To DSG or not to DSG

[old newbie2]

Yes. Spot on! 

 

The ZF boxes cause problem & some lurching when accelerating & changing gear! 

Interesting comments re. the ZF boxes, I've ridden on a few LM 172's, + most of the Overground sets & have been reasonably impressed.

The gearshift is quite quick & painless, just a change in engine note, certainly better than the old heritage dmu's.

Much better than listening to a 14 litre Cummins in a 150 running at max revs in converter drive up to 45/50 mph before the 2-speed Voith finally staggers into top gear & then slowly works it's way up to line speed!

 

DC

 

 

 

ISTR that the experimental ZF's were a 5 speed variant, if so then they may have behave differently to the 6-speed units in the 172 fleets.  

[old newbie2]

When people see mine is auto, they go , oh. Then I mention the flappy paddles and its, ooh I bet they're good, I like them. Goes to show how people can change their views on things. I love the dsg, only use paddles down hill, and have the habit of going to sport via the stick just for the power fix....

Very true! I use the paddles whenever I think that I might need a different ratio, if only 'cos I can see the road ahead & the DSG can't, at least not until they are fed with GPS mapping data, as per some Mercedes models.

 

(Mostly when I can see the need to overtake but don't want to bury my right foot into the carpet, especially when driving the Superb, [yes. it has paddles....], 'cos it's a big old barge for a puny 2.0 TSi.) 

 

DC

[Phil-E]

Because of the way the gearbox works, if you ever want a gear that isn't pre-selected (potentially one gear either way of whatever gear you are in - so say your in 3rd, then it can only instantly go to 2nd or 4th depending on what the computer has preselected), then its roughly a 1 sec wait for that gear (not instant) - a manual will be faster changes in those circumstances - skipping gears is one of those times. If you ever skip gears up or down, then your changes will be faster in a manual than in a dsg. DSG's low speed performance is a bit off too - shunting/jerking at very low speed. It doesnt always seem to happen, but the more you drive one, the more you will notice it. It's also harder to take off quickly without planning - with a manual, you hold the clutch in and bring the revs up more for a rapid take off any time you desire - dsg will only ever rev to a certain amount before engaging the clutch (unless you use the brutal launch control which makes you look like a ****). Which is why in some cases it can feel laggy, or doughy. However, you can learn to adapt your driving style to suit the gearbox, and mask nearly all of those issues (let go of the brake and allow the clutches to engage before pressing the throttle). It's a great gearbox for flowing along a country road, using the paddles and thinking about corner lines, rather than what gear you are in.

 

I think a manual would be a faster downshift if it was planned... where the DSG is good is when you need to just quickly get your foot down... all that's required is to press the accelerator. It's still quick anyway.

 

And in regards to setting off... I'd say it's harder to set off quickly in a manual. You have clutch too quick or too slow and too many or too few revs. In my car I just plant my foot and it sets off perfectly- smooth, briskly and without any dramatic wheel spin or over reving.

 

Phil

[decuk]

You can never stall a dsg or crunch the coggs. Manual gear change speed depends on how quick a person is with foot and hand, especially if on a bends with both hands stuck on the wheel. On a recent 4 car track day. All were auto with paddles. So track drivers must like them. Its all about preference. Wouldn't do if we all liked 1 make,model & colour of car. Take some doing trying to spot YOUR set of wheels to get home.(went off topic a bit there)

[GTR27]

I ride a motorbike mostly, so am used to using hands and feet seperate, so changing gears mid corner is easy, although most people wouldn't if they didnt absolutlely have to as any gear change can upset the cars balance (i.e. pick the right gear for the corner). As for stalling, I could count on one hand the number of times i've stalled any of my manual cars in the last 10yrs.....if you've been driving for a while it should be a rare occourance.

 

On the track a DSG is great, as it allows you to focus on braking points, acceleration points and corner entry/exit - taking thinking about gears away from you, so most people would be faster around a track in a DSG equipped car.

 

DSG is a good gearbox, but I am still of the firm belief that it's not for everyone - they need to have an extended test in both to decide. Like I said, some love it and others find the oddities really frustrating. Its a really personal thing. At least we have the choice!

 

EDIT: When I drive autos, I left foot brake. I know, i'm weird!

Edited 13 August, 2014 by GTR27

[PUFPAF]

GTR27 obviously you like the launch control a lot then otherwise left foot brake is quite dangerous

[JoseDB]

GTR27 obviously you like the launch control a lot then otherwise left foot brake is quite dangerous

Why is it dangerous? I left foot brake in a manual sometimes (mainly in my track MR2 on a spirited drive, or a track day). If you know what you are doing and when it is useful I don't see a problem...

[gt40]

I used to left foot brake all the time when I was pedalling an under-powered, 4-speed, front wheel drive car quickly, though not as quick as some, through the Scottish forests; it made a big difference to my times. However I do not see the point in left foot braking an auto box with heavy brake bias on the driven front wheels - what am I missing?

[JoseDB]

I think GTR27 is suggesting left foot braking but not while modulating the throttle at the same time in this case?

[themanwithnoaim]

Habit, its what your used too. My father used to shoot with his middle finger from learning to shoot with a bolt action rifle when he was a child.

[Grizz30]

Part of it is personal preference. I have a 1.8L DSG. I like it, but I find that you have to adapt your driving to best suit the gearbox. Particularly avoid being heavy footed when driving around town. Once you understand how the accelerator and gearbox work together, it is a wonderful car to drive. As I say, there is an element of personal preference.

[GTR27]

Left foot braking is not dangerous in the slightest. If anything, its safer, especially in traffic as you can have your foot hovering over the brake pedal (not dragging mind you) and have much faster reactions. If you're fanging along, you can trail brake more easily to tuck the nose in to help reduce understeer. I only do it in autos.....I brake with the right foot in manuals, and heel/toe if i'm fanging.

 

It's more efficient use of your feet. It does take some time to get used to it though - ive tried to show a few people and getting your head smashed into the windscreen when they try to apply brakes isnt fun. Modulation is the key. It's like being ambidextrous, but with my feet.

 

Again, its personal preference. Not everyone will feel comfortable with it, but I do.

[JoseDB]

Left foot braking is not dangerous in the slightest. If anything, its safer, especially in traffic as you can have your foot hovering over the brake pedal (not dragging mind you) and have much faster reactions. If you're fanging along, you can trail brake more easily to tuck the nose in to help reduce understeer. I only do it in autos.....I brake with the right foot in manuals, and heel/toe if i'm fanging.

It's more efficient use of your feet. It does take some time to get used to it though - ive tried to show a few people and getting your head smashed into the windscreen when they try to apply brakes isnt fun. Modulation is the key. It's like being ambidextrous, but with my feet.

Again, its personal preference. Not everyone will feel comfortable with it, but I do.

Haha - I remember when I was learning with the windscreen headbanging!

[susi]

Habit, its what your used too. My father used to shoot with his middle finger from learning to shoot with a bolt action rifle when he was a child.

 

He would probably be quite good at the "mad minute" with a Lee Enfield

[PUFPAF]

I think it is more dangerous as I feel there is higher chance of overstepping your foot or braking accidentally in traffic. For me it is just wrong to throttle with one foot and brake with the other. Except for launch control, obviously

May be this makes more sense for LH drive? Anyway, I respect your different opinions

[JoseDB]

I think it is more dangerous as I feel there is higher chance of overstepping your foot or braking accidentally in traffic. For me it is just wrong to throttle with one foot and brake with the other. Except for launch control, obviously

May be this makes more sense for LH drive? Anyway, I respect your different opinions

 

I sounds most likely GTR27/gt40 and myself all have some track/race experience and hence left foot braking is more natural to us. I do appreciate that to the average road going driver it is a strange thing to do, and could seem dangerous if you are not used to it. LHD/RHD I don't think makes any difference.

[RandomSkodaperson]

MidVRS,

 

With the start/stop I didn't like ti at first as it would turn the engine off when pulling off etc.

 

I have noticed that if you just gently cover the brake the engine stays on until you push the break harder. The DSG really works well with the start / stop and only found this after getting the pressure on the brake just right. It is easy now and a dream to drive.

Edited 14 August, 2014 by RandomSkodaperson

[blokart]

If you go for the ACC option it's a must to take the DSG, I'm pleased with both on my vRS

[andyvee]

Left foot braking is not dangerous in the slightest. If anything, its safer, especially in traffic as you can have your foot hovering over the brake pedal (not dragging mind you) and have much faster reactions. If you're fanging along, you can trail brake more easily to tuck the nose in to help reduce understeer. I only do it in autos.....I brake with the right foot in manuals, and heel/toe if i'm fanging.

 

It's more efficient use of your feet. It does take some time to get used to it though - ive tried to show a few people and getting your head smashed into the windscreen when they try to apply brakes isnt fun. Modulation is the key. It's like being ambidextrous, but with my feet.

 

Again, its personal preference. Not everyone will feel comfortable with it, but I do.

Don't forget the O3 has all kinds of additional safety features such as pre-fill - so if you lift your foot sharply off of the accelerator the car starts to pressurise the brake system before you even start to press the brake pedal.

[GTR27]

Don't forget the O3 has all kinds of additional safety features such as pre-fill - so if you lift your foot sharply off of the accelerator the car starts to pressurise the brake system before you even start to press the brake pedal.

Yep. Having a left foot over the brake still saves the 1/2 a second it would take to lift off the throttle, lift your leg, move it across to the brake and mash down. By left foot braking you can just mash down. Also means there is less chance of not hitting the pedal correctly when you are panicking and moving a foot, as your foot is already over the pedal.

 

RHD here, but it wouldnt make any difference if it was LHD as the footwells and pedals are the same setup on both.

 

 

I know its not everyones cup of tea - but if you spend the time to learn, it will feel natural and work well. It's not dangerous, it has some benefits but agree that its not everyones cup of tea Most road driving it wont make a difference.

[Minimoke]

Yep. Having a left foot over the brake still saves the 1/2 a second it would take to lift off the throttle, lift your leg, move it across to the brake and mash down. By left foot braking you can just mash down. Also means there is less chance of not hitting the pedal correctly when you are panicking and moving a foot, as your foot is already over the pedal.

 

RHD here, but it wouldnt make any difference if it was LHD as the footwells and pedals are the same setup on both.

 

 

I know its not everyones cup of tea - but if you spend the time to learn, it will feel natural and work well. It's not dangerous, it has some benefits but agree that its not everyones cup of tea Most road driving it wont make a difference.

 So does that mean you are driving with your left foot constantly hovering over the brake pedal?  Isn't that rather tiring?

[andyvee]

Yep. Having a left foot over the brake still saves the 1/2 a second it would take to lift off the throttle, lift your leg, move it across to the brake and mash down. By left foot braking you can just mash down. Also means there is less chance of not hitting the pedal correctly when you are panicking and moving a foot, as your foot is already over the pedal.

 

RHD here, but it wouldnt make any difference if it was LHD as the footwells and pedals are the same setup on both.

 

 

I know its not everyones cup of tea - but if you spend the time to learn, it will feel natural and work well. It's not dangerous, it has some benefits but agree that its not everyones cup of tea Most road driving it wont make a difference.

If it takes you 1/2 a second to go from accelerator to brake, and you are worrying about if you can find the brake pedal then I can see why you are left foot braking - only kidding

[GTR27]

In stop start traffic, yes I hover over the brake with the left foot. It rests on the floor so not tiring at all.

Of you think you can lift your for and move it over in under half a second, you are overestimating your reaction times. 0.5 secs at 30mph is 22ft.....

I guess with the active city stop or whatever it's called (comes with acc) would mean you could just let the car so it.

It's only a precaution, and since I find it natural there is no harm in doing it, especially with the potential benefits. May only be a few feet in stop start, but that's often all you need. I tend to read traffic anyway (on a bike if you don't you die) so it's like another layer of safety. But I'm not a normal driver. I replace tyres if they go 'off', do driver training every few years and generally try and keep my skill level up. As I get older, I am also more cautious as I know my reactions are slowing down compared to when I was younger.

Again, I know others won't do things to this level, just adding to the conversation when people talk about braking styles and why they do it. Which is related to dsg, as I use it with all autos.

[hobbie2k]

I spend 10-12 hours a day on the road and I'll typically see at least a few people running down the road with their brake lights on constantly.  Left-foot brakers who think they are just hovering over the pedal, but are actually pressing it slightly (but who also swear that they never actually touch the pedal).  That means if they do need to stop as quickly as possible, their pads will be worn, the rotors warped and hot, and drivers behind won't be alerted because the brake lights have been on for miles.  The only way to be sure that you're not resting on the pedal lightly is to have your foot resting on the floor to the side of the pedal, in which case you have no advantage over a right-foot braker.

 

In addition, if you're in a situation where there's a higher chance you might need to apply the brake suddenly, you shouldn't have your right foot on the accelerator at all, in which case, it is already free to cover the brake.

Edited 16 August, 2014 by hobbie2k

[GTR27]

Only a complete tard would rest their foot on the brake. There is always a gap between foot and brake. I'm not sure how you could possibly rest your foot on the pedal without feeling it unless you were Oscar pistorius.

Most vag cars also don't allow brake and accelerator at the same time (rs models do a little - but anything below that just cuts power).

I generally get >100k from discs/pads so no drag going on there.