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Octavia III rear suspension - Have I got this right?


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Octavia I to Octavia II - Move upmarket, size up, price up, torsion beam rear suspension replaced by IRS in an attempt to keep up with Ford Focus driving experience.

Octavia II to Octavia III - Move upmarket, size up, price up, IRS suspension replaced by torsion beam. IRS only retains on most expensive models.

Now I am not opposed to a well located beam axle, in fact as far as FWD is concerned I recon Saab got it spot on with the 99 back in 1968, but given the retention of the IRS on expensive Octavia models it’s hard to see the torsion beam rear axle as anything other than cost cutting from VAG.

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The new Golf and Leon are the same, its not just the Octavia. They never really sorted out the IRS on the Octavia MK2, even today we read stories of sawtoothing tyres. At least the simpler setup should remove this complication.

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The new Golf and Leon are the same, its not just the Octavia. They never really sorted out the IRS on the Octavia MK2, even today we read stories of sawtoothing tyres. At least the simpler setup should remove this complication.

That's probably true but what is the ride going to be like when you're not on a lovely motorway?

Sent from my HTC

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If I understood it correctly it is done like that keeping in mind 90% of Octavia buyers will never feel the difference and the manufacturer will have a cheaper car to build, also a lighter car.

The ones who would tell the difference are mostly driving vRS models anyway. In a way it makes sense. Maybe not considering the price that has gone up.

Edited by reverse
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If I understood it correctly it is done like that keeping in mind 90% of Octavia buyers will never feel the difference and the manufacturer will have a cheaper car to build, also a lighter car.

The ones who would tell the difference are mostly driving vRS models anyway.

I can also see this advantage to be honest; from the persepctive of the company and the buyer. 75% of Octavia drivers on the road wont drive it like I would. Most of the ones I see are pootling around on A roads daily. Day to day driving id be amazed if it made a largely noticeable difference and if it did it would be in slight noise levels rather than handling differences at pootling speeds! Seeing as its a VAG decision that also affect the Leon and Golf also (A3 gets multilink on their lower powered models ie 122bhp 1.4tsi units I believe?!) we surely cant feel that left out! I think id also be quite happy to benefit from a 100kg weight saving if the car was going to be used as most of them are, also.

Having said all that, id probably prefer the multi link independant rear setup but thats just me! :giggle:

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If I understood it correctly it is done like that keeping in mind 90% of Octavia buyers will never feel the difference and the manufacturer will have a cheaper car to build, also a lighter car.

The ones who would tell the difference are mostly driving vRS models anyway. In a way it makes sense. Maybe not considering the price that has gone up.

If I thought it was done for lightness - OK(ish)

If I thought it was done to give more interior space - OK(ish)

If I thought it was done because VAG dont do IRS very well - They better learn how.

But it was done for cheapness plain and simple.

"The ones who would tell the difference are mostly driving vRS models anyway" - a bit insulting.

There are other reasons, beside not being sufficiently discerning, why some folk are driving an Octavia other than a vRS

Edited by Octy0GG
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As I understand it, on the Golf (new MQB platform) it is the lower powered models (anything under 140bhp) that get the beam axle rather than IRS so I'd assume the Octy will be the same.

As suggested it shouldn't make much difference to many drivers as road testers have reported that the bean set-up on the Golf is good, but is most definitely a cost-cutting exercise.

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As I understand it, on the Golf (new MQB platform) it is the lower powered models (anything under 140bhp) that get the beam axle rather than IRS so I'd assume the Octy will be the same.

But in Colin's post about specs, it states that the 2 litre diesels will have the torsion beam set up too and that is now 150 bhp.

Ian

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But in Colin's post about specs, it states that the 2 litre diesels will have the torsion beam set up too and that is now 150 bhp.

Ian

Apologies - my bad - on the Golf it is 122Bhp and above that get the IRS.

It is the same across the VAG group - there is a cut off somewhere and, my guess is that to differentiate a bit further across the makes they have adjusted the power cut off up for Skoda, provided that the 2 litre diesels being discussed are the 150's and not a lower power version for other non-uk markets (I recall the UK retains the 1.6).

However, the point I was trying to make was that the road tests of the Golf so far have indicated that the beam set up, whilst cheaper, is still very good, so is not necessarily too much cause for concern..

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As ever the test drive will provide the answer to the perspective buyer. No doubt some will not notice any difference and would prefer not to pay for the privilidge. SWMBO doesn't even notice when she's got the wipers on intermittant when it isn't raining (I kid you not!) and many people just look at a car as a means of getting around without having to walk or catch the bus! to them it won't be an issue either way

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No doubt some will not notice any difference ...

bit like the fact 80% of BMW 1 series drivers think they're car is FWD

The stero-typical punter, as the marketing people seem to be targeting, are more interested in MP3 and Bluetooth than how the car drives

The downside for us folks that like a decent handling car, is that the pool of decent cars shinks

Does seem a shame though, all that effort on the new chassis, and then to attach a torture beam to it

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I seem to recall, but will be corrected that the Honda Civic Type R had/had a rear beam set up, and it was also well received/reviewed?

Yes, and Ive really pushed one around my local country roads that I know very well and tbh - it was VERY capable and impressed me far more than I thought it would. :) Personally, I dont belive it to be the defining feature of a properly sorted car, handling wise.

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I seem to recall, but will be corrected that the Honda Civic Type R had/had a rear beam set up, and it was also well received/reviewed?

By hacks maybe. Years ago I used to drive Civic ESI and pondered both the regular Civic and the Type R when they came out with torsion beam. It took only a short test drive on twisty/hilly A507 to decide the torsion beam one was a shadow of the previous fully independent suspension one.

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As I understand it VAG aren't the only manufacturer doing this the Citroen DS5 does have torsion beam suspension as well and that starts at £22,700.

But I doubt most drivers will notice any difference.

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Very annoying that they set the cut off as high as 151bhp, when the only engine I would want is the 2.0d 150...

But effectively, thats their plan... they only want the higher powered models benefitting from it. ie the flagship VRS.

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The vast majority of car owners/drivers have no idea what rear suspension is.

Having said that, torsion beam has been well proven on some very fast cars. Both on road and on-track.

Moot point for me, I only buy 4wd versions and they'll all be IRS.

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Yes the torsion beam may be OK. And provided it can stand the fatigue loads it is even possible that you could sell it to me on the grounds of less to go wrong.

As an engineer, if cost cutting was a major factor in my design brief, then ditching IRS could almost be taken as read.

But what gets me is the is that we are constantly being fed the idea of the latest generation, more advanced, updated, newer, bigger, better, more sophisticated, latest technology – You need to get rid of your old outdated technology fast, don’t get left behind. Oh and you could hardly begrudge it if all these advances hiked the price a bit could you?

Let’s be clear the change we are getting here is a return to MK1 Octavia technology, the motivation is cost cutting.

I am aware of the cynical marketing strategy which would assume that the IRS in the expensive models would persuade buyers to pay more for a top of the range model. For the committed Skoda buyer there is another angle. – “If my new Octavia would have a beam rear axle – one less reason to pay the price premium over the Rapid”

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Everything and everyone is budget constrained. Set your budget and take the best you can get. If you can't find something to suit, revise your budget.

The only major downside IMO to torsion beams (yes fatigue was a concern in the early days, presumably that's sorted) is roll-stiffness can't be tweaked. Though I can't see many people wanting to actually reduce rear roll-stiffness.

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Lets not forget that the MK1 vRS was torsion beam, in the MK1 the only car with IRS was the 4x4. The MK1 vRS managed perfectly well with torsion beam, so I am sure the MK3 will be fine especially because the vRS will 99.9% have IRS. The rest of the range, dare I say it nobody will notice. The MK2 Octavia diesel I owned for some years with IRS felt no different to the vRS MK1 before it with Torsion beam.

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  • 4 years later...

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