1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[meta55b]

My friends 59 plate golf gti had just had the tensioner go. Let's just says he's not to happy is an understatement.

[shady-ninja]

I  took the car to the main stealers and they confirmed that the chain had slipped or collapsed and all the valves are bent.
they now want £9k,......................, YES, £9000 for a replacement engine.
I opened a case with Audi UK then the stealers offered a goodwill of 60% plus £300 towards servicing bringing the total to almost £4000.

that's still a lot of money.

Audi UK said they wont make any contribution because I did my last service outside the stealership network.  that's quite cheeky considering that I had three services with them.

[mcdeli]

How can you check the status of your tensioner?

Is there a diagnostic or error code for the chain tensioner or related parts?

Does the tensioner get inspected during services?

[JB-)]

How can you check the status of your tensioner?

Is there a diagnostic or error code for the chain tensioner or related parts?

Does the tensioner get inspected during services?

It isn't routinely inspected as there is no way to do this.

[briskycat]

How can you check the status of your tensioner?

Is there a diagnostic or error code for the chain tensioner or related parts?

If you have a VCDS cable you can find out how much you timing chain is stretched by looking at block 93 in the Engine/"Advanced Measuring Values" section as mentioned in this post: http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/?p=3842844

[JB-)]

That's still not an indication of the condition of the tensioner, or whether it will or won't fail.

[briskycat]

Well, that is an indirect indication of the condition of the timing mechanism as a whole.

[shady-ninja]

In the light of my current circumstances, what chances do I stand to get a bit more discount.

[mcdeli]

It isn't routinely inspected as there is no way to do this.

Related: how/where do you check for broken teeth - and do Skoda garages check?

...i am about to book my first service so I want to make sure I ask for the right things.

Edited 27 December, 2014 by mcdeli

[JB-)]

Related: how/where do you check for broken teeth - and do Skoda garages check?

...i am about to book my first service so I want to make sure I ask for the right things.

 

There's no way to check any part of the mechanism unless the timing cover on the end of the engine is removed. That's not a routine job, and even with it removed there is no way to tell that the tensioner is or isn't going to fail just by looking at it. If you're concerned, you have two choices: Have it replaced as a preventative measure, or sell the car. 

[DGW]

There is a third choice: purchase an extended warranty.

[mcdeli]

There's no way to check any part of the mechanism unless the timing cover on the end of the engine is removed. That's not a routine job, and even with it removed there is no way to tell that the tensioner is or isn't going to fail just by looking at it. If you're concerned, you have two choices: Have it replaced as a preventative measure, or sell the car.

You are a bundle of laughs!

The previously linked old post in this thread highlights checking a VCDS code that gives some idea of how tense the chain is, and that the chain can be checked for broken/missing teeth IIUC. I have an extended warranty. I got 6 six months from a dealer and paid for another 6 specifically because I wanted to hedge a little against this problem. I have 9 months left on the warranty. I also have 90k km service imminent.

I will rephrase. During my remaining warranty period what is the most cost effective way to find out if the cam chain tensioner is about to fail?

Edited 27 December, 2014 by mcdeli

[DGW]

There isn't any way to check if it is about to fail, and therein lies the problem. :(

[JB-)]

You are a bundle of laughs!

The previously linked old post in this thread highlights checking a VCDS code that gives some idea of how tense the chain is, and that the chain can be checked for broken/missing teeth IIUC. I have an extended warranty. I got 6 six months from a dealer and paid for another 6 specifically because I wanted to hedge a little against this problem. I have 9 months left on the warranty. I also have 90k km service imminent.

I will rephrase. During my remaining warranty period what is the most cost effective way to find out if the cam chain tensioner is about to fail?

 

If you think you know best then why the question. You go to your dealer and ask them to check for broken teeth on your timing gear. I just wish I could be there to hear the laughter. I've answered your question so why keep asking.

[stever750]

How on earth do you think you'd sense for "broken timing chain teeth" other than the timing chain fails? There are crank and cam shafts position sensors but nothing looking at teeth! Tbh, if you're that worried, buy a different car, and don't look it up on the Internet.

[mcdeli]

Do you guys do this routine every week or just for xmas?

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/page-17#entry3842844

 

I am confused, yes. A previous poster says "you can see how much the chain has stretched not only by physically inspecting the tensioner for how many teeth there are visible on the piston..."

 

So you can't "check for broken teeth", you can't "sense for broken teeth", there's nothing "looking at teeth" but you can "inspect how many teeth are visible on the piston".

 

Sorry, but it is not easy to interpret the info here and I certainly don't know best - I know nothing. On one hand a post says "there is no way to check if it is about to fail" but other posts say to check a code and inspect the tensioner. I am still just trying to make sure I get the best service next time.

[JB-)]

The is NO way to tell whether or not it is about to fail. All the VCDS check does is give an indication of how stretched the chain is, but that in reality is still meaningless. Even taking the cover off and visually inspecting the chain and tensioner tells you nothing about whether or not it will fail. You cannot achieve what you're trying to achieve. Your only options have been mentioned above.

[briskycat]

If timing chain is stretched too much it is likely to fail or cause a failure in timing mechanism. By being too loose for example.

What I don't get is how all these questions are related to the "Octavia Elegance 1.4 TSI"

[JB-)]

If timing chain is stretched too much it is likely to fail or cause a failure in timing mechanism. By being too loose for example.

 

Why? Where does it say that the more stretched the chain, the more likely the tensioner is to fail?

[briskycat]

Why? Where does it say that the more stretched the chain, the more likely the tensioner is to fail?

Because the tensioner has its operating range as far as I understand. I can't give you a reference unfortunately.

[JB-)]

Because the tensioner has its operating range as far as I understand. I can't give you a reference unfortunately.

 

When the tensioner fails, it retracts when the engine is stopped. I fail to see how its operating range has an impact on that. Why would it having been further out make it more likely to fully retract. Besides, it has more operating range than it should ever need. The chain would have to REALLY worn/stretched for the tensioner to be at its maximum range. Maybe there is something in the theory but at the moment I fail to see it. Conversely, using VCDS to indicate that the chain is not worn doesn't mean the tensioner won't fail. This VCDS thing doesn't prove anything regarding the chance of tensioner failure as far as I can see.

[briskycat]

When the tensioner fails, it retracts when the engine is stopped. I fail to see how its operating range has an impact on that. Why would it having been further out make it more likely to fully retract.

As far as I am aware, tensioner fails when one or several teeth on its ratchet snap off. If the ratchet is fine the tensioner never retracts too far when the engine stops. As to why the ratchet can break I can only guess. Maybe if the chain becomes too loose (because the tensioner it out of its range) it starts to vibrate too much which causes too much stress on the ratchet and it breaks.

[wedgeman]

Hi, having sold my 2007 TFSi less than 3 months ago and regretting it, i am now looking at the 2.0TSi Octavia's - it seems these tensioner failures have predominantly been on 2009/10 cars, would a 2012 model still be as likely to have the same failure in a couple of years time, or would it have been fitted with a revised tensioner on that year?

[briskycat]

Tensioners of the latest revision (06K 109 467 K) are installed since 05.03.2012. There have been no failure reports of this revision so far.

[mcdeli]

If timing chain is stretched too much it is likely to fail or cause a failure in timing mechanism. By being too loose for example.What I don't get is how all these questions are related to the "Octavia Elegance 1.4 TSI"

My understanding is that 1.4 TSI engines of this period with the cam chain have the same susceptibility to this, even though thd thread is titled 1.8/2.0

Edited 29 December, 2014 by mcdeli