Technical interlude number three  You know this all started with the introduction of the diesel particulate filter (DPF). The health issues regarding large particulates were not that clear. The DPF introduced increased exhaust temperatures, which created very fine particles, and more NOx. So in effect, legislation caused the problem in the first place.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what the actual fix will be come October the 7th. In the meantime, I need to pop out and buy more popcorn, I'll go out on the mountain bike to keep lol-lol happy :p  

Power and torque as advertised was never achievable without the test cheat to mask the emmissions problem with THAT engine.

A simple software 'tweak' won't be able to achieve the retention of both or either.........without a newer engine series.

That's why VW are in one hell of a bind

Customers with legal advise on one side.........................govt regulators on the other.

 

Not quite, if anything the advertised power and torque may not have been achievable whilst meeting EPA emission regulations during the EPA test when using a EA189 based engine. As we don't know what the cheat does (aside from lower NOx emissions during the EPA test) we can't be sure that power or torque did change as it may only affected MPG or some other factor.

 

This is why VAG are in one hell of a bind in the US.

VW got caught. But most other brands emit far higher nox in real life driving. Hybrid battery production causes far more damage to the environment than any other car type. At the end of the day, if you drive you will cause pollution .

When the press get bored of VW bashing I'm sure they will move into another marque.

Power and torque as advertised was never achievable without the test cheat to mask the emmissions problem with THAT engine.

 

It looks like it wasn't achievable to meet the Californian standards, but it might be for the UK and Euro 5.

It's still to early to say that this will definitely affect power or economy in Europe, and there will be different answers for different models of car.

 

It's obviously a cause for concern, but not panic.

Technical interlude number three  You know this all started with the introduction of the diesel particulate filter (DPF). The health issues regarding large particulates were not that clear. The DPF introduced increased exhaust temperatures, which created very fine particles, and more NOx. So in effect, legislation caused the problem in the first place.

 

 

So would my good old Citroen ZX TD (long since gone to the car graveyard)  have emitted less NOx than the newer models with fancier tech?  (Whilst still sending out smoke and goodness knows what else of course.)

On the overall diesel vs petrol debate, I seem to remember that for a given amount of crude oil, you naturally get a certain proportion of diesel and a certain proportion of petrol? And those proportions aren't easy to change very far.  So if noone used diesel you'd effectively be wasting an energy resource,

So Zac Goldsmith is the Conservative London Mayor candidate. 

A former editor of the Ecologist and a firm fan of growing the Ultra Low Emission Zone in London.  Just said now on BBC also that he want to see electric cars being the main vehicles on the roads by 2018 rather than 2020.

 

 

http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2428672/goldsmith-confirmed-as-conservative-london-mayoral-candidate

 

The MP and environmentalist Zac Goldsmith has fended off opposition in the Conservative Party to be selected as the 2016 London Mayoral candidate.   The millionaire MP for Richmond Park and North Kingston, who is a fierce opponent of airport expansion in the south east, was the favourite for the nomination, beating London Assembly Member Andrew Boff and Syed Kamall MEP in the race.

FURTHER READING

• TUC urges government to back green growth and save White Rose CCS projects
• VW suspends sales of thousands of UK vehicles, as industry begins fight-back

London's deputy mayor for crime and policing Stephen Greenhalgh was also in the running.   Like the current mayor, Boris Johnson, Goldsmith is known as an independent-minded MP, and has spoken out against government plans to roll back support for renewable energy, telling BusinessGreen last month that he was concerned about the recent flurry of policy announcements such as cuts to the feed-in tariff scheme and the scrapping of the "zero carbon" standard for new homes. He argued government should "accelerate not reduce incentives" for clean technology.      The former Ecologist editor has said his policy priorities would include growing public transport and "promoting a healthier living environment for London families". He has called for a "revolution" in electric vehicles both in the private and public sector, in order to tackle London's pollution problem.

So would my good old Citroen ZX TD (long since gone to the car graveyard)  have emitted less NOx than the newer models with fancier tech?  (Whilst still sending out smoke and goodness knows what else of course.)

On the overall diesel vs petrol debate, I seem to remember that for a given amount of crude oil, you naturally get a certain proportion of diesel and a certain proportion of petrol? And those proportions aren't easy to change very far.  So if noone used diesel you'd effectively be wasting an energy resource,

 

Not wasted just used in more in the countryside and ships at sea where it is less of an issue with the NO and PMs in high population areas.

 

A coleague of mine has a Toureg with the V6 diesel, are they all OK then?

Just watch this dyno Jetta:

 

If VAG therefore put the emission complaint map in to replace the current road mapping you still can get just about the same HP and same torque but you end up with a 10-15% drop in power and torque in the mid range.  Entirely expected in the map for emission testing and the map for driveability.

re Video on post #1410

 

Seeing as they were checking power on the Dyno and not Smog Testing,

when testing the Front Wheel Drive only on the Dyno with the DSG, it would have been good to have tested having

left Traction Control on then to have tested after having switched off the Traction Control as a Driver can when on the road, to stop the ECU cutting Power / Drive, as they do on the road with a DSG and wheel spin is detected.

If I'm correct... When you drive a diesel car you using low and mid renge rpms... where was down about... (check 5:20 in video)

Just had a thought about this and this may have already been mentioned.

What would have happened to the cars if the cheat software failed to activate during the MOT or whatever the equivalent test are in other countries. Could you be left paying repairs for a car that potentially is un-repairable.  

So would my good old Citroen ZX TD (long since gone to the car graveyard)  have emitted less NOx than the newer models with fancier tech?  (Whilst still sending out smoke and goodness knows what else of course.)

On the overall diesel vs petrol debate, I seem to remember that for a given amount of crude oil, you naturally get a certain proportion of diesel and a certain proportion of petrol? And those proportions aren't easy to change very far.  So if noone used diesel you'd effectively be wasting an energy resource,

 

Officially nox limits should have been dropping in line with tighter EU requirements but the reality seems to be different:

 

http://www.hybridcars.com/will-america-avoid-europes-clean-diesel-problems/

 

Given the increasing number of articles showing a large number of vehicles failing to meet the EU specified limits, the data in the bar graph isn't hard to believe.

 

John

Technical interlude number three  You know this all started with the introduction of the diesel particulate filter (DPF). The health issues regarding large particulates were not that clear. The DPF introduced increased exhaust temperatures, which created very fine particles, and more NOx. So in effect, legislation caused the problem in the first place.

 

 

Absolutely...

 

I've said it before but it's a rather perverse irony that the increase in dangerous particulates with the highest carcinogenic properties (ie those much smaller than PM10), and the issue over NOx emissions is a direct result of the ever tightening emmissions legislation and efficiency requirements.

 

The latter have driven manufacturers to ever higher Diesel injection pressures, with more precise control systems to meet the legislation and this results in a finer mist of Diesel being injected into the cylinder with a more precise burn, which in-turn leads to finer particulates.  Couple that with the drive for efficiency, higher compression ratios and higher operating temperatures and DPF regenerations etc. and you also get higher NOx emissions.

 

It is a viscous, no-win circle led by legislation that in some cases is scientifically uninformed or, at the least has been prompted by the need for a 'quick fix' (a typical example being the petrol catalyst as opposed to lean burn approach mentioned earlier).

Hybrid battery production causes far more damage to the environment than any other car type. At the end of the day, if you drive you will cause pollution .

 

True - but those promoting hybrid or electric seem to conveniently forget this and focus on the lack of pollution at point of use rather than the holistic whole-life picture.

So would my good old Citroen ZX TD (long since gone to the car graveyard)  have emitted less NOx than the newer models with fancier tech?  (Whilst still sending out smoke and goodness knows what else of course.)

 

 

Probably - yes - and the particulates it did emit would have been far less damaging to human health than those of modern engines because they would have been larger and less easily ingested / absorbed by the body.

So Zac Goldsmith is the Conservative London Mayor candidate. 

A former editor of the Ecologist and a firm fan of growing the Ultra Low Emission Zone in London.  Just said now on BBC also that he want to see electric cars being the main vehicles on the roads by 2018 rather than 2020.

 

 

http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2428672/goldsmith-confirmed-as-conservative-london-mayoral-candidate

 

The MP and environmentalist Zac Goldsmith has fended off opposition in the Conservative Party to be selected as the 2016 London Mayoral candidate.   The millionaire MP for Richmond Park and North Kingston, who is a fierce opponent of airport expansion in the south east, was the favourite for the nomination, beating London Assembly Member Andrew Boff and Syed Kamall MEP in the race.

FURTHER READING

• TUC urges government to back green growth and save White Rose CCS projects
• VW suspends sales of thousands of UK vehicles, as industry begins fight-back

London's deputy mayor for crime and policing Stephen Greenhalgh was also in the running.   Like the current mayor, Boris Johnson, Goldsmith is known as an independent-minded MP, and has spoken out against government plans to roll back support for renewable energy, telling BusinessGreen last month that he was concerned about the recent flurry of policy announcements such as cuts to the feed-in tariff scheme and the scrapping of the "zero carbon" standard for new homes. He argued government should "accelerate not reduce incentives" for clean technology.      The former Ecologist editor has said his policy priorities would include growing public transport and "promoting a healthier living environment for London families". He has called for a "revolution" in electric vehicles both in the private and public sector, in order to tackle London's pollution problem.

 

I guess Mr Zac Goldsmith is not living in the real world then - electric cars the main vehicles on the road by 2018 - he's in cloud cuckoo land with that...

Hybrid battery production causes far more damage to the environment than any other car type.

 

Or, in fact, not.  http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/does-hybrid-car-production-waste-offset-hybrid-benefits2.htm

 

Amazing how you can tell a person's political and environmental views on any given subject regardless of facts or events.  We frame the world around us according to what we happen to believe.

Facts or events sometimes come out to show the general public were lied to or cheated,

hence this thread.

 

Governments and Government Agencies and Research Institutions compliant in the deceit often.

Who can you trust to not have any possible personal gain from the results of tests and testing?

 

The German, French & British Governments are just going with the flow right now,

'lets not upset the Volkswagen Group too much or all sorts of lies are going to come out'.

How can we get out of this without being shown to have allowed the Green Credentials of the Company 

and our Governments actions to be totally trashed?

 

Russia & America both bombing Syria with Environmentally friendly bombs is not even enough 

to convince people that it is not all about the Oil.

We had to pull several fuses to get a representative and realistic reading, when I had my cr170 on the dyno. Power was way down on the initial runs.

So emissions cheat software at work, perhaps?

We had to pull several fuses to get a representative and realistic reading, when I had my cr170 on the dyno. Power was way down on the initial runs.

So emissions cheat software at work, perhaps?

Hmmm, I speculated about that way back on page 22. 

Just called in at the dealers and the Service Department Manager put my Reg Number into there system and up came my VIN/Chassie number and my car is NOT affected with the US Cheat scandal. He showed me a list and MKIII Octavia's or MKIII Superbs are not affected.

 

 

Ring your Dealer/Service Dept and ask them to check your Reg Number for conformation 

 

 

 

Disclaimer: " So the Service Department Told Me "

 

 

Benfield Motor Group is now owned by Lookers 

 

We had to pull several fuses to get a representative and realistic reading, when I had my cr170 on the dyno. Power was way down on the initial runs.

So emissions cheat software at work, perhaps?

 

What are these fuses? Hidden gems of performance pray tell there location so I can get them out and free the horses.

<SNIP>

Russia & America both bombing Syria with Environmentally friendly bombs is not even enough to convince people that it is not all about the Oil.

WHAT?

 

Are VW involved in the alleged fight against the Islamic State as well? Tut, tut, where will this scandal end?

WHAT?

 

Are VW involved in the alleged fight against the Islamic State as well? Tut, tut, where will this scandal end?

 

Yes Islamic state is actually an SS panzer division sent by Merkel to deflect attention away from VW.