DSG in P mode and Handbrake

[Minimoke]

Hi,

 

I’ve got a question regarding the DSG in Park Mode.

 

Situation is that I park on my drive facing down a slope. When I park I apply the handbrake fully (there is no further upward movement to be had) and leave the car in P. Everything is initially fine and dandy.

 

But after a little while the car starts to make an intermittent creaking noise.  I get the impression that as the rear discs cool down the parking brake may be letting the car inch forward imperceptibly.  

 

Today whilst cleaning the car (shortly after I had parked) the creaking started and when I pushed the tailgate of the car really hard the car moved fractionally and made the noise. I tried the handbrake and it was still fully applied and there is no further upward movement available.

 

Now I can understand that the rear brake may release itself fractionally as it cools, but the car is always left in P and my understanding is that this locks the transmission and the car should threrefore not move.

 

Any thoughts?

[toni8b]

I have the same thing, you can easily achieve it while getting into or out of the car on some slope.

 

Apparently its normal:

 

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/bugs-faults-irritations/78729-creaking-rear-getting-into-car.html

 

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/creaking-when-handbrake-applied.42533/

[Minimoke]

I have the same thing, you can easily achieve it while getting into or out of the car on some slope.

 

Apparently its normal:

 

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/bugs-faults-irritations/78729-creaking-rear-getting-into-car.html

 

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/creaking-when-handbrake-applied.42533/

I can accept that the handbrake may become less effective as the discs cool down, but the consequence is that the car is effectively relying on the transmission to prevent it moving fprward.

 

I would have thought that would place an unfair strain on the DSG locking mechanism?  

[Telboy5]

My advice would be, if parking in such conditions, to put the handbrake on, put the DSG in P, take hand brake off, car will roll fractionally, then apply handbrake again - I promise you the car won't budge 

[kallekilponen]

I've had an inch or two of movement in P in every automatic car I've had so far, so that's normal. But yeah, to avoid it moving after you've parked it, first gently let it rest against the P -locking pin and when you feel it stick, apply the hand brake fully. Should stay put.

[Minimoke]

Thanks for the replies. Useful information and its nice to know it's just not me experiencing this.

[pipsyp]

Is worth noting that the parking pawl is just a large metal pin that deploys in park to effectively lock the gearbox and prevent the car moving.

 

I guess it is rather the equivalent to leaving a manual in 1st or reverse on an incline; something you obviously cannot do with an automated gearbox.

 

Certainly the parking pawl can break if placed under undue strain, so its not recommended to park the vehicle and place load on the pawl then apply the handbrake as you'll just risk breaking the pawl....then you'll have no park function at all...depending how it breaks you might have no other gears either.

 

To fix a broken parking pawl will likely be a gearbox out job....it could if you are very unlucky lunch the box altogether.

 

Ive had several VAG vehicles and none of them have had fabulous handbrakes; particularly cars with disc brakes.  My Mk3 Octavia is no exception.  I pretty much leave it in gear whenever I park as I dont entirely trust the handbrake...as some O3's have been known to roll away and crash into stuff...quite well documented on here.

[Smeghead]

Mine makes the same noise at traffic lights on a hill with the HB deployed.  SWMBO's Polo does the same, as does my van and the nipper's Fiat.  I wouldn't worry about it.

[Minimoke]

Is worth noting that the parking pawl is just a large metal pin that deploys in park to effectively lock the gearbox and prevent the car moving.

 

Certainly the parking pawl can break if placed under undue strain, so its not recommended to park the vehicle and place load on the pawl then apply the handbrake as you'll just risk breaking the pawl....then you'll have no park function at all...depending how it breaks you might have no other gears either.

 

To fix a broken parking pawl will likely be a gearbox out job....it could if you are very unlucky lunch the box altogether.

 

 Thats precisely what was worrying me about this !!!

[kallekilponen]

Is worth noting that the parking pawl is just a large metal pin that deploys in park to effectively lock the gearbox and prevent the car moving.

 

...

 

Certainly the parking pawl can break if placed under undue strain, so its not recommended to park the vehicle and place load on the pawl then apply the handbrake as you'll just risk breaking the pawl....then you'll have no park function at all...depending how it breaks you might have no other gears either.

 

...

That's why I recommend only letting it engage softly before applying the parking break, you definitely shouldn't let the car rest solely on it before applying the parking break.

 

How solid the construction is varies on the type of transmission. On the 6 speed DSG it appears to be quite sturdy (see image below), but I'm not sure if that's the case with the 7 speed version.

[lostp]

I park on a downslope too and I'm wary of putting too much strain on the gearbox pin. What I do is:

 

1. Reverse up the drive (so I'm facing downhill) and (while footbrake applied) engage the handbrake
2. Put it in neutral and release the footbrake - the car does roll forward but it's stopped by the brake
3. Only now engage P so that there is no strain on the gearbox

[kallekilponen]

 

I park on a downslope too and I'm wary of putting too much strain on the gearbox pin. What I do is:

 

1. Reverse up the drive (so I'm facing downhill) and (while footbrake applied) engage the handbrake
2. Put it in neutral and release the footbrake - the car does roll forward but it's stopped by the brake
3. Only now engage P so that there is no strain on the gearbox

 

The problem with this approach is that if the hand break does fail, it's going to jerk on the parking pawl instead of gently resting on it.

[Stewart7]

On 09/03/2015 at 13:24, kallekilponen said:

The problem with this approach is that if the hand break does fail, it's going to jerk on the parking pawl instead of gently resting on it.

No.  Unless you're unlucky and the cable breaks, it will 'fail' slowly as the disks cool down and the car will 'gently' put its weight on the parking pawl.

[dunc69]

As per @lostp - and my drive is steep!

 

Use the HB not the park pin. 

 

On the occasions that the car has ended up resting against the Park Pin, it has been tough to then engage reverse (without some force) in order to reverse up and off the drive. 

 

My ‘mechanical sympathy’ tells me this approach is all wrong! 

[Stewart7]

On 28/09/2018 at 23:07, dunc69 said:

As per @lostp - and my drive is steep!

 

Use the HB not the park pin. 

 

On the occasions that the car has ended up resting against the Park Pin, it has been tough to then engage reverse (without some force) in order to reverse up and off the drive. 

 

My ‘mechanical sympathy’ tells me this approach is all wrong! 

So does mine.  As noted above, if you allow the weight of the car to rest on the parking pawl and not the handbrake, when you next want to move, the linkage from the gear lever has to pull the pawl out of the gear wheel that is trying to hold onto it.

[Adrian55555]

@Minimoke before you apply the handbrake press the brake pedal down hard, this will take some slack out and you usually can apply handbrake tighter.  This should stop the creak.  

[Minimoke]

11 hours ago, Adrian55555 said:

@Minimoke before you apply the handbrake press the brake pedal down hard, this will take some slack out and you usually can apply handbrake tighter.  This should stop the creak.  

 

Interesting thread revival - I solved the problem over 3 years ago by p/exing the Octavia with a Merc C Class Estate !!!!

[gkr47]

I thought there was a small drum brake for the handbrakes so cooling of discs would make no difference?

Edited 2 October, 2018 by gkr47

[ian_feel_keepin_it_reel]

Pain the arse to do every day but if it's a big concern just chock your wheels?

[PetrolDave]

3 hours ago, gkr47 said:

I thought there was a small drum brake for the handbrakes so cooling of discs would make no difference?

Nope, disc only.

[ords]

On 28/09/2018 at 20:50, Stewart7 said:

No.  Unless you're unlucky and the cable breaks, it will 'fail' slowly as the disks cool down and the car will 'gently' put its weight on the parking pawl.

There are some threads here whereby the HB has released itself with a bang

[Stewart7]

2 hours ago, ords said:

There are some threads here whereby the HB has released itself with a bang

If there is a fault with the handbrake, or you happen to apply it into a position where the pawl isn't fully engaged with the ratchet under the hand brake lever, resting near the tip of a tooth say, then maybe it could release with a bang.  But that is not more likely to happen when you are parked on a slope.

The handbrake mechanism inside the car, doesn't know what angle the car is when you apply it.  When parking on an incline, I suggest it is best to apply the handbrake, then select park.  If the slope is so steep, or the brake not on hard enough, then as said previously, the brakes will allow the weight of the car to gently rest on the pawl in the gearbox.  At least this is better than stopping on a slope, selecting park, releasing the footbrake, and then applying the handbrake.

[PetrolDave]

4 hours ago, ords said:

There are some threads here whereby the HB has released itself with a bang

If there's a bang doesn't that suggest that it's the ratchet on the handbrake lever that has "let go", possibly from not being fully engaged when it was applied?

[BlockABoots]

What i do on my slop drive (slops down to road)

 

reverse onto the drive

brake when in position

place gear into N

apply handbrake

release brake

car rolls forward slightly

place gear into P