Two week old Octavia, battery discharging

[Stewart7]

I collected my new Octavia from the dealer two weeks ago and had a 12 mile 1 1/2 hour journey home in rain and heavy traffic with lights, wipers, demister all running.  I thought the battery may need a boost so I connected a charger.  The lights on the charger said the battery was only 25% charged. I charged it at 8 amps until it reached 75%.  The next day it was back down to 50%.  Then I did a 150 mile round trip in the dry and in daylight with auto stop/start disabled.  When I got back, I put a voltmeter on the battery and had a reading of 12.64volts.  Overnight it dropped to 12.52volts.  I didn't use the car for 24 hours and by then it had dropped to 12.46volts.

I checked with the dealer and was told, the only drain could be the inside courtesy lights, which I checked, everything else (apart from the alarm) is off when the ignition is off.

My Wife has suggested that the battery on a new car takes quite a pounding due to all the short runs between the production line and the UK.  In and out of car parks, on and off of ship, on and off of transporters, and it only gets a decent charge when the customer drives the car away from the dealer.

Do you think this could be the case, and that it will settle when its had a few decent charges.

The battery is a normal 69amphour lead acid and the car handbook says to charge it at a tenth of its capacity, so 6.9 amps.  I charged it at 8amps.  That extra 1amp wouldn't have damaged it would it?

I'm wondering about getting one of Halfords' little trickle/maintenance chargers and plugging it into the 12volt socket in the back of the car!

 

Sorry to go on so, This is my first ever new car and its got me worried.

 

I'll be grateful for any advice

Regards

S

 

[mannyo]

The car has a battery management computer and it manages the battery state, connecting a charger directly to the battery whilst still connected to the car can damage the ECU. You shouldn't worry about the battery, it's voltage is not important, what is important is the CCA. A new car may well have a lightly discharged battery depending on how long its been sitting around or how many times its been started and not driven. The Octy3 has a lot of electronics that remain fully powered even when the car is fully locked.

 

Its not just the alarm that remains active when the car is locked, the battery management computer, Keyless entry computer and radio memory are fully powered 24/7 and that is why the car has the battery management ECU to shut these off if the battery drops to low.

[Mallettsmallett]

I wouldn't worry about damaging the ecu unless you're using a very agricultural charger. Almost every dealer hardwires CTEK leads to showroom models and if that wasn't safe, they wouldn't do it. I've seen almost all of the vag group dealerships have them installed

Also, resting voltage is very important. It gives an indication, particularly how it drops over time off charge. CCA just tells you what a battery is capable of at maximum capacity as a specific temperature and tells you nothing of a batteries charge state.

The only proper way of testing a battery is to fully charge it and get it drop tested. This needs a piece of equiptment you won't have.

Bottom line is I'd stop worrying about it, unless the car is sluggish turning over, in which case call Skoda assist.One thing you might notice is stop start stop stopping and starting. The car makes sure your battery doesn't drop below a charge level.

Batteries do need decent runs once in a while. If I do local runs with aircon demisters etc on, in the winter I'll just stick it on a ctek once a fortnight.

Edited 30 September, 2015 by Mallettsmallett

[blahde2]

My car does very little running further than 20km. I've never charged it externally and I have had all the gubbins it has in it all on at once during the last few winters.

Heated front seats, headed windscreen and mirrors, headed washer nozzles, headlights, wipers and climate control fan on 3/4 speed over multiple short trips and never had a problem. Granted, start stop self disabled itself very quickly but the car never missed a beat. Maybe in 4 years time the odd charge could help jt, but at new leave it well alone. Old cars needed a hand as their electronics were quite agricultural as we're their batteries.

Also, connecting it to a charger may only bring on the chance that something does go ary and an ECU does throw a hissy fit. In summery, these new cars are very capable, do not worry so much as it will manage itself.

[Neily03]

Are actually having any problems with the car??

[Gabbo]

Unless your car doesn't start or gives a battery warning/errors I would leave it as it is.

Just run the car for a couple of weeks & if you have not had any problems I would forget about it.

Systems like Stop/Start will be disabled automatically if the battery is too low.

 

The battery management in modern cars is quite advanced & allows the battery to discharge, slow charge, fast charge etc under different conditions (battery temperature, electrical load etc).

These functions are designed to extended the life of the battery.

Charging the battery every night will interfere with these systems & may possibly affect the useable life of your battery.

 

Modern cars have "transport" mode which disables background functions (like the alarm/radio etc) to stop the battery from draining quickly.

Plus given the waiting time for an Octavia I'd imagine from factory to your door was less than a month which shouldn't give you any problems with the battery.

Edited 1 October, 2015 by Gabbo

[M12MKD]

Still confused to why on a new car you'd bother charging the battery. The car is designed to take that drain.

 

I've never had to charge a new car's battery, in fact the only time I've had to charge a battery on any car is after it's been stood for a number of months whilst I was out of the country.

[JD52]

I wouldn't worry.

 

Mine has just completed 2000 miles of mostly short journeys and was left for 16 days on the drive while on holiday.

 

It started first time like it had been run the day before.

 

You should only bother if you have trouble starting it when cold.

 

Good luck :sun:

[London Les]

You can check the state of charge by pressing and holding the trip computer button, with the keys in the ignition. I've run a cool box all night off mine and it dropped from 80% to 30%, but started absolutely fine. I've never charged the battery and it seems to vary between 80 and 50% otherwise with lots of short trips.

[andyvee]

I wouldn't worry about damaging the ecu unless you're using a very agricultural charger. Almost every dealer hardwires CTEK leads to showroom models and if that wasn't safe, they wouldn't do it. I've seen almost all of the vag group dealerships have them installed

Also, resting voltage is very important. It gives an indication, particularly how it drops over time off charge. CCA just tells you what a battery is capable of at maximum capacity as a specific temperature and tells you nothing of a batteries charge state.

The only proper way of testing a battery is to fully charge it and get it drop tested. This needs a piece of equiptment you won't have.

Bottom line is I'd stop worrying about it, unless the car is sluggish turning over, in which case call Skoda assist.One thing you might notice is stop start stop stopping and starting. The car makes sure your battery doesn't drop below a charge level.

Batteries do need decent runs once in a while. If I do local runs with aircon demisters etc on, in the winter I'll just stick it on a ctek once a fortnight.

Sorry, this is incorrect advice. You should never connect a charger or jump leads directly to the battery on a car with the battery management ecu, such as the O3.

There is an earth point on the bulkhead for charging and jump starting purposes. The battery management circuitry is easily damaged, you will end up with all kinds of errors, mainly related to SS if you damage the ECU.

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[Mallettsmallett]

Then how come the manafacturers use chargers?

[expostmanpat]

Why are you bothered, apart from the slight inconvenience if the battery fails? The octy battery packed in after about 14 months, called the breakdown number and a new one was supplied foc under warranty. FWIW the reason given for the number of batteries failing after a relatively short life (by the RAC/AA ) chappy was Bluetooth  systems that don't ever turn off, mine isn't bluetooth and the constant drain on the battery was believe it or not found to be leaving the ipod connected in the glove compartment.

[andyvee]

Then how come the manafacturers use chargers?

Because they either connect them correctly as outlined in the handbook, or they are trickle chargers which won't damage the circuitry.

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[Mallettsmallett]

Which is exactly what I'm talking about. I was referring specifically to ctek chargers which I've used on cars and bikes for years now with no issues. The manafacturer does specify somewhere that their charge circuitry and monitoring facility makes them safe to use on modern cars.

[andyvee]

Sorry, but your opening line said to not worry about damaging the ECU when the OP had stated that he had charged at 8A!

The handbook is quite clear and there are warning notices under the bonnet.

I doubt if you would get it replaced under warranty if you fry it as a fault code will be logged indicating that the battery had been charged directly.

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[Mallettsmallett]

I said don't worry about charging because you can charge a battery in situ and referred to a manafacturer I know to be safe. His is clearly not a trickle charger.

You seem to be looking for something to argue about so I'll bow out at this point.

Edited 1 October, 2015 by Mallettsmallett

[andyvee]

All I am doing is referring to the manufacturers Caution statement on P199 of the manual, not trying to start an argument.

 

 

The OP and anyone else who reads this can make their own choice based on the advice given by the manufacturer, or the advice you have given.

 

I wouldn't want anyone else to go through the same pain as I did of getting the CAN Gateway and Battery Monitoring module replaced after experiencing multiple SS errors and other spurious electrical gremlins caused by a short in a wiring harness for the dashboard illumination. The BCM and Columbus ended up getting replaced as well. The car spent over 30 days in the workshop in a year.

 

CTEK do a specific charger designed for vehicles with SS which has a maximum charge current of 3.8A.

[MrAdamwood]

Sorry, this is incorrect advice. You should never connect a charger or jump leads directly to the battery on a car with the battery management ecu, such as the O3.

There is an earth point on the bulkhead for charging and jump starting purposes. The battery management circuitry is easily damaged, you will end up with all kinds of errors, mainly related to SS if you damage the ECU.

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Sorry but that's wrong. You cannot damage anything if your charger/ booster is connected correctly, jump start points are directly connected to the battery so it doesn't make a difference they are simply there for ease of access and safety....it's better in the h&s eyes to use the jump point as you then don't have to touch the 'dangerous' acid filled battery.

Best practice on modern cars with many ecu's if jump starting is to leave the booster connected for a while after it starts to allow the voltage to stabilise so there are no voltage spikes as the smart alternators know the battery is low and run full power which can spike things.

As far as charging goes you have to make sure you have the correct charger for the battery type, cars with ss have agm batteries which need to be charged and tested differently, but as said before if you have all the right stuff and do it right you won't damage it. The drop in voltage after the 150 mile trip was just surface charge.

If it's brand new and your worried take it back.

[andyvee]

Sorry but that's wrong. You cannot damage anything if your charger/ booster is connected correctly, jump start points are directly connected to the battery so it doesn't make a difference they are simply there for ease of access and safety....it's better in the h&s eyes to use the jump point as you then don't have to touch the 'dangerous' acid filled battery.

Best practice on modern cars with many ecu's if jump starting is to leave the booster connected for a while after it starts to allow the voltage to stabilise so there are no voltage spikes as the smart alternators know the battery is low and run full power which can spike things.

As far as charging goes you have to make sure you have the correct charger for the battery type, cars with ss have agm batteries which need to be charged and tested differently, but as said before if you have all the right stuff and do it right you won't damage it. The drop in voltage after the 150 mile trip was just surface charge.

If it's brand new and your worried take it back.

If that is the case, why do Skoda say it is OK to charge the battery directly on non-SS cars, but on SS cars to use the point on the bulkhead? What difference to ease of access or safety is there between a car with SS and a car without?

As I said before, anyone reading this thread can make their own mind up, I am only pointing out the Caution statement in the handbook.

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[mannyo]

Sorry but that's wrong. You cannot damage anything if your charger/ booster is connected correctly, jump start points are directly connected to the battery so it doesn't make a difference they are simply there for ease of access and safety...

 

I believe this is not correct either, my Audi specifically states in the owners handbook that only a trickle charger should be connected directly to the battery. Jump starting directly off the battery must be done directly from the provided terminal which is located in the circuit on the input side of the BCM rather than the output. The battery also has a huge plastic cover over the terminals with a picture of crocodile clips and a big red X through them, and you would have to remove this plastic to get access to the battery negative terminal. On the input side the BCM can regulate the current flow, on the output side it expects that voltage to be within certain parameters, step outside those and bye bye BCM.

 

For an older car without a BCM yes I agree it would make for convenience and safety, but modern electronics does not like having to much current or to many volts as the electronics are just to sensitive.

 

I am a member of the Audi owners club and we have actually had a number of members fry their battery management ECU by jump starting and/or charging with a rapid charger directly on the battery. The BCM is not cheap, and yes it does record faults including over current and over voltage in addition to the various stages of system shutdowns as the battery runs flat.

[mannyo]

Interestingly I've just browsed the O3 owners manual online and on page 204 of the 2013 edition under charing it specifically states that you can trickle charge directly off the battery just like my A8, but in order to perform a rapid charge you must fully disconnect both the positive and negative terminals and charge directly off the battery. So does the O3 have the extra battery post my A8 does?

A properly charged vehicle battery is essential for reliably starting the engine.

› Switch off the ignition and all of the electrical components. 



› Only when performing a “quick-charge”, disconnect both battery cables (first of all “negative”, then “positive”).

› Attach the terminal clamps of the charger to the battery terminals (red = “posi- tive”, black = “negative”).

› Plug the mains cable of the charger into the power socket and switch on the device.

› After charging has been successful: Switch off the charger and remove the mains cable from the power socket.

› Only then disconnect the charger's terminal clamps.

› Reconnect the cables to the battery (first of all “positive”, then “negative”).

It is not necessary to disconnect the cables of the battery if you recharge the ve- hicle battery using low amperages (for example from a mini-charger). Refer to the instructions of the charger manufacturer.

A charging current of 0.1 multiple of the total vehicle battery capacity (or lower) must be used until full charging is achieved.

It is necessary to disconnect both cables before charging the battery with high amperages

[andyvee]

Yes, it has a point on the bulkhead for the earth if you have SS. There should be a caution notice at the end of that section, there was on my first O3 which was one of the first registered in the UK for the launch, and there is on my MY15 as well. The caution notice is as I posted earlier and appears to be a blanket caution applying to all vehicles with SS and all methods of battery charging. In other markets SS is not as prevalent as it is in the UK, which I assume is why they say you can trickle charge directly, then kind of contradict this with the caution notice.

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[M12MKD]

As does the Citigo with StopStart, Fabia, Superb......etc. Not just Skoda my Fiat 500 with Stop Start also had this same warning and extra earth point for the same reason.

 

Anyway as the saying goes, "You can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink", owners can read the notice then it's down to their choice if they pay attention to it or not.

 

As for charging, even in my mk1 fabia, it stated that charing should not be down whilst battery is connected to the car.

[MrAdamwood]

It makes no difference where the earth goes it's a negative chassis!!!! It's all joined together. Jump points are there for ease of use. Putting a jump pack on the battery will not hurt it the battery can supply lots of power in normal a starter takes 300-500amps so no overcurrent problems possible. its all about doing it right.

As for charging as long as it's the right charger and corrected right it's fine. The alternator chargers at a much higher current.

Everything doesn't have to be such a nightmare as made out on these forums! Its all pretty simple when done right.

I have been an auto electrician for 15years I work on everything cars, vans, lorrys, emergency vehicles. And the only time there's a problem is when someone has done something silly like get the +/- the wrong way round.... Then you are well and truly screwed!

[andyvee]

It makes no difference where the earth goes it's a negative chassis!!!! It's all joined together. Jump points are there for ease of use. Putting a jump pack on the battery will not hurt it the battery can supply lots of power in normal a starter takes 300-500amps so no overcurrent problems possible. its all about doing it right.

As for charging as long as it's the right charger and corrected right it's fine. The alternator chargers at a much higher current.

Everything doesn't have to be such a nightmare as made out on these forums! Its all pretty simple when done right.

I have been an auto electrician for 15years I work on everything cars, vans, lorrys, emergency vehicles. And the only time there's a problem is when someone has done something silly like get the +/- the wrong way round.... Then you are well and truly screwed!

I am not trying to start an argument, or challenge your knowledge

 

BUT

 

how many of these vehicles have had Start Stop systems and energy recovery systems?

 

Anyway, just in case the handbook was being over cautious for uneducated owners such as myself, I thought I would check the official Skoda workshop material. The advice there concurs with the owners manual - don't connect to the negative battery terminal as you can damage the SS system (which is controlled by the CAN Gateway and Battery Control Module).

 

As I said earlier, everyone can make their own mind up, I am not trying to preach, but it does annoy me when potentially incorrect advice is given in forums that could potentially cause damage to a vehicle.