Fabia VRS oil consumption..........What is acceptable?

[Ootohere]

Jabozuma,

They didn't winge,  

they were Audi owners, they were polite, they asked and they were dismissed by Audi Dealership staff, because '

'That is normal, it is a Sports Car, you can expect some Oil use while running in, & real Drivers just keep topping up the Oil!!'.

 

they suffered the same issues as many of the other 1.4 tsi Twinchargers,  

after all, the 1.4 TSI CAVE is the same Base Engine putting out a minimum 132-136 kW as the ones putting out less power and without a Supercharger fitted.

 

Giving the 'A1 185 1.4 TFSI' different Spark Pugs, Coils and Map changed nothing about the Base engine, the same weaknesses showed,

so it failed just the same in about the same percentage.

 

Audi A1 TFSI 185 ps Owners were fed the same Guff by Audi as VW, Skoda & Seat spouted.

Breather pipe / valve mod with an ECU update was to be the Solution, where in fact only a Revised Engine resolved some issues.

 

http://a1-forum.co.uk/a1forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10767

 

SOUND FAMILIAR !!

http://a1-forum.co.uk/a1forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30465

 

VORSPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK

 

george

[Jabozuma]

Yup, it does sound familiar:). What is not familiar is the chap in second link had thr WHOLE CAR replaced TWICE! Skoda does short engines instead...

[Sittingbull]

Just a wee quick update, apologies to SterlingMG again for taking over his thread.

 

Had to add 1 litre of oil yesterday with the odometer reading 23650, or 573 miles from last top up at 23077. Strange thing with this one is that the naked eye suggested the reading on the dipstick wasn't perhaps just as far down as on previous occasions, however the tale of the tape came in the topping up. Again, this was done when engine was cold. Again, there were no warning lights or dash messages, just me carrying out my regular checks.

 

Driving between top ups this time also a little different as this time tended to be more long runs on Motorway, A roads with a little town driving as both my wife and I are currently on holiday. Ordinarily the journeys would tend to be short, stop start types due to nature of my wife's job.

 

I'm keeping a detailed record, a case history of my own so to speak just in case there are any dramas with the forthcoming oil consumption test.

 

Can George or anyone else confirm that there is definitely one litre of difference between bottom and top of dipstick? I am taking great care during top up (to the extent my son asked if I was dripping it in) to ensure I don't overfill, but have to say that the oil level as per the dipstick has never actually been at or below the bottom orange ball before top ups. I'm just trying to make sure I can offer arguments to Gordon when the inevitable finally happens.

[Ootohere]

No i can not confirm that.

 

All i can say is that when the car had 3.6 litres in and above the Cross Hatch when Cold, & at the top of cross hatch Hot check.

 

When hot & there is oil on the orange ball, it took me 1.2 litres to get back to 3.6 litres of oil in the car,

& when i Removed the Oil not long after, i had 3.6 Litres near enough came out.

That was the Oil taken out by Vacuum Pump VIA the Dip Stick Tube, and including the Oil Filter oil drained.

(so not the Drain Plug removed)

 

I have drained a good few cars, but never other than the odd time had to put as much as 1 litre in to top up any car.

Most i see are overfilled.

 

& the other thing is, cars can be as low as 1.5-2 litres & no Warning Light or Message showed.

I have Never Seen a YELLOW Oil Warning light or Warning Message on a car i have driven,

so only seen pictures of what they look like.

 

Others that do top ups by Warning Lights or Warning Messages will need to comment.

& there are a few members had the RED Low Oil Pressure warning light show.

[Sittingbull]

No i can not confirm that.

 

All i can say is that when the car had 3.6 litres in and above the Cross Hatch when Cold, & at the top of cross hatch Hot check.

 

When hot & there is oil on the orange ball, it took me 1.2 litres to get back to 3.6 litres of oil in the car,

& when i Removed the Oil not long after, i had 3.6 Litres near enough came out.

That was the Oil taken out by Vacuum Pump VIA the Dip Stick Tube, and including the Oil Filter oil drained.

(so not the Drain Plug removed)

 

I have drained a good few cars, but never other than the odd time had to put as much as 1 litre in to top up any car.

Most i see are overfilled.

 

& the other thing is, cars can be s low as 1.5-2 litres & no Warning Light or Message showed.

I have Never Seen a YELLOW OIl Warning light or Warning Message on a car i have driven,

so only seen pictures of what they look like.

 

Others that do top ups by Warning Lights or Warning Messages will need to comment.

& there are a few members had the RED Low Oil Pressure warning light show.

 

Thanks George, my concern is that I have been overfilling but having read back through this thread and a few others I don't think I have been to be honest. It just seems inconceivable that the wee car needs this amount of oil.

[Ootohere]

This is the VW Polo Owners Manual for the Same Engines as in the Fabias.  

(It is too general, and engines with 3.9 litre capacity have the same dipstick as ones that are 3.6 litres)

 

You might notice the Different Instructions & wording due to the Translation.

the VW one is correctly worded the Skoda one is wrong.

 

YOU MIGHT SPOT WHERE IT IS DIFFERENT FROM THE SKODA OWNERS MANUAL.

& 'Operating Temperature' is rather better than 'warm' as the Skoda OM says, IMO

 

A few minutes to me is several minutes, not hanging around for 10 minutes,

but why do then not just say, 4 minutes or what ever.

Who is opening a bonnet on a long journey when they stopped to fill up, and hanging around for 15 minutes.?

 

It is a crazy system the 'Operating temp' checks.

A Twincharger is going to be around 5-10 minutes to be at operating temp when someone starts from cold,

& if left ticking over, longer than that.

Leave a Twincharger Ticking over to heat up and you go to drive and probably get an 'Exhaust Control System' Warning light flash when you go to drive it.

 

ANYWAY,

NONE OF THIS WOULD BE AN ISSUE AND IS NOT WITH THE CTHE OR THE CAVE THAT DO NOT USE OIL.

THE PROBLEM IS THE FAULTY ENGINES OR THE ONES FAULTY IN SOME CASES BECAUSE THERE WAS TOO MUCH OIL PUT IN.

SOMETIMES THAT WAS IN DEALERSHIP WORKSHOPS.

 

My Favourite is one that just had a new engine and was put out with well over 4 litres of oil in by the Dealership.

I reckon about 5 litres.

See the Picture.

(it is genuine, not faked by dipping in a bottle of oil.)

[Sittingbull]

This is the VW Polo Owners Manual for the Same Engines as in the Fabias.  

(It is too general, and engines with 3.9 litre capacity have the same dipstick as ones that are 3.6 litres)

 

You might notice the Different Instructions & wording due to the Translation.

the VW one is correctly worded the Skoda one is wrong.

 

YOU MIGHT SPOT WHERE IT IS DIFFERENT FROM THE SKODA OWNERS MANUAL.

& 'Operating Temperature' is rather better than 'warm' as the Skoda OM says, IMO

 

A few minutes to me is several minutes, not hanging around for 10 minutes,

but why do then not just say, 4 minutes or what ever.

Who is opening a bonnet on a long journey when they stopped to fill up, and hanging around for 15 minutes.?

 

It is a crazy system the 'Operating temp' checks.

A Twincharger is going to be around 5-10 minutes to be at operating temp when someone starts from cold,

& if left ticking over, longer than that.

Leave a Twincharger Ticking over to heat up and you go to drive and probably get an 'Exhaust Control System' Warning light flash when you go to drive it.

 

ANYWAY,

NONE OF THIS WOULD BE AN ISSUE AND IS NOT WITH THE CTHE OR THE CAVE THAT DO NOT USE OIL.

THE PROBLEM IS THE FAULTY ENGINES OR THE ONES FAULTY IN SOME CASES BECAUSE THERE WAS TOO MUCH OIL PUT IN.

SOMETIMES THAT WAS IN DEALERSHIP WORKSHOPS.

 

My Favourite is one that just had a new engine and was put out with well over 4 litres of oil in by the Dealership.

I reckon about 5 litres.

See the Picture.

(it is genuine, not faked by dipping in a bottle of oil.)

 

Having looked at the image from the VW handbook, I am happier now with how I have refilled. I would say that I have had the dipstick reading in the C section when filling up, and the handbook suggests it could take around 1L to do that. And so it seems with my car.

 

As for the other photo am I correct in thinking they have actually topped up beyond the top orange marker? Looks that way, or at least the marker looks covered in oil.

[Ootohere]

There is a red arrow. That is where the oil was cold after the member got the car home and dipped it.

[Sittingbull]

There is a red arrow. That is where the oil was cold after the member got the car home and dipped it.

 

Good heavens so there is, I missed it first time around. That is shocking to have overfilled by that amount especially at a dealers with so called expertise. How did they get it so badly wrong? Surely something told them they had put in at least 4 litres and possibly closer to 5?

[Sittingbull]

Just a quick update, Caroline from Skoda called me earlier today to tell me that Skoda UK were providing a courtesy car for our use while the dealer has it in for the consumption test. Very pleased, but unfortunately for me caught me on the hop before I could remember to ask about getting oil from Skoda while I await the test.

 

Still, quite pleased she pushed the issue and got a result for me. It's as it should be in the first place but nevertheless still a welcome intervention by Caroline and Skoda.

 

Makes a change after Arnold Clark Linwood Skoda managed to scratch the car yesterday while routinely washing it.

[the mad monk]

well i just got a letter confirming my car passed the oil test, i only used 0.49 l/1000km

i might ask them what the tolerances are +/- as any test in the world has to have these, i mean ffs thats so close as to be a failure in any test, even if the margin for error is +-0.02

laughable or what

maybe they just don't want to part with another engine as my car will be 3 years old soon

it doesn't mention the exact weights of oil, only the final result ( before you ask George ) ill ask about that when i get my new badges as these are getting that white stuff on them and so will be changed

[lordsummit]

Well, I've been summoned back tomorrow. Apparently an engineer from the warranty company wants to look at the car. Garage says it's standard, and they're checking the paperwork before they cough. Hoping it's not an attempt to wriggle out of their obligations.

[OzFabia]

well i just got a letter confirming my car passed the oil test, i only used 0.49 l/1000km

i might ask them what the tolerances are +/- as any test in the world has to have these, i mean ffs thats so close as to be a failure in any test, even if the margin for error is +-0.02

laughable or what

maybe they just don't want to part with another engine as my car will be 3 years old soon

it doesn't mention the exact weights of oil, only the final result ( before you ask George ) ill ask about that when i get my new badges as these are getting that white stuff on them and so will be changed

 

When I had a test done, I was told 0.4L/1000km, which just happens to be just inside the official tolerance. With yours it's even closer to just "making it". Mine had been doing about 0.25L/1000km beforehand, and did the same afterwards, so I assumed the dealer had just made the number up to pass and send me on my way. The thing was, I hadn't been trying for a new engine etc, just have Skoda Australia pay for (at least some of) the oil I was using.

[vxh26]

Well, I've been summoned back tomorrow. Apparently an engineer from the warranty company wants to look at the car. Garage says it's standard, and they're checking the paperwork before they cough. Hoping it's not an attempt to wriggle out of their obligations.

As a matter of interest, has your car ever been "tuned"? Does it have uprated suspension and/or a rear anti-roll bar (RARB)?

[lordsummit]

No. Came as a Skoda Approved, and is completely as was by me.

[Jabozuma]

Hence George is relentlessly campaigning for correct oil usage test procedure to be enforced on Dealerships with full evidence to back it all up.

What is described few post up is ridiculous, without detailed weighing procedure report they are simply plucking figures out of thin air.

[vxh26]

Very strange??? I could understand why the Warranty Company might want to have a look at the car if the engine had been modified but otherwise I can only guess that they don't trust the garage

 

ps - measuring oil consumption by weighing it is a complete nonsense - top up the oil properly, check the dipstick, seal the filler and dipstick, drive the appropriate miles, check the dipstick again and fill as necessary to get back to the same level noting how much oil had to be put in - simples

Edited 22 July, 2014 by vxh26

[Ootohere]

Car Care Plan Ltd  that provide the Skoda Approved Extended Warranty & maybe other Warranties are owned by VWG.

 

Other Extended Warranty Companies have refused to foot the bill to replace 1.4 TSI Twincharger 180-185 ps CAVE Engines.,

 

Because VW know there are Design, Manufacturing, Quality Control & Parts Faults.

which is why the Engine Required attampts to Modify the Breather Pipe & Valve System,  & Engine Management.

Then VW Discontinuing the CAVE Version and Introducing the CTHE Engine.

 

So even though the Innocent Buyer did not know of Existing Faults,

the Volkswagen Group does know, & have never introduced a Service Campaign, to check the near 2,800 CAVE vRS sold between June 2010 and the last Quarter of 2012.

 

So why should a Warranty Company pay,  VW, Skoda, Seat, Audi need to provide Replacement Engines & other Parts possibly required

& pay the Labour charges.

 

Or they do a Deal with contributing, and no publicity with Underwriters.

 

Simples really.

Mushrooms,  Kept in the Dark and shovelled sh!t3.

[lordsummit]

They have a folder an inch thick together with pictures, I have no real concerns. The garage and Skoda say all is in order, it's simply that as it's on an extended warranty, they won't cough until they've seen the paperwork and the car. I hope it's true.

[Ootohere]

The reason for weighing was,  the weight of Engine oil at a given temperature is known.  1 litre is 857 Grams.  (not 1000 grams as some made the error.)

 

The 3.6 litres will weigh 3085.2 Grams or near enough.

This helps because the Dipstick can not guarantee where, 3.6 Litres is.  

 

Anyway, as Dynamic Testing was done, 

A vehicle was Drained of Oil, new filter fitted,  3.6 litres of Engine oil added, (dipstick checked)

the engine taken through warming up, and heat cycles, then several heat cycles, with the Cooling fans working.

Then the dipstick checked.

But importantly, the car was sat in a certain position, the oil drained and weighed.  then Refilled in the car.

 

The car was then driven for a set mileage by a Technician, a Dynamic Test of maybe only 100 km.

But in various driving styles over the short distance,

Then in the workshop, and it was taken through Heat Cycles & Cooling fan on etc.

 

Then put in the position as parked before,

Oil Drained and Measured for Quantity, but also weighed.

* The vessel used to hold the oil can be a Measure marked in Litres & ML, and weighed, empty & containing oil.

Visual check on both Quantity, ie 3.6 Litres and Weight, ie 3085.2 grams.*

Not Rocket Science, not even very unusual as Motor Vehicle Enginerring.

 

Mileage & Weight difference Multiplied, and they made out that gave a result.

Well it did of sorts,

 

Then we got 300 km Tests, with Technician or Owners,  then 1000 km Tests with Owners driving.

None are scientific or accurate.

 

All are just 'Playing at it', when the Engine Builder & Manufacturers know they Engine Built and being tested is one of the Lemons they Built.

 

VORSPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK.  

 'Keep pretending it was just a one off',   Stop Production, revise & modify and pretend there ever was any faulty builds.

Edited 22 July, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[Ootohere]

A small point for anyone talking to Skoda UK or Dealership Employees that point out that the Owners manual says.

 

'The oil consumption may use 0.5 litres oil in 1000 km'.

 

The Owners manual does not say in which engines or if this applies to all Skoda Fabia Engines.

but,

Some Fabia Engines have an Oil Capacity Requirement of 2.8 litres, some 3.2 litres, some 3.6,  some 3.9 & some 4.3 litres.

 

So basically is it accepted that a 1.2 litre / 44 kW engine which has only 2.8 litres of oil in may also use 0.5 litres of oil in 1000km ??

 

As they say

'it is normal for the engine to consume oil',  The oil consumption may be as much as 0.5l/1000 km dependent on style of driving and the conditions under which you operate the vehicle.

the Oil use may be slightly higher than this during the first 5000 km.'

 

So if it May use that under different Styles & Conditions,

that is them saying,  'Not acceptable' were totally normal Driving Styles and Conditions are being driven.

 It is just that we built some Excessive Oil Burners.

So we try to cover our backs.

Edited 22 July, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[Sittingbull]

Car Care Plan Ltd  that provide the Skoda Approved Extended Warranty & maybe other Warranties are owned by VWG.

 

Other Extended Warranty Companies have refused to foot the bill to replace 1.4 TSI Twincharger 180-185 ps CAVE Engines.,

 

Because VW know there are Design, Manufacturing, Quality Control & Parts Faults.

which is why the Engine Required attampts to Modify the Breather Pipe & Valve System,  & Engine Management.

Then VW Discontinuing the CAVE Version and Introducing the CTHE Engine.

 

So even though the Innocent Buyer did not know of Existing Faults,

the Volkswagen Group does know, & have never introduced a Service Campaign, to check the near 2,800 CAVE vRS sold between June 2010 and the last Quarter of 2012.

 

So why should a Warranty Company pay,  VW, Skoda, Seat, Audi need to provide Replacement Engines & other Parts possibly required

& pay the Labour charges.

 

Or they do a Deal with contributing, and no publicity with Underwriters.

 

Simples really.

Mushrooms,  Kept in the Dark and shovelled sh!t3.

 

 

The reason for weighing was,  the weight of Engine oil at a given temperature is known.  1 litre is 857 Grams.  (not 1000 grams as some made the error.)

 

The 3.6 litres will weigh 3085.2 Grams or near enough.

This helps because the Dipstick can not guarantee where, 3.6 Litres is.  

 

Anyway, as Dynamic Testing was done, 

A vehicle was Drained of Oil, new filter fitted,  3.6 litres of Engine oil added, (dipstick checked)

the engine taken through warming up, and heat cycles, then several heat cycles, with the Cooling fans working.

Then the dipstick checked.

But importantly, the car was sat in a certain position, the oil drained and weighed.  then Refilled in the car.

 

The car was then driven for a set mileage by a Technician, a Dynamic Test of maybe only 100 km.

But in various driving styles over the short distance,

Then in the workshop, and it was taken through Heat Cycles & Cooling fan on etc.

 

Then put in the position as parked before,

Oil Drained and Measured for Quantity, but also weighed.

* The vessel used to hold the oil can be a Measure marked in Litres & ML, and weighed, empty & containing oil.

Visual check on both Quantity, ie 3.6 Litres and Weight, ie 3085.2 grams.*

Not Rocket Science, not even very unusual as Motor Vehicle Enginerring.

 

Mileage & Weight difference Multiplied, and they made out that gave a result.

Well it did of sorts,

 

Then we got 300 km Tests, with Technician or Owners,  then 1000 km Tests with Owners driving.

None are scientific or accurate.

 

All are just 'Playing at it', when the Engine Builder & Manufacturers know they Engine Built and being tested is one of the Lemons they Built.

 

VORSPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK.  

 'Keep pretending it was just a one off',   Stop Production, revise & modify and pretend there ever was any faulty builds.

 

 

A small point for anyone talking to Skoda UK or Dealership Employees that point out that the Owners manual says.

 

'The oil consumption may use 0.5 litres oil in 1000 km'.

 

The Owners manual does not say in which engines or if this applies to all Skoda Fabia Engines.

but,

Some Fabia Engines have an Oil Capacity Requirement of 2.8 litres, some 3.2 litres, some 3.6,  some 3.9 & some 4.3 litres.

 

So basically is it accepted that a 1.2 litre / 44 kW engine which has only 2.8 litres of oil in may also use 0.5 litres of oil in 1000km ??

 

As they say

'it is normal for the engine to consume oil',  The oil consumption may be as much as 0.5l/1000 km dependent on style of driving and the conditions under which you operate the vehicle.

the Oil use may be slightly higher than this during the first 5000 km.'

 

So if it May use that under different Styles & Conditions,

that is them saying,  'Not acceptable' were totally normal Driving Styles and Conditions are being driven.

 It is just that we built some Excessive Oil Burners.

So we try to cover our backs.

 

An excellent input of knowledge and information for those of who are either just entering the process with Skoda UK (like me for example) or who are about to. Thanks for this George, our consumption test isn't scheduled until 14th August but I will print this off for reference ahead of the test.

 

Due to the variables that can occur naturally just by using the dipstick test I can now see the importance of the weighing procedure, provided of course they start out from an accurate position as regards the weight of the oil and the distance to be driven. I'm in dialogue with Skoda on this and I will be doing my best to make sure the driving distance is what we would normally expect to do, as well as the types of use for the car so that we can almost exactly mirror what we have been doing up till now.

 

Strange thing is with my wife being off on holiday at the moment she hasn't really been out in the car for almost 2 weeks so the very short journeys with the car rarely being beyond 5th gear have been replaced by me driving on longer journeys, and the consumption doesn't appear to be as noticeable. The journeys at the moment however are the exception rather than the rule hence why I am asking for the driving during the test to mirror normal usage.

 

All that said and done though, we are still very happy with the car. It's very practical, decent economy, good performance and looks a bit different from the normal corsa and fiestas. All we are looking for is help from Skoda to make sure we don't have one that uses excessive oil, and one we can say that about for the long term.

[Jabozuma]

What is really lamentable is that Skoda UK in general do not make problems in this department as they recognise the issue and are on a drive to rebuild customer base and trust in VAG products.

What is failing miserably is the Dealership side of the equation in some cases, which is directly effecting customers :(

[Sittingbull]

As I suspected in my post on 22 July the oil consumption improved due to the type of usage over the past 3 weeks while my wife was off on holiday.

 

I had to top up yesterday at 24463 miles with 600ml of oil, this represents 813 miles since the last top up and is better than has been the case for our car. It had been using more than this. Doesn't go in for consumption test until 14 August however so we will see what happens between now and then, and indeed on the test itself.

[vxh26]

I think that you are almost certainly right that lots of short journeys where the engine doesn't get up to operating temperature might be the explanation for the (higher) oil consumption.

 

I think that you and others are 100% wrong that the idea of weighing oil is more reliable than noting where on the dipstick the oil is before the extended test run and then after the test run carefully topping up to the same level while noting how much oil is required.

 

Makes no sense at all - too many variables - still if that what Skoda UK choose to do, I guess they have their reasons.

 

Good luck either way.