Forum Support

[ChrisRs]

Im so glad that the direction this thread has taken is 'Progress'

I was worried at one point that I had opened a 'Can of Worms' and allowed some to follow a different and could be constuded as, a 'warped' agenda here

Discussion like this, is good for the Forum as Colin states

Progress is good too, as long as its for the right reasons

This is a great Forum..Long may it be so...thats why Im happy to pay for my 'Sponsorship' and proir to that, 'Freedom' membership

I fully understand reasons for others not wanting to follow that route...There always has to be a balance, as has been said already

My intentions in starting this thread were genuine....to stimulate discussion and remain so.

Thankyou all for your contributions to the discussion...whether you are a Freedom Member, a Sponsor ....or neither

[keystonedriving]

I came upon Briskoda when I bought the Roomster four years ago.  During that time it has provided me with information, entertainment and , on the odd occasion, exasperation.  I am now in my second year of Freedom membership because I regard the site as something I wish to stay in existance.  

 

When I look at the internet sites I use regularly I contribute to around two thirds of them, 'because they're worth it!'.  In the case of Briskoda I reckon that £1 per month represents extraordinary value for money.

 

Given the number of people who use the site regularly there seems to be relatively little obvious aggro, which suggests that our mods are doing a pretty good job.  You can't keep everybody happy all of the time but Briskoda does better than most.

 

We have an interest in dog rescue and, a couple of years ago the major UK web site for this interest pretty much imploded due to a serious falling out at the top (it pretty much split down the middle).  I don't know all of the details, if I did this would not be the place to air them, but it was quite fraught for a couple of months.  It is still going, though much quieter (and more civilised), but dogs are still getting the new homes they need and people are still talking to one another.

 

To be honest I'm happy enough with the site the way it is, but if positive change comes I'll probably not complain too much.  OK I'll probably be grumbling to start with whilst I'm finding out where certain features have been 'hidden', but isn't that just human nature?

 

To Colin and the crew I would like to say thank you for providing this facility.

[@Lee]

as a slight aside (perhaps) wasn't Briskoda recently voted as one of the best UK car forums somewhere? I'm sure I didn't imagine that.

[theezenutz]

I just happened to come across this article. Perhaps it could be of value to all of us?

 

How to change someone's mind - http://www.wakingtimes.com/2015/02/13/change-someones-mind/

[@Lee]

I just happened to come across this article. Perhaps it could be of value to all of us?

 

How to change someone's mind - http://www.wakingtimes.com/2015/02/13/change-someones-mind/

you just can't help yourself, can you?

 

I get what it is, it's known as CBT. I just don't see why it's relevent.

[theezenutz]

you just can't help yourself, can you?

 

I get what it is, it's known as CBT. I just don't see why it's relevent.

Rich!

 

If it's not relevant then my apologies but in a forum which is almost exclusively about opinions, many of which are opposed then maybe it's an approch that we can all take to reduce the petty arguements, name calling and general chilishness.

 

If it's of value then use it if it's not then ignore it.

[Macdemon]

Sponsors etc think they are better than other non paying people, everyone should be equal. Some of the posts my mods are shocking,

 

I don't consider myself better than you, just because I have Freedom membership.

 

We'\re all equal, and its a matter of free choice if you pay or not.

[ColinD]

I forgot to add last night, I also want to reflect those who have joined freedom in the past. But now for whatever reason are not in freedom sold car, moved on etc. This will likely be in the form of a freedom:ex group title only initially.

 

Thats part of the freedom will evolve statement, but it's a detail i wanted to stress. Past support is appreciated, it's got us to this point today. 

[ColinD]

I thought it may also be useful to explain the current model that keeps briskoda going. I've thought about sharing this since about 4am this morning and numerous times before, here goes...

 

The way I look at this sites business model is using a metaphor, in this case an onion. (((O)))

 

• Core: The core is the forums, this core is free and open to all. It represents the core of the site, a member, his/her car, the problems, the community.
• Freedom: The core is then wrapped by freedom. Freedom supports the core, events, and activities directly related to the cores daily operations, local meets etc.
• Commercial: Wrapping again, this is sponsors and advertising. This layer supports all development, support and costs in keeping it all going. Costs are not just software and server hosting fees, but people too. A database consultant is 300+ a day at mates rates! 
• Plus: A very thin wrapper around commercials is commercials plus, things like briskoda insurance and the marketplace. Items that only exist because of briskoda core, but equally could be turned off tomorrow at no impact to the core. These feed into the development and support pots.

 

Background:

3-4+ years ago I had a pretty dam good job, even at 50hours a week, + 2hours at least commute each day. I'd pretty much given up climbing and mountaineering due to no time. I'd be asleep within minutes of walking in the door. Briskoda then became very hard to manage also. I resolved to maintain it, but not develop it. Those around from '02 will know it used to change frequently, sometimes for the worse.

 

I'm a creative, I create using software. I was bored of sitting in traffic, plus I fell asleep behind the wheel twice, so I quit for a local job. Got very bored, very quickly as it was not a creative job. Then went on a climbing trip to norway; amazing, and nearly got killed; warming moment. I realised hanging on a ledge in Norway that actually BRISKODA represented something I'd in part created; fostered maybe better. For the next few weeks, in Norway; lots of 3am walks, I set to thinking about options I had.  

 

Where I got to then it that time was, I needed to create 'stuff' that people used and enjoyed using. Because thats what I love doing. But I'd need some client work; freelance development, so I could offset and afford the time to get to do all this cutting edge, amazing; more whizz bang words, for the community if so desired. 

 

---

 

Where I'm at today is... I'm almost out of my personal savings. I still believe in the community, it's growing and is gaining support through freedom. I believe in the community as a whole, because I've invested so much into it, but also each freedom purchased mail and feedback post on 'best forum out there' helps. Hearing some of the spending as a result of reading makes me hide though :P Still not over that after 12years services here, but a good 12 years. 

 

So I go out and get client web development work, it's hard. It's really hard due to the goals I set in who I wanted to help with my knowledge... a flawed plan I now know, but it turns out small companies/individuals bereft of decent web/it skills, don't tend to have much of a budget either.

 

So briskoda ironically forms a bit of a catch22... I can't go off on a 3/6 month contract or take another permanent job because it; briskoda, takes too much time in it's current form. I'd be compromised in any job and the site also would go back to stasis mode, not good for it! 

 

I wanted to share all this so people knew where I'm at. Because today the underlying operation, accounting, insurances, servers, licenses, password resets, can't register, take downs are all done by me. I think it's only right and fair, when I ask a company pays £30 a month to support the site, or you to donate £12 into freedom, I know where it goes, and it's not far, but it's further than £0. You now know I'm not on a beach in the Caymans. I've got enough fuel in the citigo to make it to Whitby for chips!

 

I can assure everyone that despite the number of sponsors and freedom members, the site is not in profit. The time I spend in the forums, like the moderators is voluntary.

 

I firmly believe in the core being open and free to use; also that Freedom is optional and a freely opted into arrangement. Beyond that extras that directly cost the community pot, directly or indirectly need to be covered in some way.  I hope I've shown how that is with the onion layers.

 

If anyone is reading this, my other musings and shares some of my visions, get in touch. I/we could use a business mentor/partner and I'm about ready to change up a gear.

 

Thank you for reading.

 

ps

some sites I use, if you run adblockers they make pages load slower, or block. We don't.

 

Freedom rate is <10% of community total, but 100% more than nothing!

 

some options to discuss: higher rates for advertisers, more impact required to gain return on investment. Lower freedom rates, i.e. digital freedom only ( no sticker ). donate block ( appearing later, if it works )

[seboni121]

I've been on this forum for many many years and never become freedom and never felt that I had to, it's an amazing forum and love it , the members for the majority have been nothing but welcoming and tolerant up to a point , I understand what Chris is asking , why do some join and other not ? My reason is a simple one " the wife wouldnt let me " , if there would be a charge for joining the forum the vast majority of members would leave I think ? I understand it cost to develop and for that I'm very thankful and long may it continue, however threads like this potentially can split a forum up

[Brimma]

Colin, I'm glad you've.'come out' and said it like it is

It should be compulsory that every single member registered on Briskoda read that post, just to give them an idea of how Briskoda runs, and how it quite easily might not run if it wasn't for the free time and financial input you put into it

Many people will have no idea, so I hope it makes them sit back and think a bit - internet websites don't just grow on trees

[ColinD]

FTTC (with a top notch ISP no big 4 tat) at home and a leased line at work... haven't noticed any speed issues at all with Briskoda!

 

Last March we hopped out of our dedicated hardware data centre TII, to a cloud solution out of London. Despite the drop in performance from real hardware to 'cloud' the fatter data centre pipe, gave us a 300ms speed boost per item request. That is worth the extra spend, just narked over where to put the dedicated hardware, would be close to 400 a month in London on similar connections, not to mention the tin is old enough to need replacing. I'm a convert to the cloud I think.

 

People may get varying performances based on external services, so presently if google has a wobble, we'll be hit. As some scripts that load from google block the page. It's entirely plausible individuals have issues due to software installed blocking some scripts. 

 

I wish stone masons were still in demand!

[seboni121]

I feel guilty as friggin sin now ! Colin I applaud your post and Brimma I totally agree most of us have no clue about the day to day running of such a " monster" which is brisky ! , like most members I am a member( pardon the pun ) on other forums and non compare to this one , when I meet people with skodas I always say to them " have you heard of briskoda" then proceed to let them know how awesome it is !

[stever750]

I thought it may also be useful to explain the current model that keeps briskoda going. I've thought about sharing this since about 4am this morning and numerous times before, here goes...

 

The way I look at this sites business model is using a metaphor, in this case an onion. (((O)))

 

• Core: The core is the forums, this core is free and open to all. It represents the core of the site, a member, his/her car, the problems, the community.
• Freedom: The core is then wrapped by freedom. Freedom supports the core, events, and activities directly related to the cores daily operations, local meets etc.
• Commercial: Wrapping again, this is sponsors and advertising. This layer supports all development, support and costs in keeping it all going. Costs are not just software and server hosting fees, but people too. A database consultant is 300+ a day at mates rates! 
• Plus: A very thin wrapper around commercials is commercials plus, things like briskoda insurance and the marketplace. Items that only exist because of briskoda core, but equally could be turned off tomorrow at no impact to the core. These feed into the development and support pots.

 

Background:

3-4+ years ago I had a pretty dam good job, even at 50hours a week, + 2hours at least commute each day. I'd pretty much given up climbing and mountaineering due to no time. I'd be asleep within minutes of walking in the door. Briskoda then became very hard to manage also. I resolved to maintain it, but not develop it. Those around from '02 will know it used to change frequently, sometimes for the worse.

 

I'm a creative, I create using software. I was bored of sitting in traffic, plus I fell asleep behind the wheel twice, so I quit for a local job. Got very bored, very quickly as it was not a creative job. Then went on a climbing trip to norway; amazing, and nearly got killed; warming moment. I realised hanging on a ledge in Norway that actually BRISKODA represented something I'd in part created; fostered maybe better. For the next few weeks, in Norway; lots of 3am walks, I set to thinking about options I had.  

 

Where I got to then it that time was, I needed to create 'stuff' that people used and enjoyed using. Because thats what I love doing. But I'd need some client work; freelance development, so I could offset and afford the time to get to do all this cutting edge, amazing; more whizz bang words, for the community if so desired. 

 

---

 

Where I'm at today is... I'm almost out of my personal savings. I still believe in the community, it's growing and is gaining support through freedom. I believe in the community as a whole, because I've invested so much into it, but also each freedom purchased mail and feedback post on 'best forum out there' helps. Hearing some of the spending as a result of reading makes me hide though :p Still not over that after 12years services here, but a good 12 years. 

 

So I go out and get client web development work, it's hard. It's really hard due to the goals I set in who I wanted to help with my knowledge... a flawed plan I now know, but it turns out small companies/individuals bereft of decent web/it skills, don't tend to have much of a budget either.

 

So briskoda ironically forms a bit of a catch22... I can't go off on a 3/6 month contract or take another permanent job because it; briskoda, takes too much time in it's current form. I'd be compromised in any job and the site also would go back to stasis mode, not good for it! 

 

I wanted to share all this so people knew where I'm at. Because today the underlying operation, accounting, insurances, servers, licenses, password resets, can't register, take downs are all done by me. I think it's only right and fair, when I ask a company pays £30 a month to support the site, or you to donate £12 into freedom, I know where it goes, and it's not far, but it's further than £0. You now know I'm not on a beach in the Caymans. I've got enough fuel in the citigo to make it to Whitby for chips!

 

I can assure everyone that despite the number of sponsors and freedom members, the site is not in profit. The time I spend in the forums, like the moderators is voluntary.

 

I firmly believe in the core being open and free to use; also that Freedom is optional and a freely opted into arrangement. Beyond that extras that directly cost the community pot, directly or indirectly need to be covered in some way.  I hope I've shown how that is with the onion layers.

 

If anyone is reading this, my other musings and shares some of my visions, get in touch. I/we could use a business mentor/partner and I'm about ready to change up a gear.

 

Thank you for reading.

 

ps

some sites I use, if you run adblockers they make pages load slower, or block. We don't.

 

Freedom rate is <10% of community total, but 100% more than nothing!

 

some options to discuss: higher rates for advertisers, more impact required to gain return on investment. Lower freedom rates, i.e. digital freedom only ( no sticker ). donate block ( appearing later, if it works )

I was going to answer to the OP something light heartedly flippant along the lines of wanting the badge (the irony in a SEAT), but this is why I'd happily "donate" £12. It's pretty obvious the site take a lot of effort, it really is much better than those forums that are hung off major magazine publishing houses (not necessarily car related I should add). Whilst you can't please all of the people all of the time, for the most part this is one of the (much) better natured forums that's probably mostly in part due to sensible moderation as well as the calibre of it's members, fee paying or not. Ultimately, nothing in life is, or should be free; and I personally don't expect to have this available for nothing.

[J306TD]

Just renewed my membership. Colin it works great now. Really easy to do. Just click pay and it's done

Sent from my Galaxy S5

[DanHarper]

Last March we hopped out of our dedicated hardware data centre TII, to a cloud solution out of London. Despite the drop in performance from real hardware to 'cloud' the fatter data centre pipe, gave us a 300ms speed boost per item request. That is worth the extra spend, just narked over where to put the dedicated hardware, would be close to 400 a month in London on similar connections, not to mention the tin is old enough to need replacing. I'm a convert to the cloud I think.

 

People may get varying performances based on external services, so presently if google has a wobble, we'll be hit. As some scripts that load from google block the page. It's entirely plausible individuals have issues due to software installed blocking some scripts. 

 

I wish stone masons were still in demand!

 

As with everything, its important to chose a good provider! The thing that irks me most about 'the cloud' is that people think its all the same. Anyone can set them selves up with a few servers, VMware hypervisers and offer 'cloud' services. Whats behind the scenes is hidden by the marketing bull. What has happened is that hardware has become so fast, it is now much more efficient to run multiple work loads off the same hardware. The upside of this is that most workloads don't use 100% of the hardware capacity all the time, so generally a move from 1 dedicated server which may be 3 years old to a much faster server that is now responsible for multiple work loads gives you a performance boost.... as long as the load is correctly balanced and the provider doesn't try to cram too much on the hardware. I'm sure you knew that though, more adding this for general information :p As it was in the 'good old days' of co-location, infrastructure matters! 

 

I run script and ad blockers, actually one of the reasons I bough Freedom is that I felt guilty :p Not that you'd get any click through revenue from me though... 

[ColinD]

You're free to run them too, the blockers etc.

 

Guilt isn't an emotion I'd rely on, it's a grey area for my morale compass. Creating sense of guilt causes debt to build up. I feel indebted to return value to you now, more over again and again. But thats growth

 

The adsense ad's are mostly for guests. But there is a catch there too. One of the measures of a sites effectiveness is time spent on site. It's essentially what facebook is trying to steal, time. So a user visits a site, spends 1 minute versus 10 minutes on the site. The 10 minute site is judged to be a better site in 'marketing' execs minds. So putting ad's that take visitors away directly impacts on your time on site and bounce metrics. I don't mind so much as most people who ask, don't then follow through with the budget to make it worth me turning all the ads off  But if I could take adsense off, it would be even quicker for all then, briefly till my lights went out  

 

But they are on and shown to guests mostly, which is why we earn more from Honda, Ford, Peugeot and other marques than I do SKODA

 

Did you know people use the internet to research new car purchases? You read it first here  

[fabiamk2SE]

I thought it may also be useful to explain the current model that keeps briskoda going. I've thought about sharing this since about 4am this morning and numerous times before, here goes...

The way I look at this sites business model is using a metaphor, in this case an onion. (((O)))

• Core: The core is the forums, this core is free and open to all. It represents the core of the site, a member, his/her car, the problems, the community.
• Freedom: The core is then wrapped by freedom. Freedom supports the core, events, and activities directly related to the cores daily operations, local meets etc.
• Commercial: Wrapping again, this is sponsors and advertising. This layer supports all development, support and costs in keeping it all going. Costs are not just software and server hosting fees, but people too. A database consultant is 300+ a day at mates rates!
• Plus: A very thin wrapper around commercials is commercials plus, things like briskoda insurance and the marketplace. Items that only exist because of briskoda core, but equally could be turned off tomorrow at no impact to the core. These feed into the development and support pots.

Background:

3-4+ years ago I had a pretty dam good job, even at 50hours a week, + 2hours at least commute each day. I'd pretty much given up climbing and mountaineering due to no time. I'd be asleep within minutes of walking in the door. Briskoda then became very hard to manage also. I resolved to maintain it, but not develop it. Those around from '02 will know it used to change frequently, sometimes for the worse.

I'm a creative, I create using software. I was bored of sitting in traffic, plus I fell asleep behind the wheel twice, so I quit for a local job. Got very bored, very quickly as it was not a creative job. Then went on a climbing trip to norway; amazing, and nearly got killed; warming moment. I realised hanging on a ledge in Norway that actually BRISKODA represented something I'd in part created; fostered maybe better. For the next few weeks, in Norway; lots of 3am walks, I set to thinking about options I had.

Where I got to then it that time was, I needed to create 'stuff' that people used and enjoyed using. Because thats what I love doing. But I'd need some client work; freelance development, so I could offset and afford the time to get to do all this cutting edge, amazing; more whizz bang words, for the community if so desired.

---

Where I'm at today is... I'm almost out of my personal savings. I still believe in the community, it's growing and is gaining support through freedom. I believe in the community as a whole, because I've invested so much into it, but also each freedom purchased mail and feedback post on 'best forum out there' helps. Hearing some of the spending as a result of reading makes me hide though :P Still not over that after 12years services here, but a good 12 years.

So I go out and get client web development work, it's hard. It's really hard due to the goals I set in who I wanted to help with my knowledge... a flawed plan I now know, but it turns out small companies/individuals bereft of decent web/it skills, don't tend to have much of a budget either.

So briskoda ironically forms a bit of a catch22... I can't go off on a 3/6 month contract or take another permanent job because it; briskoda, takes too much time in it's current form. I'd be compromised in any job and the site also would go back to stasis mode, not good for it!

I wanted to share all this so people knew where I'm at. Because today the underlying operation, accounting, insurances, servers, licenses, password resets, can't register, take downs are all done by me. I think it's only right and fair, when I ask a company pays £30 a month to support the site, or you to donate £12 into freedom, I know where it goes, and it's not far, but it's further than £0. You now know I'm not on a beach in the Caymans. I've got enough fuel in the citigo to make it to Whitby for chips!

I can assure everyone that despite the number of sponsors and freedom members, the site is not in profit. The time I spend in the forums, like the moderators is voluntary.

I firmly believe in the core being open and free to use; also that Freedom is optional and a freely opted into arrangement. Beyond that extras that directly cost the community pot, directly or indirectly need to be covered in some way. I hope I've shown how that is with the onion layers.

If anyone is reading this, my other musings and shares some of my visions, get in touch. I/we could use a business mentor/partner and I'm about ready to change up a gear.

Thank you for reading.

ps

some sites I use, if you run adblockers they make pages load slower, or block. We don't.

Freedom rate is <10% of community total, but 100% more than nothing!

some options to discuss: higher rates for advertisers, more impact required to gain return on investment. Lower freedom rates, i.e. digital freedom only ( no sticker ). donate block ( appearing later, if it works )

After reading this, if you did do a 'donate' feature, id have no problem sending some money. It wouldnt be a lot, but as you say. Itd be more than nothing.

I obviously cant speak for everyone, but im sure im not the only one who would donate? Especially after reading that!

[theezenutz]

After reading this, if you did do a 'donate' feature, id have no problem sending some money. It wouldnt be a lot, but as you say. Itd be more than nothing.

I obviously cant speak for everyone, but im sure im not the only one who would donate? Especially after reading that!

+1 I'd be willing to make a donation.

[Heath]

Personally I became a Freedom member because I found the site to be a valuable source of help and information, as well as a good place to enjoy some decent fun and banter. Some of the advice I have received, or picked up on through searching topics, has saved me on time, cash, and getting stressed out with issues concerning my Fabia.

 

Not mechanically minded I am unable to make helpful contributions repair wise etc.; so my Freedom membership is a way for me to give a little something back. That said, I have no issues what so ever with forum users not wishing to be Freedom members

[Welsh_kai_boy]

I forgot to add last night, I also want to reflect those who have joined freedom in the past. But now for whatever reason are not in freedom sold car, moved on etc. This will likely be in the form of a freedom:ex group title only initially.

 

Thats part of the freedom will evolve statement, but it's a detail i wanted to stress. Past support is appreciated, it's got us to this point today. 

Freedom Alumni?

[ColinD]

That's neater... 

 

Nice one!

[ColinD]

The Alumni is created. Now to move everyone, this could be bumpy, off to fire up the test server.

 

I've also added the donation logic in, under client area. Also noting donations come in time and writing too key take away, it's not just £ shilling and pence. Although I heard there were plans to get rid of the penny. nooooooo

 

There is also a donation block on the forum home page but it's really nasty. Looking to alter it, but I hate it's interface, so "itchy".

[Dr Zoidberg]

Maybe just "Contributors" might work as an alternative, though I see you've already gone for Alumni since I started typing.

One gaming forum I use has "Supporters" status for £5 a year, but that's legally run as a cooperative society rather than as a business like Brisky.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Aside from cash, is there anything else that forum members might be able to help with on the technical side?
Like most forums we have a fair few IT staff that post here, so may have useful skills.....