but I have never had any problems using supermarket fuel still return 45-48 in town with my Fabia.

Hi Skodaboy, you seem to be doing quite well with your new babe! Glad you like it. The other amazing thing is how surprised other people are when you tell them it's 'only' a 1422cc 3 cylinder engine! They can't believe it's performance is so good eh!

I know we have all spoken of this before in another thread, but that supermarket fuel thing is worth plugging away at frequently so everyone gets the message. For anyone that is unsure...the PD engines are not as badly affected by supermarket fuel as the CR engines, but mpg is affected. The fuel pump is the weak link on the CR's as supermarket fuel has had much of the lubricant (sulphur and some other elements) removed, but only basic lubes put back. This accelerates the wear on the pump bearings and seals and is currently responsible for most of the new engine pump failures in CR engines. Warnings are sometimes given in vehicle handbooks not to use supermarket fuel in case this happens. I don't know if this is has been done for the VW CR's. The PD engines do not have a separate pump of course and the unitary injectors are lubed by engine oil...much better!

However, supermarket fuel does tend to burn in a way that leaves some very nasty stuff in your engine and fuel system on diesel or petrol engines. This is because it only has basic 2nd grade cleaners in it. It's cheap for a reason! In the workshop, if we had an engine in bits with the head off, we could usually tell what fuel it has been run on, the differrence was amazing. Thick sticky brown carbon, soft in nature on injector tips, and even on pistons. Fuel systems with nasty sticky brown gunge in the lines and pump. This has the effect of lowering your fuel consumption and performance. It's worth making the extra effort to pick up some proper fuel from a proper garage in my honest opinion. After a couple of tank fulls, you will notice a difference and the extra miles per gallon will pay for any extra mileage you may have to put in to get the fuel in the first place. But the main advantage is better performance and running.

WARNING: if you haven't run it on good quality branded fuel before or for a long time, don't be put off by the fact that when you change to it from the supermarket fuel, your engine may feel a bit lumpy at tickover and may hesitate slightly during the first full tank or two that is used. This is normal and is the engine and fuel system cleaning itself. The rubbish passes harmlessly through your engine and after a couple of tankfuls or more, you will really really notice a difference in how it goes and runs.

Yeah I'm still enjoying the Fabia, I thought I had covered at least 1000 miles in it by now but according to my total mileage I've only covered about 600 miles in it in nearly two months!

Rest assured I will be writing a review very shortly.

I've stopped using the Tesco basic fuel but I believe and have read on the site that the Tesco 99 'Momentum' is up there with the quality fuels.

I've stopped using the Tesco basic fuel but I believe and have read on the site that the Tesco 99 'Momentum' is up there with the quality fuels.

That's good information Fatbloke.

Skodaboy, look forward to your review...

There is another thing worth mentioning....water!

Its surprising how much there is in fuel. Also when your tank is half full and its all warm in that tank (especially on diesels with the fuel return that warms the fuel), you would be amazed how much condensation forms that collects in your tank. I work in aviation and you would be amazed how much water you can drain off on a regular basis. I recently had problems on my motorcycle with a float valve stuck closed beacuse it was corroded even though I use it regularly. I now use a fuel additive on my motorcycle that allows the water to mix with the fuel and it all gets burnt. Its called wynns dry fuel. Bit of a rip off as its really only isopropyl alcohol and methanol. A small amount of IPA would do the same trick.

I dont know if our Fabias have a wonderful water separator built in. This may be a moot point if so however, for longevity of those high pressure pumps it cant be a bad thing to keep the water away.

Still really only use Esso in my Greenline, just happens to be on my route. Driving sensibly a real world figure (using pen and pencil) is just under 70 mpg. The onboard computer says 74...... . Current mileage 12,000. I used to get better mpg but I just dont have the patience. The leaden foot has crept back in.

All this misinformation about supermarket fuel is bizarre. I mean does anyone have any scientific results to prove that it is inferior and actually harms an engine. If this were true it would be front line news and the supermarkets would be sued back into corner shops.

All this misinformation about supermarket fuel is bizarre. I mean does anyone have any scientific results to prove that it is inferior and actually harms an engine. If this were true it would be front line news and the supermarkets would be sued back into corner shops.

I once stopped eating Kellogs cornflakes and bought 'supermarket' cornflakes. My insides got all bunged up and I got out of breath climbing the stairs....I also discovered that I only went half as far before craving a mars bar.

Conclusive proof wouldnt you say............ :p

Can anyone recommend a good additive for petrol that will clean injectors etc. ?

Millers would get my vote, not sure on what the petrol version is called but I use Millers Eco Max Diesel, so I'm guessing it would be called Millers Eco Max.

All this misinformation about supermarket fuel is bizarre. I mean does anyone have any scientific results to prove that it is inferior and actually harms an engine. If this were true it would be front line news and the supermarkets would be sued back into corner shops.

Hi windmiller,

In answer to your question...yes, there is plenty of engineering proof out there. It is not mis-information. All the mags have analysed and tested the fuels, and documented the effects of supermarket diesel over the last decade, petrol too. Many tests have proven that the fuel is inferior in every respect (recent tests on Tesco 99 excepted). I've seen for myself as a tech just how damaging the long term effects of using it can be (loss of performance, loss of good fuel economy, clogged fuel systems, poor running, carboned up injectors and valves). It happens slowly and you don't realise it's happening. Ford and some others are still considering whether to sue some fuel manufacturers over the number of fuel pump failures caused by the use of supermarket diesel during the warranty period. It plays havoc with some pumps. It's all well known. I've also been to the fuel distrubution depots to see how the fuel and additives are mixed. What goes into the supermarket mainstream stuff ain't good and only just meets the standard for uk fuel. No one is saying if you use supermarket fuel your engine will implode overnight. But some supermarket fuel is pretty poor in comparison to Shell or Esso for example.

Hi windmiller,

In answer to your question...yes, there is plenty of engineering proof out there. It is not mis-information. All the mags have analysed and tested the fuels, and documented the effects of supermarket diesel over the last decade, petrol too. Many tests have proven that the fuel is inferior in every respect (recent tests on Tesco 99 excepted). I've seen for myself as a tech just how damaging the long term effects of using it can be (loss of performance, loss of good fuel economy, clogged fuel systems, poor running, carboned up injectors and valves). It happens slowly and you don't realise it's happening. Ford and some others are still considering whether to sue some fuel manufacturers over the number of fuel pump failures caused by the use of supermarket diesel during the warranty period. It plays havoc with some pumps. It's all well known. I've also been to the fuel distrubution depots to see how the fuel and additives are mixed. What goes into the supermarket mainstream stuff ain't good and only just meets the standard for uk fuel. No one is saying if you use supermarket fuel your engine will implode overnight. But some supermarket fuel is pretty poor in comparison to Shell or Esso for example.

I am waiting for my new fabia estate to be built and have been reading other threads on supermarket fuels, my engine is going to be the 1.2 TSI DSG and would appreciate if using the supermarkets own super unleaded fuel would be as good as Shell or Esso. There is a Tesco near me but they are not selling their Tesco 99 yet, my nearest fuel station is the local Asda 1/4 mile away and the nearest Shell garage is 5 miles away, hence I don't use Shell.

Thanks in advance

Tesco 99 is very good stuff, the standard stuff is much less so. I had to fill up twice with Tesco 95 and the engine hated it. It rattled like a tractor at tick-over and had lost some performance when I got to the 2nd tankfull. After 2 tankfulls of Shell 95 these effects have disappeared, tick-over is quiet again and performance is back to normal.

From now on I will never use supermarket petrol unless I have no choice, my local Shell is normally the same price as Tesco anyway, so there's no price difference to worry about.

Most supermarket "super" is probably much the same as their 95, Tesco 99 seems the sole exception. Don't forget that this engine doesn't require the high octane fuel, it's perfectly happy on 95, but I would definately recommend you use Shell fuel, the car will thank you for it. Tesco is just down the end of my street and Shell is 2.5 miles away in the town centre, but I always go to Shell now.

Information about Tesco Momentum. You pay your money and take your choice :yes:

http://www.tesco.com/Momentum99/files/Tesco-Momentum-99-Fuel-Report.pdf'>http://www.tesco.com/Momentum99/files/Tesco-Momentum-99-Fuel-Report.pdf

http://www.tesco.com/Momentum99/

Admittedly they are comparing with their own 95 and not competitors fuel. I'm running my first tankful at the moment but as I do short journeys it is a slow process to get to any definite conclusion. I ran my last tank of fuel down to as low as I was confident to go and got a good 42 litres back in so this first fill up is at least 90% momentum fuel. The only observation so far is a smoother tickover from cold.

I had some time to kill before completing a few chores so decided to have a trawl on the net for some sort of answer to the supermarket fuel debate.

If you ignore all the 'personal opinions' and go for those who actually make and supply the stuff to the tankers one thing becomes obvious. Its all the same base stock. There may be some regional variation from different refineries but it really is all the same. All those Tesco/Morrissons/Shell/Texaco....blah blah all fill up from not only the same refineries but probably the very same nozzle.

The big difference is the additives. Every company has their own specific blend of additives. Just like you can use 'economy' washing up liquid or Fairy Liquid to clean your dishes the same goes for fuel additives. The decent ones are expensive and cost more....maybe up to a penny per litlre. They both clean you engine, one just does it better than the other. The additives also change the octane/cetane ratings. Some of these additives are more stable than others and therefore perform better.

No supermarket gets sued over their fuel because it clearly meets the required government standard, as they all do. The additives are not so regulated by law so therefore some suppliers of fuel either dont add them or put in sub standard additives. You really do get what you pay for.

I found some reports of cars run on supermarket fuel and a test vehicle run on top spec expensive fuel. They took the heads off after a while and clearly the supermarket fueled car had more crap in it. They ran this engine then on decent fuel and 2 tanks later it was all cleaned up fine.

I did discover that fuel does 'go off'' fairly quickly. A bit like the old lawnmower in the shed not starting after the winter, bung some fresh fuel in and its fine. Some of the high spec fuels actually leave the refinery with an octane rating or 102 !. This decays back over time, what it actually is as it goes in your tank depends on how old it is. Might be an arguement for filling up at busy garages.......damn thats supermarkets.

There you go, I have conclusivey proved nothing. Personally I wont fill up at the supermarket because I cant be bothered to queue. For the sake of a few pence here and there and a totally inconclusive result on which fuel is best I shall just keep filling up at Esso.....

Edited 16 October, 201015 yr by raisbeck

Ross, if I may ask, what miles has she on the clock now? Are you either....over using 5th gear or any of the higher gears eg. taking it too early and staying in it? It may perform a little like a diesel but it still doesn't give diesel economy even using the torque we found. Or...are you revving the n_ts off it? The Tesco fuel definitely doesn't help. A cleaner burning fuel is better.

Just over 1,200 and the MPG is getting worse!!!!

Started out being quite good at around 45-48 now its dropping like a stone, I switch up a gear when the little gear change light comes on and i use the cruise control a lot. I`ve noticed that is gone from initially revving at around 2,400rpm @ 70 to nearly 3,000rpm at the same speed and its getting more violent coming onto boost than it used to be - its as if the engine is being a bit strangled by something.

Think I will swtich back to Shell fuel once this tank is empty.

I`ve noticed that is gone from initially revving at around 2,400rpm @ 70 to nearly 3,000rpm at the same speed

That's not possible unless the clutch is slipping. It should do 2600rpm at 70mph.

Mine is quite violent coming on boost too, but only if I keep the foot down, you'll soon notice the economy drop if you boot it around like that all the time. My commute (8 miles) returns 39 - 42mpg if I drive normally. If I do the trip more quickly it will be 32 - 34mpg

Get it off the supermarket fuel

Just over 1,200 and the MPG is getting worse!!!!

Started out being quite good at around 45-48 now its dropping like a stone, I switch up a gear when the little gear change light comes on and i use the cruise control a lot. I`ve noticed that is gone from initially revving at around 2,400rpm @ 70 to nearly 3,000rpm at the same speed and its getting more violent coming onto boost than it used to be - its as if the engine is being a bit strangled by something.

Think I will swtich back to Shell fuel once this tank is empty.

Ross, if what you say is correct, I think a trip to your dealer for a chat about this is called for. You fuel consumption should not be getting substantially worse over what it was when you first got the car. You may have a minor induction/fuelling problem that needs sorting, very possibly a faulty sensor somewhere. And/or...you might just have an electrical problem. The tacho jumping like that can indicate this. Mike's correct, you clutch needs to slip to produce an increase in actual revs, this isn't going to happen on a new car unless you have a faulty clutch. I echo Mike's words too...get it off supermarket petrol!

Raisbeck...spot on with the research!

Its already been back to the dealership once about a problem I had with the brakes, but it feels like its being strangled at the moment so I will be running decent fuel in it once i empty this tankful.

Put it this way - I had a 205 GT as my first car that I had very heavily modified (twin webber 40s, exhaust, cams, headwork etc etc) and it would still do the same mpg as the Fab is doing even with me giving it welly and I don`t rag the Fabia as its a bit too rolly polly and new for me!

Have noticed that the onboard computer is reading about 5-6mpg more than I have worked it out as, it reckons I am doing about 38.5mpg.

Edited 17 October, 201015 yr by Ross Chapman

I have been running Common Rail Diesel engined cars on supermarket fuel for more than 9 years with not a problem.

I have also found and interesting answer from the AA back in 09.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1162949&page=2

and

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1162949&page=3

and this on the RAC website's forum about shell fuel saver.

http://www.rac.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=11214&highlight=diesel+fuel

Edited 17 October, 201015 yr by Dempsek

I have been running Common Rail Diesel engined cars on supermarket fuel for more than 9 years with not a problem.

I have also found and interesting answer from the AA back in 09.

http://forums.moneys...=1162949&page=2

and

http://forums.moneys...=1162949&page=3

and this on the RAC website's forum about shell fuel saver.

http://www.rac.co.uk...ght=diesel+fuel

Dempsek, if you exclusively or mainly used supermarket fuel for 9 years, how would you know if your engine/s were performing at peak level? I guarantee you engines would have very hardened amounts of carbon clinging to the vital parts that simply wouldn't be there if you used a branded fuel. This matters as it can shorten your engines life. Most damagingly, this carbon would be clinging to the valves, so much so that it will not be cleaned away by adding injector fuel system cleaner or running it on one of the better branded fuels. It actually needs a strip down to correct the problem, and this is what many many vehicles came into our workshop for, and it was always supermarket fuel that was the culprit. The cost of stripping the engines could be crippling to the owners. And this is the problem...acknowledged at one time by the motoring organisations, the 'dirty engine syndrome' builds up over a period of time without the owners realising it. As you have found out, your engine doesn't suddenly implode or explode or anything nasty because you run it on supermarket fuel, but just slowly degrades. Some engines are more affected than other, and todays very latest engines are more affected than your engines from 9 years ago whether petrol or diesel. That's why it's important to understand the problem.

Considering this is a subject that has had considerable press and tv coverage over the last decade or more, and continues to do so, it's surprising just how many misinformed opinions there are out there. But then again, I suppose people just put fuel in and drive it without a thought to what the engine is going through, that's normal for most of us.

PS. not having a go at anyone...

Edited 18 October, 201015 yr by Estate Man

In the bad old days 45+ years ago it was common to strip off the head of cars every two or three years and "de-coke" them - I remember it well - it wasn't a pleasant thing to do and those hard carbon deposits, (particularly thick on the inlet valves) used to be very difficult to remove sometimes.

I've just changed the oil on my sons Fabia 1.2 64bhp - late again - this time it ran about 14,000 miles. What I noticed was how gummy and sticky deep brown (for want of better words) the oil was. It also smelt quite strongly "aromatic" as if there were a lot of diluted byproducts in it. (I always use full synthetic longlife oil)

I put this down to the fact that my son now uses the local Jet station near him as it is as cheap as most. I know he also occasionally fills up at supermarkets.

I am inclined to agree with estateman that the gradual build up of unwanted residue in the form of carbon, lacquers etc is much more likely to occur in cheap fuels with weak additive packages - however I don't think this is exclusively a supermarket phenomenon. I think it affects most if not all "regular" fuels. The market is so competitive that all manufacturers trim the costs and its the additive that suffers.

Basically there only appear to be a handful of (if that) premium fuels that have a substantially better cleaning additive package.

I decided to top his car up with Shell V-Power (ouch!!! went my wallet!) as this claims aggressive cleaning additives. I did look first for BP ultimate, but the local garage only does an ultimate diesel - dont they do ultimate unleaded any more? Hopefully an occasional top up with a premium fuel will go some way to clean up a dirty engine.

I'd be interested in what estateman or any other workshop tech thinks of cleaning additives (in petrol and oil) such as Forte, Redex, Wynns etc etc. Are they just too risky to use in an engine that may or may not be badly coked or gummed up?

Edited 18 October, 201015 yr by xman

Xmans comments brings back memories of taking heads of to clean them.

Or in the case of Marina’s to replace the head gasket as it was always blowing.

In those days I used to use Redex additive which used to cost 1 old penny per shot.

Not sure if there is a modern equivalent which can be used every time you fill up

I am inclined to agree with estateman that the gradual build up of unwanted residue in the form of carbon, lacquers etc is much more likely to occur in cheap fuels with weak additive packages - however I don't think this is exclusively a supermarket phenomenon. I think it affects most if not all "regular" fuels. The market is so competitive that all manufacturers trim the costs and its the additive that suffers.

Basically there only appear to be a handful of (if that) premium fuels that have a substantially better cleaning additive package.

I decided to top his car up with Shell V-Power (ouch!!! went my wallet!) as this claims aggressive cleaning additives. I did look first for BP ultimate, but the local garage only does an ultimate diesel - dont they do ultimate unleaded any more? Hopefully an occasional top up with a premium fuel will go some way to clean up a dirty engine.

I'd be interested in what estateman or any other workshop tech thinks of cleaning additives (in petrol and oil) such as Forte, Redex, Wynns etc etc. Are they just too risky to use in an engine that may or may not be badly coked or gummed up?

Xman, that's very true about there being only a handful of premium fuels with substantially better cleaning additives in them. I use Esso all the time for my motorcycles and car. Never had any problems and my pistons and valves in one of my big bikes that has covered 123,000 miles were completely clean. I had the head off to replace a broken inner valve spring on a double valve spring setup. That' cleanliness is important as bike engines run very much hotter than car engines. Any fuel that doesn't clean properly will show up in a bike engine. It's actually ok to use engine fuel system cleaners. They do work and techs put them in during servicing quite often especially on diesel engines if they are starting to smoke. Petrol engines can benefit too. Just read the instructions and you'll be fine. As you will know, they won't remove the hardened carbon from valves and pistons if it has built up substantially. Cheaper fuel can taint the oil with it's blow by products over time.

John, I remember the Marina well. Blinking 'A' series engines with dodgy head gaskets especially. Lost count of how many engines I've decoked.

Back on topic: proud to say that I manage to get around 60 mpg on my Fabia Greenline estate (1.4TDI/DPF) averaged over the last 2000miles. Mostly long-distance, with few hops around town.

In town my driving style might make wrinklies look like Hamilton, but out of town I drive near/at the speed limit if reasonably possible.

Sometimes she gets (supposedly) high-quality stuff, but mostly whatever is available, including supermarket slosh.

Bommels, Welcome mate. We're all nuts on here...but I think you will find the site really useful. We all do. That's good going from your Greenline for a big mileage of mixed motoring and over such a big mileage measurement.