1 hour ago, R_Blue said:

Our cars have 54mm piston. Increased piston size results more pedal travel.

 

Uh...No.

 

1 hour ago, R_Blue said:

The only thing keeps me from doing this conversion is the wheel size requirement.

 

teflontom has 14 or 15" wheels?

6 hours ago, R_Blue said:

The stock brakes are barely enough in hot summer days.

Your pad material is barely enough not the brakes.
Its as simple as that https://www.ebcbrakeshop.co.uk/ebc-yellowstuff-brake-pads-dp4438r_p23485577.htm

Edited 17 January, 20251 yr by Thefeliciahacker

On 17/01/2025 at 12:53, D.FYLAKTOS said:

teflontom has 14 or 15" wheels?

15"

Another user with the conversion has 14".

 

20 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Your pad material is barely enough not the brakes.
Its as simple as that https://www.ebcbrakeshop.co.uk/ebc-yellowstuff-brake-pads-dp4438r_p23485577.htm

 

The brakes are powerful enough to lock the front wheels but that doesn't mean there is enough heat dissipation.

 

It's all about heat dissipation.

 

Secondly;

This is something about the needs of a particular user.

Load condition,heavier car, driving on mountains and hills etc.

I know, I need better brake cooling.

 

Exotic brake pads which can withstand to higher temps don't provide what I really need. They doesn't solve the problem. Just hide it or lets say, patch it in a way.

 

Think about the whole system about heat dissipation ability not just the brakes. (14" wheels will soak more heat).

236mm solid discs + 13" wheels + exotic brake pads VS 256mm Vented discs + 14" wheels + ordinary brake pads.

The second setup will always win.

 

Thinking about the costs.

One must find and pay premium for exotic pads every time they need a brake pad change.

 

If I consider that, 256mm disc upgrade with the wheels will pay itself in the long run. 😉

On 17/01/2025 at 09:46, R_Blue said:

The only thing keeps me from doing this conversion is the wheel size requirement.

Currently I have two sets of 13s. One set for winter and one set for summer. Plus the one spare tire sits in the trunk.

If I do this, I'll need 9 wheels and tires. @ 14".

 

I think there was also an option for vented discs of the original size, with calipers from sierra/fiesta? But I don't know if there are some proper discs available.

4 hours ago, R_Blue said:

256mm Vented discs + 14" wheels + ordinary brake pads

 

I wouldn't say ''No'' to 256mm vented discs + 14" wheels + EBC yellow stuff pads.

The problem (at least here in GR) is that you can not go to a brake shop and say to mechanic: "the brake calipers from the X brand model fit in Felicia, here are them plus the discs+pads, go install them".

There is not a ''guide'' as ''how to" in the internet or a well-known patent which many drivers have done so almost everybody technician knows that works for sure.

Also remember the tyres are a very important component of the braking system (and steering and suspension systems) so good quality appropriate tyres in good condition and inflation will perform better than tyres that are old and worn or gone hard from lack of regular use.  Also the condition of the brake fluid needs to be considered especially under arduous use.

 

Edited 19 January, 20251 yr by nta16
spelling

23 hours ago, R_Blue said:

The brakes are powerful enough to lock the front wheels but that doesn't mean there is enough heat dissipation.

 

It's all about heat dissipation.

Exactly the reason i sent the link

23 hours ago, R_Blue said:

236mm solid discs + 13" wheels + exotic brake pads

This setup will always win, always always always, ordinary pads are so much inferior to "exotic"

23 hours ago, R_Blue said:

14" wheels will soak more heat)

thermal conductivity between hub and rim is poor

23 hours ago, R_Blue said:

One must find and pay premium for exotic pads every time they need a brake pad change.

who cares its a plug and play replacement costing 150 euros each 50.000km 30cent per 100km, I would gladly take that
 

29 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

thermal conductivity between hub and rim is poor

 

The Brake Cooling Ducts won't help?

 

 

Škoda Felicia VanPlus 1.3MPi Nürburgring

 

Front brake Ford Sierra caliper and Clio williams 260mm disc, stock pads.

 

4 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

The Brake Cooling Ducts won't help?

they do help given enough velocity

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Škoda Felicia VanPlus 1.3MPi Nürburgring

 

Front brake Ford Sierra caliper and Clio williams 260mm disc, stock pads.

czechino is a very good driver

Quote

Front brake Ford Sierra caliper and Clio williams 260mm disc, stock pads.

 

https://kitspares.co.uk/products/reconditioned-front-calipers-standard-sierra

 

Pair of fully reconditioned  Front Callipers Ford Sierra (Standard).

To suit vented brake discs. (2400mm Discs)

 

But here says 240, so Czechino which brake caliper installed?

The list is long !

https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/spare-parts/ford/brake-calipers/sierra.html

 

😲

On 18/01/2025 at 18:50, Papez said:

 

I think there was also an option for vented discs of the original size, with calipers from sierra/fiesta? But I don't know if there are some proper discs available.

That would be awesome. But I couldn't find a matching disc so far.

 

13 hours ago, nta16 said:

Also remember the tyres are a very important component of the braking system (and steering and suspension systems) so good quality appropriate tyres in good condition and inflation will perform better than tyres that are old and worn or gone hard from lack of regular use.  Also the condition of the brake fluid needs to be considered especially under arduous use.

Exactly.

There are parts you can try to save in a car but tires are definitely not among them. I always try to find the best tires available on the market. Because without ABS, you need the best tires. Unfortunately, for 13" you can't always find the same options provided in higher sizes. That's another reason why I'm considering switching to 14".

I also regularly change the brake fluid. It makes a difference in brake response.

 

13 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

This setup will always win, always always always, ordinary pads are so much inferior to "exotic"

The crazy guy, who is driving that Felicia VanPlus doesn't think like that.

I also don't think like that.

If better brakes are needed and if it's possible to upgrade fundamental components, I upgrade them first then think about exotic pads, cross drilled rotors etc.

 

13 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

thermal conductivity between hub and rim is poor

It can be improved. Every little bit helps. This is not the main subject.

 

13 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

who cares its a plug and play replacement costing 150 euros each 50.000km 30cent per 100km, I would gladly take that

The disc size and caliper upgrade is also a plug&play replacement if you find the right parts.

And it will cost lower than €150 if you already have "14s and doing the job yourself.

 

After doing this upgrade, if I really think there is a need for more, I'd consider buying exotic discs, pads etc.

 

12 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

The Brake Cooling Ducts won't help?

Of course!

We are thinking likewise.

They can help but it will require lots of planning, crafting and testing.

 

From Wikipedia:

Quote

The 2CV design predates the invention of disc brake, so 1948–1981 cars have drum brakes on all four wheels. In October 1981, front disc brakes were fitted.^[65] Disc brake cars use green LHM fluid – a mineral oil – which is not compatible with standard glycol brake fluid.^[122] The disc brakes were forced-air cooled by ducts drawing air from the engine fan housing, greatly reducing the likelihood of the brakes to overheat or fade in heavy use – especially during long descents in hot summer conditions in the Alps and other mountain regions.

Interesting.

 

At the end of the last summer I was working on a project with a different approach. I didn't finish it though. Just prototyping.

This is mostly for cosmetic appearance. But, why not add some function too? You know, every little bit helps.

 

 

Inspired from Lancia Delta Integrale Evoluzione HF Rally car and Mercedes W124 wheel caps.

 

11 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Škoda Felicia VanPlus 1.3MPi Nürburgring

 

Front brake Ford Sierra caliper and Clio williams 260mm disc, stock pads.

Good find.

I respect the skill and effort of the driver.

 

7 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

But here says 240, so Czechino which brake caliper installed?

The list is long !

If I make a similar conversion one day, I'll share the details.

6 hours ago, R_Blue said:

That would be awesome. But I couldn't find a matching disc so far.

 

I looked up Clio discs and apart from the main diameter, they appear to have same dimensions as the Williams variant, which is usually used for 260mm conversion.

You can check ATE catalogue, PN 420125.

 

Problem with the Clio discs is, that they require spacers under the brake calipers, because they are 5mm shallower than the stock discs. That may also require spacer under wheels or different ET.

Czechino answered:

 

Quote

Callipers from sierra 2.0 DOHC and rotors from clio williams 259mm

 

So, brake calipers from Ford Sierra Sedan 2.0 i DOHC Gasoline 115 PS ,year 1991 - 1993 am i right?

and vented discs from Renault Clio like this?

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/delphi/259664

11 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Because without ABS, you need the best tires.

Don't over rate ABS in normal driving conditions, in normal conditions ABS more compensates for poor quality driving.

 

 

11 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Unfortunately, for 13" you can't always find the same options provided in higher sizes.

If you were in the UK I could possibly recommend a tyre from a very small independent which are great and not high priced.  I know exactly what you mean about 13" tyres but there were still some very good ones in that size but you have to look away from the usual mass market advertising.  If there is a motor sport club for standard or near standard road going Felicias or similar cars then looking at their approved tyres list can bring very useable road tyres.  What size tyres do you use?

 

Tyres and brakes unfortunately are also fashion items on cars and there is a great market for them, tyre tread patterns operated in a similar way to having this season's most fashionable dress, with brakes beyond a certain point it gets into sexy big-boys toys with added nerd appeal, the number of drilled holes and their patterns, some of this might be relevant at higher levels of track use but it's often more about mimicking, one-upmanship and perhaps some sort of worship when applied to road cars.  This bit in the world at least is free so whatever someone wants or needs or thinks they need it's all fine, as always each to their own.

 

Forgot to put - I like the look of that hub cover, I can't think it would do much about heat.

 

7 hours ago, nta16 said:

Don't over rate ABS in normal driving conditions, in normal conditions ABS more compensates for poor quality driving.

Ah yes you are the one of those who think they can beat the machine. YEAH OKAY good luck

I do not understand why you guys try to improve something in such a way as to include multiple untested and non homologated parts in an unproven experimental setup because people have managed to live through their brake mods to come up and tell the tale they are better.
As a fellow driver on the road, I'm much less afraid of @R_Blue brakes fading than czechinos or similar SUPER DUPER ULTRAWIDE 43" F1 CARBON VENTED HEXA PISTON ULTIMATE setup failing. Because guess what they are not type-approved nor will they ever be.

 

In fact sp-el who take themselves seriously always mention that their performance brake parts are not to be used on the street as they are ILLEGAL. NO HOMOLOGATION = UNSAFE = UNPROVEN = ILLEGAL = DANGEROUS
 

Edited 20 January, 20251 yr by Thefeliciahacker

7 hours ago, nta16 said:

Tyres and brakes unfortunately are also fashion items on cars and there is a great market for them, tyre tread patterns operated in a similar way to having this season's most fashionable dress, with brakes beyond a certain point it gets into sexy big-boys toys with added nerd appeal, the number of drilled holes and their patterns, some of this might be relevant at higher levels of track use but it's often more about mimicking, one-upmanship and perhaps some sort of worship when applied to road cars.  This bit in the world at least is free so whatever someone wants or needs or thinks they need it's all fine, as always each to their own.

Ah yes you are one of those who think that the billions spent on tyre engineering are useless, not to mention that the most important performance upgrade we have managed to perform on the automobile in the last 30 years is the improvement of tyres.
Well no for 13 or 14 inch tyres you can only find absolute and utter crap or good but very old MY tyres (see my Turanzas T005 which are already a 7-year-old model). Tires above 16inches are currently they only ones that follow the advancements

Edited 20 January, 20251 yr by Thefeliciahacker

20 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Ah yes you are one of those who think that the billions spent on tyre engineering are useless, not to mention that the most important performance upgrade we have managed to perform on the automobile in the last 30 years is the improvement of tyres.
Well no for 13 or 14 inch tyres you can only find absolute and utter crap or good but very old MY tyres (see my Turanzas T005 which are already a 7-year-old model). Tires above 16inches are currently they only ones that follow the advancements

I think it's a language thing you seem to have totally misinterpreted or misunderstood.

 

I don't know what's available as regards tyres in Greece but I do know about 13" and 14" tyres available in the UK having used them for many decades on various vehicles and having bought and changed tyres sets many times above what most would do I neither favour old designs or the very latest design I favour what is best for the vehicle (and my driving) at that time.  I also have friends and fellow club members with  a wide variety of cars from brand new top end to mundane "classics" going back many, many decades.  These people actually drive these cars, some on tracks too.  If you notice I always stress the importance of tyres and often put what a complex car component tyres are.

 

I also know about glorified shopping trolleys having oversized wheels and tyres going back about a couple of decades so that 13" wheels have been out of fashion for a long time before such things would be a concern for you.

 

As you've been in the UK you'll know the saying "teaching grandma how to suck eggs", not being a qualified engineer doesn't mean someone is stupid just that they probably have less arrogancy. 😉

 

10 hours ago, nta16 said:

As you've been in the UK you'll know the saying "teaching grandma how to suck eggs", not being a qualified engineer doesn't mean someone is stupid just that they probably have less arrogancy. 😉

Mate I aint arrogant, I'm just here to ensure people don't get misinformed. Saying that you should get the tires that better fits your vehicle is wrong!
You more so should be saying, get the best tire you can buy, that happens to fit your vehicle.
I happened to have that exact argument with my father.
-I don't need the best tires as I never push the vehicle too hard or to its limits. I can get away with a lesser brand (he wanted a pair of Petlas)

-How many times in the previous week has ABS engaged? I asked

-3 or 4 he answered.

-Okay so 3 or 4 times not only DID you push the car to its limits but actually pushed beyond its limits.
Ofc he kept arguing but the point was that you want the actual limit of the vehicle to be as high as mechanically possible even if you use 1% of it 99% of the time.

Because that 1% of the time you will be glad you had that 99% limit reserve....

58 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Mate I aint arrogant, I'm just here to ensure people don't get misinformed. Saying that you should get the tires that better fits your vehicle is wrong!
You more so should be saying, get the best tire you can buy, that happens to fit your vehicle.
I happened to have that exact argument with my father.
-I don't need the best tires as I never push the vehicle too hard or to its limits. I can get away with a lesser brand (he wanted a pair of Petlas)

-How many times in the previous week has ABS engaged? I asked

-3 or 4 he answered.

-Okay so 3 or 4 times not only DID you push the car to its limits but actually pushed beyond its limits.
Ofc he kept arguing but the point was that you want the actual limit of the vehicle to be as high as mechanically possible even if you use 1% of it 99% of the time.

Because that 1% of the time you will be glad you had that 99% limit reserve....

We have a saying about people like him; "The man who never made a mistake never made anything".

1 hour ago, Paws4Thot said:

We have a saying about people like him; "The man who never made a mistake never made anything".

Oh I do make mistakes on a daily basis, I just analyze what went wrong so it doesn't happen again

 

2 piston brake calipers are too expensive:

https://apracing.com/performance-upgrades/performance-brake-calipers/2-piston-calipers

 

https://www.giefferacing.com/en/all-products/braking/brake-calipers/2-pistons-brake-calipers/cp6120-cp6121-cp6126/cp6120-2s0.ap-racing-2-piston-caliper-9035.html

Ø282mm x 12.7mm solid disc

 

https://www.gt2i.com/en/sport-brake-caliper/15135-ap-racing-2-piston-brake-caliper-disc-267mm-thickness-71mm-3661768824160.html

Ø267mm

 

Can't we use from Fabia?

SKODA FABIA VRS 5J front caliper