URGENT - vRS non start

[wilsonian]

Hello,

 

I've had a bit of an ordeal with my car tonight. I came to it around 16:00 and the car fails to start. Key turn, lights come up. coil pack light goes out (as normal), you hear the fuel pump pressurise but nothing. No starter motor attempt - nothing.

 

Green flag messed me about and didn't attend for over 4 hours. I tried it every hour and on the 4th hour the car started, no cough no struggle - it's was fine. I left it running for a few minutes, turned off the engine and started it again fine.

 

After I got home I turn off the engine and tried to start it. Nothing!

 

I pulled the other halves car along sid e(a 1.4 TDI Fabi MK2 - same battery) and hooked it up for 5 minutes. still nothing, so it's not my battery.

 

Does anyone have an idea what it could be?

[TMB]

Dodgy starter motor? Ignition switch? Battery earth connection to strut turret?

[Breezy_Pete]

Pretty strong chance that the starter solenoid wire has almost parted, approximately where the red arrow is pointing in this picture:

 

 

If the insulation cracks at that corner and the wire inside corrodes, it will eventually get to a stage where it can't happily convey the necessary current to the solenoid. 

This may give you some intermittent working before it breaks completely.

[Chris Berry]

Sounds like the 'Loose wire' on the starter.

 

I had exactly the same issue.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/264387-dodgy-starter-connection-found/

[devonutopia]

Definitely starter motor wiring related - Been there, done that.....

[wilsonian]

Can it be intermittent? I'll check this tomorrow as it's raining sideways at the moment. Many thanks for the quick replies.

[devonutopia]

Oh yes - the wiring can move about / wobble making / breaking the connection.  Wiggling the wire worked for me for a little while but eventually it simply gave up.

[vindaloo]

Also slightly involved to access/fix. Can probably get a finger or two in to wiggle the wire but replacing it means the airbox and battery and battery box come out.

[wilsonian]

So green flag came out for a home start today and they checked the wiring and couldn't find an issue. After hitting the starter motor a fair few times the car jumped into life. He recommend replacing the motor due to the solenoid sticking.

 

Would people agree? I see a Bosch one from autotrader is £110.

[vindaloo]

I still reckon it's the wiring.

 

Unless the Green flag man decided to take bits off to properly access the connector. Likelihood is that the conductor is broken under the insulation. Whacking the starter motor probably did no more than slightly tweak the wires to work for 5 minutes.

 

J.

[Breezy_Pete]

Yep, definitely worth a bit of time and effort to carefully check that wire. Think how irritating it would be to have that wire fall apart as you go to fit your new starter, and then find that you can't get a refund.

[wilsonian]

yeah very good point. unfortunately I'm away this weekend with the family so I hope to get under my car next week some time. I'll keep you all updated.

[Chris Berry]

Green Flag man did the same with me. Clonked the starter motor & it came back to life. But when it happened again I checked the wiring & the wire came off in my hand!! Just because it 'looks' ok doesnt mean that it is ok.

[niceyellow vrs]

This:

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/264387-dodgy-starter-connection-found/

[wilsonian]

Just a quick update. I've been away for a few days in another car and every time since that incident I've tested the car, it's started fine. I hope to have a good look at the wiring (with the battery removed). I'll try and keep you all updated.

[wilsonian]

OK Last update. It was the wire. I was able to get my farther to sort out a new section of wire with heat sleeving.

 

Thanks for the comments and links.

[Breezy_Pete]

 

Reminds me, I must get around to repairing that wire on her car properly soon. Choc block wrapped in a token amount of insulation tape just isn't good enough for the long-term!   

[Aldoo]

I just did this the other night! Happened after work last year and the AA man put a new crimp on it and said it was a permanent fix ..it was till Tuesday!!

Ended up snapping mid wire though, the actual crimp was fine!

Battery and airbox out to get to it (but I just did that because he did it, thinking afterward I think it'd be possible with just the battery box out)

Edit - is everyone talking about the thin wire? That's obviously no where near thick enough for a starter motor - is it just a remote wire or something? ..or am I talking a different wire?

Edited 10 April, 2015 by Aldoo

[Updown789]

I just did this the other night! Happened after work last year and the AA man put a new crimp on it and said it was a permanent fix ..it was till Tuesday!!

Ended up snapping mid wire though, the actual crimp was fine!

Battery and airbox out to get to it (but I just did that because he did it, thinking afterward I think it'd be possible with just the battery box out)

Edit - is everyone talking about the thin wire? That's obviously no where near thick enough for a starter motor - is it just a remote wire or something? ..or am I talking a different wire?

Its the wire that powers the solenoid to engage the starter with the ring gear on the flywheel

[Breezy_Pete]

Its the wire that powers the solenoid to engage the starter with the ring gear on the flywheel

Correct; but also simultaneously connecting the main feed to the starter, 'relay-style'.

[Aldoo]

Its the wire that powers the solenoid to engage the starter with the ring gear on the flywheel

Correct; but also simultaneously connecting the main feed to the starter, 'relay-style'.

Ahh - thought it would be something like that ..so I am on about the right wire lol

[vindaloo]

I just did this the other night! Happened after work last year and the AA man put a new crimp on it and said it was a permanent fix ..it was till Tuesday!!

Ended up snapping mid wire though, the actual crimp was fine!

Battery and airbox out to get to it (but I just did that because he did it, thinking afterward I think it'd be possible with just the battery box out)

Edit - is everyone talking about the thin wire? That's obviously no where near thick enough for a starter motor - is it just a remote wire or something? ..or am I talking a different wire?

 

Mine did the same. I'd crimped it mid-wire. Lasted over 2 years before it failed again. I now have a slightly better solution. I re-used the original plug with a new length of wire. That goes into a solidly mounted choc block.... Though I've used the dreaded insulation tape to hold it all together.

 

Problem with the airbox is the front screw mount overhangs the battery box. Probably quicker to just accept that the airbox is moving out. Though I nearly always forget about that stupid clip for the MAF wiring.

[sparky2]

The permanent solution was to extend the wire by about 3 inches, I stripped the wire and made sure it was not black and corroded and soldered a new piece of 1mm flex to it and insulated it with heatshrink sleeving and put a new connector on the starter end, on the VRS its very tight from the loom to the starter motor and its only a matter of time before it snaps off with the movement of the engine.

[vRSAnt]

I feel bad now I didn't use heatshrink. Just soldered in new wire and taped the hell out of it.

That said, there is a good possibility it will outlast the car.

 

There are 2 wiring flaws also, the first one to go was the "load" one, thats the one that throws up the dash light after 30 mins ?

 

This is the one I wasn't expecting and I went out and got a new battery ( although I didn't have warranty left on old one and now have 4 yrs or whats left of that which isn't bad).

 

As I did the load one a few years ago and thats still going strong I guess my laymans fix should last log enough until something more permanent fails on the car. Although it doesn't seem likely at the moment, she's a go-er !

[vRSAnt]

Correction I think its 10 mins on the load wire. And the car still runs just that it throws the dash light.