road.

 

I can bet my yearly wage there will be some sort of recall this year or next but if course according to skoda 'there is no fault'

 

I may be financially out of pocket but that's worth not having the fear of an accident everytime I come to a roundabout.

 

Good luck all.

[Routemaster1461]

I have had mine stall a few times. I learned in the 60s when most cars didn't have synchromesh 1st gears, and it was difficult to slow and select 1st gear without stopping. This means that I have a habit of slowing down then trying to move away in second gear. This is when I stall it. I watch a lot of driving instruction videos and on those the drivers almost always select first gear whilst still moving. I will try to adjust my driving style to prevent a recurrence.

[chieflordy]

1 hour ago, Avengers said:

By way of an update for my issue, the car has now been given back to Skoda and I've got a brand new DSG version. I assume they will resale this to some other poor sod instead of keeping it off road.

 

I can bet my yearly wage there will be some sort of recall this year or next but if course according to skoda 'there is no fault'

 

I may be financially out of pocket but that's worth not having the fear of an accident everytime I come to a roundabout.

 

Good luck all.

sounds like a good outcome, hopefully they gave you a good price for yours and a decent discount on the new DSG one so you are not too much out of pocket, regardless, as you say though safety comes first!

[NottsIan]

I did some tests and made observations on my DSG car yesterday. Its just about impossible to get the rpm to drop below the tickover 800rpm. Even if you select Manual mode in a high gear and then brake, the DSG will still change down before the revs drop below the 800 rpm. So in effect the DSG is pre-empting any anti-stall system that would appear to be faulty in the manual versions.

This is my first DSG vehicle, previous ones have always been manual (albeit not VAG 1.5tsi) and whilst my driving style would have been similar to others, in slowing in a high gear, I have never had a problem with any of my vehicles stalling.

[Bikerp]

Had my Kamiq Monte Carlo 1.5 TSI manual 3 weeks, when moving slowly (turning right across approaching traffic,) I've had it stop and leave me stranded across a junction with a wagon incoming.

I'm in 1st gear slipping the clutch and after driving and riding motorbikes for 40+ years I've got lots of experience in how vehicle's behave and this is very odd.

I've gone to the Skoda dealership literally 10 min after this incident occurred insisted on a diagnostic check to be told no errors seen.

Now it's either me or a software issue iny opinion, the car has had a download from the factory and I will keep you posted.

[Missph]

I’m taking my Karoq in tomorrow to be looked at, so I’ll report back on what Skoda says. I’m also going to show them this thread (and others I’ve found). 

[Ootohere]

@Missph  Who do you expect to look at Internet / Social Media / Forum posts, the Service Desk Receptionist or the Master Tech?

'They all do that',  or 'Never heard of that before'.

Because they are selectively Deaf, Dumb or Blind. 

 

They work with Skoda's full time.  This is the Technicians occupation. 

 

If there is a TPI then fine, if there are Logged Fault Codes, well who knows.   

Who does know is VW UK, Skoda UK & Skoda CZ.

 

If they make out there are no issues and have never heard of issues then that is because Dealership Technicians are not telling them.

 

Be sure you tell VW UK / Skoda UK and the DVSA about the issues you are having.   They care not what you tell them about other people. 

[Missph]

I’m going to mention it up front, but print some stuff out to start waving in their face when they inevitably start saying there is nothing wrong with the car. I’d rather have evidence from others that the issue exists outside of myself, rather than say nothing on it.