Breaking VW Emissions Scandal -Mk I

[gadgetman]

Foreign HGV's reach UK shores maybe on the South Coast of England and have travelled all the way to the North of Scotland before a Police Patrol might stop them because the vehicle is unsafe with thread bare tyres or the likes.

Anyway, there are bigger issues on the UK Governments mind right now.

What utter nonsense.

Forces like Kent, Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire and Cambridgeshire carry out regular checks on foreign lorries with vosa.

I'd be surprised if many made it from Kent to Scotland in a dangerous condition

[Ootohere]

'Utter nonesense'.  I think not, i know not.  You are often surprised it seems.

i see them pulled in, i have talked with them as they wait to get tyres on to be allowed to continue.

Skint, waiting for some Bulgaria, Romanian company to send money.

 

You noticed that VOSA is now DVSA? 

Near 18 months now.

[gadgetman]

Vehicles still labelled vosa round here

[Ootohere]

It shows how hard up they are, or they decided for once not to spend big on re-branding and keep up the hard work.

 

Local and National Government in England Spending money down your way on Safety Partnership new camera vans you were mentioning in the other thread, and Cameras in Tractors & Horse Boxes catching Speeders.

[seboni121]

What utter nonsense.

Forces like Kent, Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire and Cambridgeshire carry out regular checks on foreign lorries with vosa.

I'd be surprised if many made it from Kent to Scotland in a dangerous condition

Regular checks yes but so many continental trucks are on our roads which are far from road legal, the strict rules governing uk trucks far surpas any continental rules, Dvsa do a grand job but can not catch every European HGV trucking company flouting British regulations,

[szking]

 

 

VW has said themselves the cheat software is on a lot of cars but never used or activated, it is dormant, doing nothing... which makes sense.. it stricter emissions countries it is used ,maybe in countries like the UK all we will do is take our cars in, mine included, have it re-flashed with software just excluding the cheat code, and away we go... 

 

 

It's not simply about removing the cheat software. It's about getting the emissions down to what the cheat software indicated and this will obviously impact on performance and mpg

[john999boy]

I've not been following this thread but this email from Ford has just popped into my inbox.

I notice how it seems to have taken them a good few days to release it so maybe they were checking to confirm that some of their employees haven't been doing anything untoward too?

 

 

Dear Mr john999boy

If you follow any sort of media, you’re sure to have heard the stories about emissions testing for diesel engines.

We wanted to take this opportunity to bring you some more positive news and deliver this message from our company Executive Vice President, Jim Farley.

FORD EMISSIONS COMMITMENT

Given the worldwide attention and news coverage related to diesel emissions tests, we at Ford want to make sure our position on these key issues is clear.

First, our vehicles and engines – including our advanced-technology diesel engines – meet all applicable emissions requirements. Importantly, we do not have any so‑called “defeat devices” in our vehicles.

We also fully support efforts to ensure that test procedures more closely match the real‑world conditions that customers experience under normal driving. That is why we have supported the development of a European Real Driving Emissions initiative that is going into law in Europe.

Ford is committed to offering customers high fuel efficiency and low emissions through what we call the “power of choice.” We offer a variety of choices ranging from our EcoBoost-powered petrol vehicles and advanced technology diesels to hybrids, plug-in hybrids and full electric vehicles.

Visit www.ford.co.uk or your local FordStore or Ford dealer to learn more about Ford’s newest vehicles, technology and our commitment to Go Further.

Jim Farley

Executive Vice President, Europe, Middle East and Africa

Ford Motor Company

 

 

[StuartTunstall]

It's not simply about removing the cheat software. It's about getting the emissions down to what the cheat software indicated and this will obviously impact on performance and mpg

How do you know that our cars do not meet EU emission standards with the software not activated? It us just sitting there dormant waiting to be switched on if the country/market Warrent it

If they do meet EU standards with no reason for help from software this can be removed with no effect..

All they need to do is remove the illegal Code

Remember this is a california emission test which is a lot lower than the EU

People have took to much notice of the bull**** in the press by so called experts who have no idea. . Maybe as I said if they are that brilliant they should tell VW how to fix it!!

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[seboni121]

Ford diesels are just as polluting , their new euro6 engine pollutes far more than they advertise

[aerofurb]

Apologies to those on here who disagree with the 'pointless' speculation.....

I understood that the difference between a CR140 diesel and a CR170 was merely software (feel free to put me right).

If the 140 is a little down on power in 'test' mode, presumably the 170 has to go down to the same values I.e. 30+ BHP?

The only way I can see them making the 170 'legal' if that is true, would be to bolt on an Adblue system - what effect would that have?

Did I miss the announcement that the CR170 is 'illegal' in the UK?

[Furbytom]

The number of posts in this thread in such a short space of time is staggering. It'll overtake the Golf R thread soon lol.

[MoggyTech]

Homer Simpson voice on: Woohoo. 

[Tim1631]

Just called in at the dealers and the Service Department Manager put my Reg Number into there system and up came my VIN/Chassie number and my car is NOT affected with the US Cheat scandal. He showed me a list and MKIII Octavia's or MKIII Superbs are not affected.

 

 

Ring your Dealer/Service Dept and ask them to check your Reg Number for conformation 

 

 

 

Disclaimer: " So the Service Department Told Me "

 

 

Benfield Motor Group is now owned by Lookers

Maybe true may not be. I'll wait till something official tells me my car isn't affected. Not listen to people on here. I'm not to bothered about all the none sense abit emissions anyway.

[J&LVRS]

Did I miss the announcement that the CR170 is 'illegal' in the UK?

The possibility is raised in the VW release:

* What is the problem on the affected vehicles?

The function and safety of the vehicle are not impaired.

The nitrogen oxide emissions levels do not meet the regulatory requirements for registering

the vehicle under the Euro 5 standard when the vehicle is driven under normal conditions.

* What is the cause of the fault?

Incorrect exhaust gas values are measured in test mode due to the engine control unit software.

* What effect does this situation have?

The operation of the vehicle is not impaired; the vehicle can be used as usual without restrictions.

The nitrogen oxide emissions levels do not meet the regulatory requirements for registering

the vehicle under the Euro 5 standard.

* Is the safety of the vehicle impaired?

No.

* Which vehicles are affected by the fault?

As the CR 170 is the most powerful engine affected, I think, it seems logical that it will have most difficulty with any emissions tests.

[JohnMcL7]

If the manufacturers are going to go down the route of compulsory remapping, what is going to happen to those folk who have already had performance remaps on their vehicle? Will the owners lose what they have purchased, and will they be compensated for that? Or will the remaps that owners have had done already cover the "new" legislation?

 

Sorry if these questions have been answered already, but as I said in a previous post, many of the replies on here are totally irrelevant and pointless and I am certainly not trawling through 50 pages to find these answers.

 

No-one can answer those questions as no-one knows what the recall is going to involve exactly, the cars aren't meeting the original EU spec they were certified at but then it seem very few other cars are either.  The situation is different to the US where rival cars were using adblue systems to get the emissions down but in Europe, rivals are using similar technology to VW and were able to get certified to the EU spec despite going far over it in practice.

 

This is just a discussion thread, when answers are known (very little is currently known about the situation in Europe) they'll be summarised and pinned somewhere easily accessible.

 

John

Edited 2 October, 2015 by JohnMcL7

[JohnMcL7]

Ford diesels are just as polluting , their new euro6 engine pollutes far more than they advertise

 

I had to smile at that as well, I realise there's going to be a difference between real world and lab testing but the size of the difference is ridiculous.  While I'm sure the manufacturers aren't fitting cheat devices, there must be a lot of rule bending going on to get the emissions so low when testing.  I don't see why VW can't do the same with the recalled cars to get them recertified for their EU bands given rivals with similar technology also got through these tests.

 

John

[Statto]

From HM Governments own people.

http://www.gov.uk/government/news/vw-owners-affected-by-emissions-testing-what-to-do

 

No idea why they keep talking Recall when usually DVSA (VOSA) Recalls are 'Safety' Related defects & 

they say this is not a Safety Issue or they did.

So maybe they have upped it to a Safety & Defect Recall that they can monitor.

So give out the Registered Keepers Contact Details to the Volkswagen Group.

 

No idea why they include the VW Info Website but not the Skoda, Seat or Audi ones.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/dieselinfo

Perhaps it's because the issue meets the second bullet point of point 4. under Vehicle Recalls and Faults, which for your benefit states:

4. Faults with vehicles, parts and accessories

Faults in the way vehicles, vehicle parts and accessories are designed or made have to be registered with the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) if they:

could mean that the vehicle, part or accessory no longer meets the legal standard

Other types of general faults are not registered with DVSA.

How you’ll be told about faults

If you own something affected, you might be sent a letter by the manufacturer telling you:

what the fault is

what you need to do next

who you should contact

You usually don’t have to pay to get the fault fixed.

Other ways of finding out about faults

You can check if your vehicle, part or accessory is listed as having a registered fault in the ‘vehicle manufacturers’ non-code action bulletins’.

What you need to do

You don’t have to do anything about the fault if you don’t want to. However, not getting it fixed could mean that:

it becomes unsafe in the future

your vehicle fails its next MOT

Example

Your vehicle could become unsafe if the vehicle manual has the wrong tyre pressure recommendation in it.

[JohnMcL7]

Owners let off the hook. Perhaps VW will have to pick up any difference straight to government?

 

I don't see how that can work, I've not seen any indication that VW were getting much lower CO2 values than rivals and if VW are going to be billed for higher CO2 emissions than they were rated as then the government could go after pretty much every car manufacturer for the same.

 

John

[Ryeman]

VW got caught. But most other brands emit far higher nox in real life driving. Hybrid battery production causes far more damage to the environment than any other car type. At the end of the day, if you drive you will cause pollution .

When the press get bored of VW bashing I'm sure they will move into another marque.

I read a rebuttal of that somewhere recently re lithium

The mining and processing is not a harmful process

They can be recycled cleanly

The power generation process is getting cleaner all the time ie coal is being gradually replaced all over the world - check out the share price performance of coal producers if in doubt.

Coal and oil represent the reintroduction of one buried carbon into the atmosphere over the last 200 years.

I think the report was in Green Car Reports.........highly recommend for those who understand California's influence in transport of all kinds.

[Ryeman]

I think it's highly unlikely they'd need an adblue system as other similar EU5 diesels do not need it and the nox limit the cars were cheating against in California is much, much lower than the EU5 limit.

 

It's debated what exactly the difference between the CR140 and CR170 engine is but at the very least they appear to use different turbos.

 

John

Re eu emmission limits v u.s.

If they were double it would still be way off by 10 to 20 times

EU has a problem too I'd be thinking otherwise why would the 'green' members of Europe have accepted their 'dirty' world as being ok gov?

[JohnMcL7]

Re eu emmission limits v u.s.

If they were double it would still be way off by 10 to 20 times

EU has a problem too I'd be thinking otherwise why would the 'green' members of Europe have accepted their 'dirty' world as being ok gov?

 

Yes but other diesel cars in the EU are also way off the EU limit as well yet were somehow able to pass the emissions tests for their EU class.  In the US, the only diesels that passed the emissions tests without cheating were using adblue systems but in the EU, many other similar diesels passed the EU certification within the limits despite being far over it in real world testing.

 

John

[Ryeman]

What are they going to do come round and seize it for compulsory remap?

From a govt perspective in Australia frinstance

Annual State registration process could be subject to the VIN being ticked off as complying with the relevant clean air act.

In other words not able to be reregistered until the recall has been completed.

For Govt that's a significant issue to resolve ...........they're in a bind also.

[Ryeman]

I had to smile at that as well, I realise there's going to be a difference between real world and lab testing but the size of the difference is ridiculous.  While I'm sure the manufacturers aren't fitting cheat devices, there must be a lot of rule bending going on to get the emissions so low when testing.  I don't see why VW can't do the same with the recalled cars to get them recertified for their EU bands given rivals with similar technology also got through these tests.

 

John

I don't think anyone is arguing with the premise that real world emmissions are higher than the certification process ones.

It is simply that the only manufacturers (at this stage) to admit to cheating to get that specific readout, and thus certification, was VW.

There are NO cars that meet the emmissions standards once they have left the test cell ie in everyday driving.

The 'pragmatic' regulators have until now, accepted that reality.

BUT

The clock is ticking for the light urban diesel as we know it.

[Ryeman]

Yes but other diesel cars in the EU are also way off the EU limit as well yet were somehow able to pass the emissions tests for their EU class. In the US, the only diesels that passed the emissions tests without cheating were using adblue systems but in the EU, many other similar diesels passed the EU certification within the limits despite being far over it in real world testing.

John

I think you'll find that that matter of 'other vehicles' is simply down to govt regulators and their pragmatic approach that they can't fix everything if there is still to be a single surviving motor manufacturer.

It a losing battle and times running out for the 'light urban diesel' I suspect.

And

For the reciprocating engine as well ultimately .

Edited 2 October, 2015 by Ryeman

[JohnMcL7]

I don't think anyone is arguing with the premise that real world emmissions are higher than the certification process ones.

It is simply that the only manufacturers (at this stage) to admit to cheating to get that specific readout, and thus certification, was VW.

There are NO cars that meet the emmissions standards once they have left the test cell ie in everyday driving.

The 'pragmatic' regulators have until now, accepted that reality.

BUT

The clock is ticking for the light urban diesel as we know it.

 

Not really though, the problem isn't a slight difference between testing and reality with VW way higher (as a lot of people seem to think) - many manufacturers are massively over the limit in the real world and VW isn't even the worst for it.

 

John