what makes me laugh about all this malarkey is that it broke from the US of A; a country that point blankly refused to sign up to the Kyoto Agreement for years and only did (eventually IIRC) with stiff opposition from both houses and is still one of the worlds biggest polluters

 

Anyone rollin' coal or drive an F150,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,?

 

Pot/ kettle,,,,,

 

No, it broke out in Europe where it was almost completely ignored as were other reports about European cars hugely exceeding their tested limits.  Bearing in mind the air quality issues London and Paris are having, I don't see anything laughable about us relying on California (who set the limits for the EPA and influenced EU limits) particularly when they've made a lot of good moves on emissions for cars, heavy duty vehicles and power plants.  

 

John

No, it broke out in Europe where it was almost completely ignored as were other reports about European cars hugely exceeding their tested limits.  Bearing in mind the air quality issues London and Paris are having, I don't see anything laughable about us relying on California (who set the limits for the EPA and influenced EU limits) particularly when they've made a lot of good moves on emissions for cars, heavy duty vehicles and power plants.  

 

John

I type sat corrected, I thought it broke after a California test and subsequent investigation. My bad.

One word that is missing from your text above that is key ab out the cars and that is.........

v

v

v

Diesel

 

Worth putting some of the text for those who do not use the link...............

 

Volkswagen emissions scandal: More carmakers implicated as tests reveal pollution levels of popular diesels

 

Massive levels of pollution are being emitted by diesel vehicles built by a wide range of carmakers, according to tests carried out by one of the world’s biggest independent motoring organisations......

Consumers will be alarmed that many popular models are involved although, unlike VW, there is no suggestion that any of the other manufacturers have employed devices to cheat the testing regime. .....   

All diesel car manufacturers have managed to meet this requirement.  However, it is widely accepted that the “real-world” NOx emissions of diesel passenger cars are substantially higher than the certified limit.

================================================================================

 

I would be happy to see petrol cars compared under similar test but, due to their lower cylinder temperatures and pressures I feel certain we will not see the huge differences in lab to real world emissions.  Look forward to seeing these sorts of test results on petrol, petrol-hybrids.  It is sad it has taken so long to expose this.

What a none story.

A none story that had to get on the diesel bandwagon by only mentioning diesels.

Cars give out larger amounts of gases etc when driven in the real world. Wow, no **** sherlock. Even i could have told you that. They even admit there is no evidence to suggest cheats have been used. So what is the point in the story? Oh wait, they obviously dislike diesels.

 

Allow me to rewrite their story for them.

 

"In the past we have found that cars emit more gases when driven in the real world, compared to when they are tested under strict testing conditions. This is, to be honest, extremely obvious, and isnt really a story. However, due to the VW emissions scandal, and our hatred of diesels, we thought it a perfect opportunity to mention our findings. As is quite obvious, it affects all cars, petrols and diesels. However we will only mention diesels as it allows us to get on the anti diesel bandwagon, and talk a load of rubbish about diesels. Obviously manufacturers could sue us if we get involved in any unfair slander, so we will make it clear that there is no evidence to suggest any other manufacturers have been using cheat devices. Thankfully diesel engines are unable to sue us for slander, so we are able to go round spouting unfair rubbish about them.

I know this in itself is a stupid story, and our organisation is obviously a load of c**p, but hopefully you will allow us to make obvious our hatred of diesels by putting in a sensationalist headline.

Please lookout for our next anti diesel story in the coming days."

A lot of the 'thought police' seam to be berating people for getting upset with the Car Manufacturers as if they should be above the law / beyond reproach and because its 'a car' then you should be happy with your lot and normal rules of trading do not apply to a car. The same people are even getting mad at the ' blood sucking lawyers'. Now i don't have a dog in this fight (mine is EUR6) but i do have sympathy for those who seam a little annoyed with being deceived and now stuck with a car that's going to be as easy to sell as flogging sand to an Arab.

Lets for a minute compare what VW have done to another product sector. Lets for instance take a favorite company that in most eyes can do no wrong 'Apple'. Lets for arguments sake assume you have a new iMac and its been manufactured to comply with A Euro-standard Energy consumption level and can only use 'X' ma of electric current. Suddenly you hear that apple have been a bit naughty and the PC knows when its being tested and goes into a power-saving mode which fools the test. However in normal use the Imac uses 40x the amount of electricity. Rumor has it that Apple Want to recall said Imac's and turn the Clock speed down on the processor to comply with the energy usage. Ask yourself would you not be a little worried? and looking at an alternative computer? Why is it any different with a car dealers? If the car is in anyway inferior after the fix take it back and demand compensation your consumer rights have been infringed.

 

A lot of the 'thought police' seam to be berating people for getting upset with the Car Manufacturers as if they should be above the law / beyond reproach and because its 'a car' then you should be happy with your lot and normal rules of trading do not apply to a car. The same people are even getting mad at the ' blood sucking lawyers'. Now i don't have a dog in this fight (mine is EUR6) but i do have sympathy for those who seam a little annoyed with being deceived and now stuck with a car that's going to be as easy to sell as flogging sand to an Arab.

Lets for a minute compare what VW have done to another product sector. Lets for instance take a favorite company that in most eyes can do no wrong 'Apple'. Lets for arguments sake assume you have a new iMac and its been manufactured to comply with A Euro-standard Energy consumption level and can only use 'X' ma of electric current. Suddenly you hear that apple have been a bit naughty and the PC knows when its being tested and goes into a power-saving mode which fools the test. However in normal use the Imac uses 40x the amount of electricity. Rumor has it that Apple Want to recall said Imac's and turn the Clock speed down on the processor to comply with the energy usage. Ask yourself would you not be a little worried? and looking at an alternative computer? Why is it any different with a car dealers? If the car is in anyway inferior after the fix take it back and demand compensation your consumer rights have been infringed.

 

Scribbler, I most important word in there is 'rumour'.

 

I wholly agree that if fix is produced that negatively affects performance, MPG or value then that's the point to get worried and annoyed. Until that point it's just unnecessary stress due to over hyped news stories!

What's the betting that they Remap/Chip the engine and then apply the correct emission software.

 

Car should end up the same or better.

 

Probably what they did to achieve Euro 6 here in the first place.

Yesterday my vehicle was subject to recall, today it's not, I wonder what tomorrow will bring!

Well after over a week of this carfuffel I feel a bit let down that my yeti IS NOT down for a recall

What's the betting that they Remap/Chip the engine and then apply the correct emission software.

 

Car should end up the same or better.

 

Probably what they did to achieve Euro 6 here in the first place.

 

You know that is exactly my thoughts... 

 

I purchased a 170ps Superb.. VAG have cocked up.. I am 100% behind them and believe that any solution will fix my car and I will have a 170ps Superb afterwards..  If they have to fit anything that may decrease this, I am sure they will re-engineer the software to do as you say.. make sure I am happy.. 

 

Think about it... 

 

1. Have VAG said "this is what we are doing"? NO .. the press seem to know everything and how it will be fixed.. maybe they should work for VW.. 

2. In the last couple of weeks you may say that VW have ****ed off 11 million customers,and got more bad press than they could wish for... DO you really think that the will give you a car back in a worse state that "as it should be"? then **** off 11 million customers more, get more bad press? unless they are stupid I suspect not. Customers will go to other manufacturers... they will tell friends and family.."don't but that rubbish"  so in actual fact.. more than 11 million lost customers... 

 

Until VW say this is the solution... ignore the crap you are reading... the press know as much as we do, and so far as much as VW do.. NOTHING!

 

VW has said themselves the cheat software is on a lot of cars but never used or activated, it is dormant, doing nothing... which makes sense.. it stricter emissions countries it is used ,maybe in countries like the UK all we will do is take our cars in, mine included, have it re-flashed with software just excluding the cheat code, and away we go... 

 

I am now ignoring everything I read in the press and on the internet until I hear from Skoda.. but I am confident that we are all worried over what so far is just utter rubbish, relax, enjoy your car and forget it.. when it is your turn to take it to the dealer I am sure we will all think "**** .. what was all the fuss and worry about!!" 

In your world perhaps. My world is slightly different isofar as my car is exactly the same as it was a few weeks ago, and is likely to remain that way (irrespective of what "fix" VW come up with). I for one have no issues in either keeping my current car or buying a newer VAG group car.

I'm obviously referring to those who have regulatory power

Not fans

I bought my yeti 20l cr 3 weeks ago i might use the 30 day exchange and go for a 1.2 tsi petrol the dealer might not let me could find some sort of get out

I would expect the dealer would consult with VW AG and you might well be accommodated .

<SNIP> ... the press know as much as we do, and so far as much as VW do.. NOTHING! <SNIP>

 

What a depressing (and highly unlikely) thought.

what makes me laugh about all this malarkey is that it broke from the US of A; a country that point blankly refused to sign up to the Kyoto Agreement for years and only did (eventually IIRC) with stiff opposition from both houses and is still one of the worlds biggest polluters

 

Anyone rollin' coal or drive an F150,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,?

 

Pot/ kettle,,,,,

When it comes to vehicle emmissions , don't confuse California with the U.S. Congress.

A lot of the 'thought police' seam to be berating people for getting upset with the Car Manufacturers as if they should be above the law / beyond reproach and because its 'a car' then you should be happy with your lot and normal rules of trading do not apply to a car. The same people are even getting mad at the ' blood sucking lawyers'. Now i don't have a dog in this fight (mine is EUR6) but i do have sympathy for those who seam a little annoyed with being deceived and now stuck with a car that's going to be as easy to sell as flogging sand to an Arab.

Lets for a minute compare what VW have done to another product sector. Lets for instance take a favorite company that in most eyes can do no wrong 'Apple'. Lets for arguments sake assume you have a new iMac and its been manufactured to comply with A Euro-standard Energy consumption level and can only use 'X' ma of electric current. Suddenly you hear that apple have been a bit naughty and the PC knows when its being tested and goes into a power-saving mode which fools the test. However in normal use the Imac uses 40x the amount of electricity. Rumor has it that Apple Want to recall said Imac's and turn the Clock speed down on the processor to comply with the energy usage. Ask yourself would you not be a little worried? and looking at an alternative computer? Why is it any different with a car dealers? If the car is in anyway inferior after the fix take it back and demand compensation your consumer rights have been infringed.

Exactly!

As in shooting the messenger

Scribbler, I most important word in there is 'rumour'.

 

I wholly agree that if fix is produced that negatively affects performance, MPG or value then that's the point to get worried and annoyed. Until that point it's just unnecessary stress due to over hyped news stories!

What!

Since when did a grovelling apology after an embarrassing ADMISSION OF GUILT represent "overhyped news stories".

Former science minister Lord Drayson has admitted that the Labour government’s support for diesel cars was a mistake, and warned that diesels are “literally killing people”.(LINK)

Well done Sherlock, I wonder when you and your cronies knew that?

Scribbler, I most important word in there is 'rumour'.

I wholly agree that if fix is produced that negatively affects performance, MPG or value then that's the point to get worried and annoyed. Until that point it's just unnecessary stress due to over hyped news stories!

But your missing the point entirely they actively saught to deceive and nothing they will do will repair the damage to the brand or diesel cars generally. Lets say the fix is perfectly harmless whos going to beleive them? Some old enough to remember skoda jokes will know that the stigma lasted long after the brand was taken over by vw and they started to make great cars. Some still wouldnt touch a skoda although most now accept the cars a well made. There is absolutley no way this wont affect residual values if not kill off diesel for cars. Anyone remember the recall for audi tt mk1 they had to fit a spoiler because several ended upside down in ditches. Now I dont think there was much wrong with the car but I know loads wouldnt buy them even after the retro fix and this wasnt deliberate neglegnce or deception by audi.

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Tapatalk

What's the betting that they Remap/Chip the engine and then apply the correct emission software.

 

Car should end up the same or better.

 

If it was that easy to meet emissions standards and keep performance and economy with a software tweak that they can come up with in a few days, why would they have taken the risk of having cheat software in the first place?

How many new diesel car adds have you seen recently?

Are all the manufacturers still hiding under the table, not wanting to be noticed?

Lots of petrol car promoting adds instead?

How many new diesel car adds have you seen recently?

Are all the manufacturers still hiding under the table, not wanting to be noticed?

Lots of petrol car promoting adds instead?

On TV very few.

In print and show rooms it's all about the diesels high mpg v a sporty petrol.

OK, where is Ben @ Shark? He'd have this sorted within the week (and make a fortune out of it too!)

I've got a very easily removable 'box'

V happy!

What a none story.   A none story that had to get on the diesel bandwagon by only mentioning diesels.  Cars give out larger amounts of gases etc when driven in the real world. Wow, no **** sherlock. Even i could have told you that. They even admit there is no evidence to suggest cheats have been used. So what is the point in the story? Oh wait, they obviously dislike diesels.

Allow me to rewrite their story for them.  "In the past we have found that cars emit more gases when driven in the real world, compared to when they are tested under strict testing conditions. This is, to be honest, extremely obvious, and isnt really a story. However, due to the VW emissions scandal, and our hatred of diesels, we thought it a perfect opportunity to mention our findings. As is quite obvious, it affects all cars, petrols and diesels. However we will only mention diesels as it allows us to get on the anti diesel bandwagon, and talk a load of rubbish about diesels. Obviously manufacturers could sue us if we get involved in any unfair slander, so we will make it clear that there is no evidence to suggest any other manufacturers have been using cheat devices. Thankfully diesel engines are unable to sue us for slander, so we are able to go round spouting unfair rubbish about them.

I know this in itself is a stupid story, and our organisation is obviously a load of c**p, but hopefully you will allow us to make obvious our hatred of diesels by putting in a sensationalist headline.

Please lookout for our next anti diesel story in the coming days."

 

I think you have missed the point of the article in that it is the apparent facts emerging that diesels, whether with defeat/cheat devices or not, are passing the current emissions test but actually polluting and 10-40 times more than the level we set as the safe level we want.  The articles, whilst no doubt to sell newspaper, some of us want to promote different buying patterns to result in better choice for those cars that appear to, with the current out pouring of information, though I would like to see more than the diesel/petrol cold/warm Scandinavian study shown in a graph a few pages ago that nudge people to the petrol choice rather than the diesel one to reduce premature deaths from NO and PMs which some government figures show are responsible for the majority of emission linked deaths.

 

There is a price for choosing petrol over diesel ie generally more CO2/fuel, but that is weighed against apparently significantly less NO and PMs.    I think the article and the data produced could have been much better, would have like to have seen the 100 best selling diesels against the 100 top selling petrols compared at cold start and warm and even in warm ambient and cold ambient temperatures as the cold/cold combination seems to produce some of the worse results.  Ultimately we are going to end up with petrol-hybrid and them pure electric over the next 5-10 years.

 

Yep bring on more data for petrol cars, in addition to the Scandanavian one above,  so we can make the best comparisons.  Osborne, and even more so European finance ministers, will need to look at the excise and BIK tax system to slant towards encouraging good emissions behaviour though I do not expect GB to lead but at least France and Germany and across the EU etc should move to at least equity in Excise taxing on fuels as CO2 is no longer the emission of most concern but NO and PMs.    

On TV very few.

In print and show rooms it's all about the diesels high mpg v a sporty petrol.

I suspect NOx has never had much of a public profile

VW fixed that little problem big time

News at 10 said VW are recalling all the effected cars to fit new software FOC with a predicted cost of over £4 billion

The figure of £4 billion I would say is a false figure floated by V A G to try to say they are really getting to grips with this deceit whereas if they think by merely replacing the software will be acceptable they should have another think. 4 billion seems an awful lot just to change software and what effect will that have. One thing will of course give a true reading during M O T tests and which presumably will have a drastic effect on the amount of the R F Licence cost. I chose my car because of the supposed mpg and cost of R F L, so if that rises, I will look to V A G for compensation and if the value of my car is reduced now the deceit has come to light they can cough up towards that? Let's be quite honest, V A G set out to deceive and got away with it for several years until some bright spark in California sussed them out. I bet there is some swearing and cursing in Wolfsburg in unprintable terms.

Apparently the NGO that found them out, was, ironically, using VW's 'clean diesel' push as an example of the latest diesel tech being able to resolve the NOx problem.

Oh dear!