vRS Mk. II 1.4 litre twincharger oil consumption issues

[Ootohere]

@Fitzwilliam

Sadly you are finding why so many punt Fabia vRS and why there are warnings about them when someone posts about buying one.

?

Are you keeping the car and not putting it back to the dealer that sold it?

If they have to repair it they would probably be looking at more than just the Oil Spray Jet upgrade and Software.

It would be an engine rebuild or replacement.

 

Black Soot under acceleration with a CAVE vRS is not an issue when you boot it after just running about, as soot on the tail pipe is not a problem.

They run rich when cold.

They might use oil and have no oil spots on the bumper because the Oil is burnt in the Cat and the oil can be accounted for with Bore Wash.

 

I worry more about a 'Grey' Tail pipe with a car that is being used about town and not getting longer, up to heat runs.

Running lean at low RPM with a Twincharger is a bad thing IMO.

 

I certainly would go 5w 40 FS to VW502.  Denso Plugs if that is not what is fitted, Super Unleaded and be sure there is a nice clean airfilter.

Edited 4 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[Fitzwilliam]

55 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

@Fitzwilliam

Sadly you are finding why so many punt Fabia vRS and why there are warnings about them when someone posts about buying one.

?

Are you keeping the car and not putting it back to the dealer that sold it?

If they have to repair it they would probably be looking at more than just the Oil Spray Jet upgrade and Software.

It would be an engine rebuild or replacement.

 

Black Soot under acceleration with a CAVE vRS is not an issue when you boot it after just running about, as soot on the tail pipe is not a problem.

They run rich when cold.

They might use oil and have no oil spots on the bumper because the Oil is burnt in the Cat and the oil can be accounted for with Bore Wash.

 

I worry more about a 'Grey' Tail pipe with a car that is being used about town and not getting longer, up to heat runs.

Running lean at low RPM with a Twincharger is a bad thing IMO.

 

I certainly would go 5w 40 FS to VW502.  Denso Plugs if that is not what is fitted, Super Unleaded and be sure there is a nice clean airfilter.

Come what may I will be keeping the car, don’t have the money to change again. Need to find out if there are any independent garages that can do the oil squirters change plus software upgrade at a reasonable price as there is no way I can afford Skoda main dealer prices. Btw what is bore wash ?

Edited 4 March, 2019 by Fitzwilliam

[Ootohere]

Dealers have to pay. You have legal rights when you are sold a Oil User, or any other faulty vehicle.

You have to be let them know though. No point you spending over £500 and maybe still having a oil user.

[Fitzwilliam]

28 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

Dealers have to pay. You have legal rights when you are sold a Oil User, or any other faulty vehicle.

You have to be let them know though. No point you spending over £500 and maybe still having a oil user.

I’ve just texted the dealer who I got the car from and told him about the problem, he’s going to get the local garage he uses to have a look at it, thing is as they’re not a Skoda/VW specialist are they going to have any idea what’s needed. It’s a real shame as in every other respect the car is perfect, performance is phenomenal, gearbox is great, fuel economy is a bit of a letdown at 37-38mpg but I’ve not done any journeys over 15 miles so far and we’re not out of winter yet.

[Ootohere]

37-38 mpg is pretty damn good for short journeys.

If you drove another 10 miles or even further it would show 42, then 53 mpg quite likely and be getting that or better.

 

If you took it 20 miles then found a 'private road' and gave it some welly for another 20 miles it might not use much oil after you drop the oil and fit a Mahle Filter and 5w 40 FS oil.

 

Not sure what the dealers friendly garage will be able to do other than similar to what i suggest above to see if it is an oil user.

 

I have driven enough supposed oil users that turned out not to be an oil user when given a change of the 'Recommended Consumables'.

Different plugs, filters and oil from that Main Dealers use and the Manufacturers did.

 

Edited 4 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[Fitzwilliam]

5 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

37-38 mpg is pretty damn good for short journeys.

If you drove another 10 miles or even further it would show 42, then 53 mpg quite likely and be getting that or better.

 

If you took it 20 miles then found a 'private road' and gave it some welly for another 20 miles it might not use much oil after you drop the oil and fit a Mahle Filter and 5w 40 FS oil.

 

Not sure what the dealers friendly garage will be able to do other than similar to what i suggest above to see if it is an oil user.

 

I have driven enough supposed oil users that turned out not to be an oil user when given a change of the 'Recommended Consumables'.

Different plugs, filters and oil from that Main Dealers use and the Manufacturers did.

 

It has a Mahle oil filter already, it also had the plugs, air filter and fuel filter as well as fresh gearbox oil replaced about 2500 miles ago, no idea what make the plugs are.

[Ootohere]

What ever plugs that are in will be fine then because the car has been well serviced and you are getting good MPG if that is from the brim to brim and not just the maxidot.

 

Have you zeroed MPG 1 and 2?  

 

So best just see what the garage comes up with, they will likely be doing a compression check.

A Borescope is not going to show anything.

 

Do you know if your car has the Breather Mod and Software Update?

It had a lot of oil changes.

[Fitzwilliam]

4 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

What ever plugs that are in will be fine then because the car has been well serviced and you are getting good MPG if that is from the brim to brim and not just the maxidot.

 

Have you zeroed MPG 1 and 2?  

 

So best just see what the garage comes up with, they will likely be doing a compression check.

A Borescope is not going to show anything.

 

Do you know if your car has the Breather Mod and Software Update?

It had a lot of oil changes.

The mpg is via the trip computer, I checked the trip computer accuracy on my last 3 Skodas with brim to brim calculations and they were all within the range +1.5% to +2% so I’m guessing the VRS is similar particularly as I’ve got the larger 215 section tyres. I found a link on one thread which you input your chassis number and it checks if there are any recalls/updates that haven’t been done, that came up empty. Would I be better advised to contact my local Skoda dealer and get them to find out if there have been any mods/updates done to my car ?

[Ootohere]

Yes Dealership or Skoda UK CS to see what Skoda ever paid to have done or have on the system as done.

 

Breather Mod 1, or Breather Mod 2 which was a trial in Australia were never service campaigns, just a TPI that could then have an action if a owner complaigned enough and had an Oil Consumption Test.

Oil Spray Jets were the same, not a Service Campaign, or Recall Action.

 

http://skoda-auto.com/services/recall-actions

This VIN checker is no better than the one it replaced. It never showed 34H5, and got 34F7 wrong often, and missed the Heated Seat TPI as well. 

[GT0161]

@Fitzwilliam im going through the process with skoda of consumption test keep an eye on my thread for updates im due back at skoda in a week or so 

 

[Fitzwilliam]

Phoned up my 2 nearest Skoda dealers this morning, Heyselden in Doncaster and Bickerton in Sheffield, the guy I spoke to at Heyselden said he’d never heard of the oil consumption problem on the VRS or the breather or oil jet mods to sort it which I thought was very odd, he did check my cars recall history and found the only work done was a gearbox oil change.

The guy I spoke to at Bickerton seemed to be much more on the ball and said they had worked on several cars with the issue, he said most had involved expensive major engine strip down work, one he remembers needed the piston rings replacing. He said, as seems to be the norm, I’d need to have an oil consumption test done at a total cost of over £200. Tbh that’s a total waste of money when I know from my own checks that it’s probably using 3x the amount that’s considered a reasonable maximum usage.

 

[Ootohere]

What was the first persons actual job? 

Did they not have access to a keyboard to check the TPI's, or a phone, or a door to the Workshop to talk to an actual VW Trained Technician?

 

As to the 2nd one.

Skoda / VW / SEAT had engines rebuilt, 2009 & 2010,  then started getting Short Units in 2011,

  so already built, then went to Base Units, so came with the head.

 

@GT0161

Posted his invoice for the Oil Consumption test.   Maybe that was just Part 1, but it should not be.

 

If you know you have an oil user then no point having someone else do and Oil & Filter change, weigh etc then you driving the car and paying money,

unless someone else is paying to repair the car.

Edited 5 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[Sittingbull]

On 05/03/2019 at 15:27, Fitzwilliam said:

Phoned up my 2 nearest Skoda dealers this morning, Heyselden in Doncaster and Bickerton in Sheffield, the guy I spoke to at Heyselden said he’d never heard of the oil consumption problem on the VRS or the breather or oil jet mods to sort it which I thought was very odd, he did check my cars recall history and found the only work done was a gearbox oil change.

The guy I spoke to at Bickerton seemed to be much more on the ball and said they had worked on several cars with the issue, he said most had involved expensive major engine strip down work, one he remembers needed the piston rings replacing. He said, as seems to be the norm, I’d need to have an oil consumption test done at a total cost of over £200. Tbh that’s a total waste of money when I know from my own checks that it’s probably using 3x the amount that’s considered a reasonable maximum usage.

 

 

I apologise for not doing the multiple quote thing.

 

If you're using a litre of oil every 600 miles, then you're in the territory of needing major work done, preferably under warranty by the dealer who sold you the car. You bought a car in good faith expecting it to be able to do you a turn without needing a potential engine change inside a matter of weeks. You'll need to engage in the games side of it now, preferably with the second dealer you spoke to, as they at least didn't attempt the hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil tripe that the first one did.

 

This would involve an oil consumption test, but going by your usage your car will fail the test. It then becomes a matter of how the dealer is prepared to seek remedy of the situation. Hopefully from your perspective this involves a new engine, at cost to the warranty company, or a rebuild at cost to the warranty company.

 

37 to 38mpg is bang on for your short journeys. That's what my wife has averaged on similar journeys over 4 and a half years of ownership, so that part is fine.

 

Stick to your guns, you want the car as it was intended to be, and it's you who stands to be out of pocket.

[GT0161]

@Sittingbull 37-38 mpg is good 

i get 31 on the motorways i have no idea why im only getting 23-24 mpg driving like an oap ? 

Driving me mad 

[Ootohere]

Something pretty wrong if you are doing 70 mph or so with a not very heavy load and the car is at about 2,400-2,600 rpm and you are not getting in the 40's MPG with Super Unleaded.

Are you zeroing the Maxi Dot before setting off on trips.

Around town on short cold starts 23-24 can be right. Go longer than 10 miles and it is poor though.

 

This type of figure at 70 mph or so with a standard CAVE.

Car not even up to efficient oil temp.

Edited 10 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[Ootohere]

This is on Page 1 of this thread if anyone is looking at getting the Oil Spray Jet update.

This was on a New CTHE engine, one of the first ones. 

[Fitzwilliam]

When I visited the garage my seller recommended there investigation showed there was a problem with the pipe either entering or exiting the supercharger, they weren’t specific,  it’s booked in again with them on Wednesday to get it rectified. The guy said it could possibly have a bearing on the oil consumption.

Judging by the invoice for the oil spray jet work parts excluding new oil comes in at about £200, I’m guessing the job is just done by dropping the sump which doesn’t seem too drastic or time consuming, possibly something the mechanic I use for all my servicing to tackle fairly easily. I’m going to look at other avenues first with regard to the oil consumption, I’m not going to 5w40 oil yet as I’ve got a stock of C3 in already, I’m going to try something which I used years ago to combat oil consumption successfully, STP Oil Treatment, in this case  STP Synthetic Oil Treatment, I’ve ordered some and it should be here in the next few days, the 300ml bottle is said to be enough to treat 4.8litres so I’ll only need to add 225mls to the engine, the rest I can blend with 1.2litres of top up oil.

The results I had from using the stuff (almost 50) years ago was pretty dramatic as I remember, dropping consumption by more than 50%, if I can get that sort of a reduction now I’d be ecstatic.

With regard to previously mentioned poor motorway fuel consumption, on the maxidot display one of the readouts shows instantaneous MPG, it does vary quite a bit almost from second to second with changes of gradient but it does give a fair indication, probably best checked by setting a speed with cruise control if fitted. Good idea to make sure tyre pressures have not dropped below recommended, a couple of psi down will give more drag at motorway speeds and increase fuel usage quite a bit.

I’ve had the trip 2 set since I got the car and it currently showing 38.4mpg with a best single out of town run of 47mpg, only done a handful of motorway miles so far though. So far I’ve never logged even a short journey after a cold start of less than 30mpg.

One thing I always do when dealing with hills is nock the selector across to manual as there’s a tendency for the gearbox to drop down a gear unnecessarily and up the revs in Drive when it can climb the hill perfectly in the higher gear.

Edited 10 March, 2019 by Fitzwilliam

[Ootohere]

You need a software update with the Oil Spray jet update.

A change of Engine Management, so the mechanic needs that so licensed equipment and software

 

 

You are really just messing about with STP or any other oil additives.  (but you will be able to tell us if it works for you.)

Its been tried dozens or hundred of times, probably thousands of times since 2009.

Technicians / Garages have tried it often enough to punt oil users....

 

@Sittingbull might tell you how many he talks to or hears from that have failing CAVE and CTHE's.

The cars have been going around owner after owner and more and more are failing.

 

STP will make no difference.

Topping up oil is OK and seeing how much you use. 

 

An Official Oil Consumption test is New Oil & Filter and oil dropped, weighed, put back in, then miles driven, @ operating temp oil dropped and weighed.

 

PS.

You have a Supercharger to 3,500 rpm, and Turbo & Supercharger from 2,400 to 3,500 rpm.

Really the DSG in D can deal with hills and have the RPM where it gives the PS & NM Torque to get up hills.

 

I use 'S' or across to manual and down shift to decelerate and then back to 'D' and allow 'D' to do upshifts.

Occasionally if really going for it and need to drop a couple of gears to get something off my tail then the manual downshifts is done, 

or back to 'S' and kick down again, or a double kick down.

But then that would be at double the UK NSL...  So not on a public road...

Edited 10 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[Fitzwilliam]

6 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

You are just messing about.

Its been tried dozens or hundred of times.

 

@Sittingbull might tell you how many he talks to or hears from that have failing CAVE and CTHE's.

The cars have been going around owner after owner and more and more are failing.

 

STP will make no difference.

Topping up oil is OK and seeing how much you use. 

 

An Official Oil Consumption test is New Oil & Filter and oil dropped, weighed, put back in, then miles driven, @ operating temp oil dropped and weighed.

It’s strange you’ve said that I did a search of the forum about STP and couldn’t  find anything mentioned anywhere, tbh from previous experience I doubt it will make no difference at all. I’m not going the Official Oil Consumption Test route as it’s a complete waste of money, which being a pensioner is in short supply, likewise having remedial work done by Skoda dealers, too expensive.

The way that my car performs and the fuel consumption I’m getting certainly to me doesn’t indicate it’s on it’s last legs. Looking at cars for sale on Autotrader there are plenty of CAVE engined cars up for sale that have done 80-110000 miles which are still running so they obviously don’t all self destruct as seems to be the common assumption, at the mileage I do it will take me another 5 years to even get to 80000 miles.

[Ootohere]

Topping up the oil and being careful to watch the spark plugs are not fouling has worked for plenty of owners and they keep the cars.

(that one plug is not fouling and burning the tip.)

 

There are plenty 'Mechanics' / Mechanical Engineers around that remember STP, plenty that served their time when a customer asked for Slick 50.

 

Just because there are none online mentioning STP that does not mean their dad / mum, uncle / aunt or some older person did not say, 

lets try this.

 

There is a lot that has gone on and going on not mentioned in these threads.  People not wanting to appear stupid. 

Or stuff not on Facebook. Like punting cars to Evans Halshaw, WBAC or on Ebay / Autotrader and get shot of.

 

There are 1,800 CAVE first registered in the UK. 1,050 or so CTHE.

 

I know how many are no longer on the DVLA database as still with VED or on a SORN.

Over 100 cars gone in the past 3 years.

 

Some of us watch what cars are for sale. 

*There are cars about with like 5 or 6 previous registered keepers, and someone buys, finds it is faulty and flogs it.*

 

if only 25% of CAVE engines have failed then there are good ones. But there are replaced engines failing.

Lots you see advertised are not on Original engines, some are not on the replacement engines.

There are members here that had 100,000 mile twincharger cars that were fine.

@lol-lol might look in and tell you how many miles he did. 

 

Look at the long term owners on this forum, and ones that have had a CAVE then a CTHE and some still have.

Edited 10 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[Fitzwilliam]

2 hours ago, Skoffski said:

This is on Page 1 of this thread if anyone is looking at getting the Oil Spray Jet update.

This was on a New CTHE engine, one of the first ones. 

Are the part numbers the same for the CAVE engine ?

[Ootohere]

To my knowledge yes.

There is an Oil Squirter thread if you check, maybe more than one.

Best not just google just 'squirters' though'.

 

I would save your money and give the Oil Squirters a miss.

Edited 10 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[Fitzwilliam]

1 minute ago, Skoffski said:

I would save your money and give the Oil Squirters a miss.

Why ?

[Ootohere]

Because i doubt very much it will make any difference with an early CAVE excessive oil user.  But obviously up to you to try if you think worth it. 

 

You said you have 5w 30 FS LL.  Maybe keep it for later.

But for £16 for 4 litres of VW502 5w 40 fs i would put that in and the STP and see how it goes.

Asda or Comma 5w 40 FS LL to VW502 00 would be my preferred.

Edited 10 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[Fitzwilliam]

3 hours ago, Skoffski said:

Because i doubt very much it will make any difference with an early CAVE excessive oil user.  But obviously up to you to try if you think worth it. 

 

You said you have 5w 30 FS LL.  Maybe keep it for later.

But for £16 for 4 litres of VW502 5w 40 fs i would put that in and the STP and see how it goes.

Asda or Comma 5w 40 FS LL to VW502 00 would be my preferred.

As the oil was only changed 1200 miles ago and with C3 I’ll stick with it and use it with the STP, once my stock is all gone I’ll go to 5w/40, if the STP shows reduced consumption with C3 I’ll use it with 5w/40 as well, I’ll be getting the car serviced at 12 month intervals so there’s only likely to be 5000miles or so between oil changes, I’ll probably have to supply my mechanic with the 5w/40 as he only uses C3, in fact he buys it in 200 litres at a time. 

May be a week or 2 before the level drops enough so I can add the STP, because of the thick consistency I intend to blend it with an equal amount of C3 and heat it up a little, maybe 50-60 centigrade then adding it with the engine at normal operating temperature shouldn’t stress the oil pump or the filter.

Edited 10 March, 2019 by Fitzwilliam