It should be able to work quite well with the right tyre on top of snow.  If deep it can plough it.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

It should be able to work quite well with the right tyre on top of snow.  If deep it can plough it.

 

 

About as challenging as driving on the wet lawn.  Minimal ground clearance by the look of it.

Second hand EV choices and decisions -

 

9 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Second hand EV choices and decisions -

 

 

 

a colleague of mine bought a 2 year old zoe for £5,600. £50 a month battery rental and zero tax  / fuel costs (for now at least). He's delighted with it and is slowly exploring the limits of range in such a small battery. He made it down from Perth to Livingston for lunch with me, fuelled it up while we ate and then drove back again. 

46 minutes ago, domhnall said:

zero tax  / fuel costs (for now at least).

Surely someone is paying for the electricity to recharge the batteries, so zero fuel cost isn't accurate.

 

Where does he charge it up? If at home then he's paying for the electricity, if at work or in a public place then someone else is paying it for him (lucky them!).

46 minutes ago, domhnall said:

 

 

a colleague of mine bought a 2 year old zoe for £5,600. £50 a month battery rental and zero tax  / fuel costs (for now at least). He's delighted with it and is slowly exploring the limits of range in such a small battery. He made it down from Perth to Livingston for lunch with me, fuelled it up while we ate and then drove back again. 

I can see second hand EVs being more desirable than the equivalent ICE cars.........and a form of subscription for the battery too.

7 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

Surely someone is paying for the electricity to recharge the batteries, so zero fuel cost isn't accurate.

 

Where does he charge it up? If at home then he's paying for the electricity, if at work or in a public place then someone else is paying it for him (lucky them!).

 

Chargeplace Scotland units are mainly free of charge, paid by the site owner

 

15 minutes ago, domhnall said:

Chargeplace Scotland units are mainly free of charge, paid by the site owner

So unless the owner is a retail site (or similar) and gets more trade as a result to offset against the extra electricity usage, what's the benefit for the site owner?

 

6 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

So unless the owner is a retail site (or similar) and gets more trade as a result to offset against the extra electricity usage, what's the benefit for the site owner?

 

 

well that's why most of them are in such places, or it is a council site and they get their air quality targets met

 

Everyone in the UK paying for Electric and Gas is paying for Free Charging, as are any Tax Payers in or not in the UK.

Just like they pay the Electricity Generators not to produce electricity when the demand is not there.

 

Every UK Tax Payer pays for Trains and Roads and public Transport even if that is pathetic in their areas.

same with Education, Health Services, Policing etc etc.

 

Every Tax Payer in the UK will be paying for cleaning up the Mines, the Nuclear Power Stations and the ill health of many generations due to pollution.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7sVf66TKjK8

Edited 21 January, 20197 yr by Skoffski

39 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

Surely someone is paying for the electricity to recharge the batteries, so zero fuel cost isn't accurate.

 

Where does he charge it up? If at home then he's paying for the electricity, if at work or in a public place then someone else is paying it for him (lucky them!).

https://www.renault.co.uk/renault-finance/battery-hire.html

£50 battery lease has <4500 miles annual allowance.

 

For reference, I have driven my Leaf just over 12k miles over my ~1.3 years ownership. Electricity used according to car telemetric: 3,059 kWh. I charge using E7 rates at 8p/kWh, but if we be pessimistic and use 10p/kWh, total cost to cover 12k miles is £305.87.

So to drive 4000 miles a year, if he had paid for all of his own electricity, it's only about £100 a year.

 

Electricity is cheap, electricity powering cars is efficient. Combine both means fuel cost is not a huge undertaking if can't charge for free.

agreed, even further North where electricity is more expensive it is still cheaper than petrol and diesel. I pay 15p/kWh though that will go up when my fixed deal ends in April. But so far in 6000 miles with the leaf I have only spent around £3 on charging as I mainly use the public chargers (usually at Bannatynes or when parking at the airport).

 

 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

https://www.renault.co.uk/renault-finance/battery-hire.html

£50 battery lease has <4500 miles annual allowance.

 

For reference, I have driven my Leaf just over 12k miles over my ~1.3 years ownership. Electricity used according to car telemetric: 3,059 kWh. I charge using E7 rates at 8p/kWh, but if we be pessimistic and use 10p/kWh, total cost to cover 12k miles is £305.87.

So to drive 4000 miles a year, if he had paid for all of his own electricity, it's only about £100 a year.

 

Electricity is cheap, electricity powering cars is efficient. Combine both means fuel cost is not a huge undertaking if can't charge for free.

That £50 battery charge is a lot. If electricity for 4500 miles is about £100, plus £600 battery lease. Compared to my Citigo doing 50mpg and average petrol price of £1.25 it will cost me about £511 (plus £20 tax). So not only are EVs more expensive to purchase, but on this model more expensive to run. Can anyone point out if there is a flaw in my maths?

10 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

That £50 battery charge is a lot. If electricity for 4500 miles is about £100, plus £600 battery lease. Compared to my Citigo doing 50mpg and average petrol price of £1.25 it will cost me about £511 (plus £20 tax). So not only are EVs more expensive to purchase, but on this model more expensive to run. Can anyone point out if there is a flaw in my maths?

 

Having a car that does less than 10k a year always very expensive ie about £1 a mile or even more often when all costs added in. 

Part of the reason we are trying to roll out hire EVs and eventually we will get autonomous cars that arrive when you need one.

 

Battery hire, for the Zoe etc, make only good sense when one is doing mega miles like i do.  £109  battery hire for unlimited miles ie 40k a year that I do, the pence per mile looks much more reasonable.  £1300 pa / 40,000 miles, 3p per mile battery hire, 3 p per mile lecky, nice.  

 

Waiting for the 50 kWh Zoe due out later this year with DC charging could convince me if BREXIT does not make EU made cars even more expensive, might be a LEAF 2 (62 kWh - 200 hp) then if Nissan struggle to sell their cars in Europe and have to dump on the UK market to keep the lines going.  Both nice cars but range on current LEAFs are too poor.      

14 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

That £50 battery charge is a lot. If electricity for 4500 miles is about £100, plus £600 battery lease. Compared to my Citigo doing 50mpg and average petrol price of £1.25 it will cost me about £511 (plus £20 tax). So not only are EVs more expensive to purchase, but on this model more expensive to run. Can anyone point out if there is a flaw in my maths?

No flaws in your maths or logic. The flaw is in Renault's battery lease program. It just doesn't make any sense for anyone except the first owner who are on finance.

 

That is why I bought a Leaf, no battery lease, drive as much as I want. The more miles I put on the Leaf, the more I'm saving.

 

EV are not really more expensive to buy, I bought my 3 yr old Leaf for £9140 from a main dealer. 3 year old similar sized car like a Golf/Focus will cost similar money. We were looking at Toyota hybrid like Auris/Yaris, and they'd cost more than a Leaf.

13 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

No flaws in your maths or logic. The flaw is in Renault's battery lease program. It just doesn't make any sense for anyone except the first owner who are on finance.

 

That is why I bought a Leaf, no battery lease, drive as much as I want. The more miles I put on the Leaf, the more I'm saving.

 

EV are not really more expensive to buy, I bought my 3 yr old Leaf for £9140 from a main dealer. 3 year old similar sized car like a Golf/Focus will cost similar money. We were looking at Toyota hybrid like Auris/Yaris, and they'd cost more than a Leaf.

 

EV = no London pollution charge.

Hybrid = pollution charge ?

 

 

18 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

No flaws in your maths or logic. The flaw is in Renault's battery lease program. It just doesn't make any sense for anyone except the first owner who are on finance.

 

That is why I bought a Leaf, no battery lease, drive as much as I want. The more miles I put on the Leaf, the more I'm saving.

 

EV are not really more expensive to buy, I bought my 3 yr old Leaf for £9140 from a main dealer. 3 year old similar sized car like a Golf/Focus will cost similar money. We were looking at Toyota hybrid like Auris/Yaris, and they'd cost more than a Leaf.

~This is why we have the Citigo and not a Zoe 

4 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

EV = no London pollution charge.

Hybrid = pollution charge ?

 

 

Believe it or not, London congestion charge is not an issue for the vast majority of us living in the UK.

8 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

Believe it or not, London congestion charge is not an issue for the vast majority of us living in the UK.

 

Not today but there are 44 cities due to join London in pollution charging so when goes to big cities to shop, because your High street has shut down in your small to medium side town, the pollution charging mechanism acts to stop internal combustion cars going in to cities but welcomes EVs with free electricity (like Oxford's free 50 EV charging spaces). Coming to a cityzone near you.....  

 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1FknFy129TX78sKfBy2NZnSYHc7A&amp;ll=57.28629325377432%2C0.7261735203126136&amp;z=5 

Fair enough. The two cities I'd be bothered about have no plans in place before 2020. I'm actively following the EV market as I would really like one (but not at the expense of my wallet or comfort) so we may well be sorted before that. But the economic argument for me is stopping a move to EV. 

3 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

Fair enough. The two cities I'd be bothered about have no plans in place before 2020. I'm actively following the EV market as I would really like one (but not at the expense of my wallet or comfort) so we may well be sorted before that. But the economic argument for me is stopping a move to EV. 

 

 

I bought a four month old leaf for about the same as a replacement Octavia. But since then I have spent zero on road tax and about £3 on fuel. Economics work for me but I prefer Skoda to Nissan any day. British build quality is rubbish

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

EV = no London pollution charge.

Hybrid = pollution charge ?

Personally, taxation wasn't a factor in our reason to go for EV.

 

Our reason was purely running costs, nothing beats a second hand EV for cheap running costs (at similar size/age, in our use-cases). I've worked out the best way to maximise savings from owning an EV, it is to use as much of the battery as possible every day, For my Leaf, that is my 60 miles daily commute. This maximises fuel savings while car depreciation cost is fixed. Over 1 month commuting in my EV, I could save over £100 in fuel cost, which pays for the EV itself.

 

 

41 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Personally, taxation wasn't a factor in our reason to go for EV.

 

Our reason was purely running costs, nothing beats a second hand EV for cheap running costs (at similar size/age, in our use-cases). I've worked out the best way to maximise savings from owning an EV, it is to use as much of the battery as possible every day, For my Leaf, that is my 60 miles daily commute. This maximises fuel savings while car depreciation cost is fixed. Over 1 month commuting in my EV, I could save over £100 in fuel cost, which pays for the EV itself.

 

 

 

41 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Personally, taxation wasn't a factor in our reason to go for EV.

 

Our reason was purely running costs, nothing beats a second hand EV for cheap running costs (at similar size/age, in our use-cases). I've worked out the best way to maximise savings from owning an EV, it is to use as much of the battery as possible every day, For my Leaf, that is my 60 miles daily commute. This maximises fuel savings while car depreciation cost is fixed. Over 1 month commuting in my EV, I could save over £100 in fuel cost, which pays for the EV itself.

 

And not contributing to the 10,000 pre death in London !

My car not so good and I got to go to London tomorrow so I apologies now.  My Octy not so bad as many though....

https://carfueldata.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/downloads/download.aspx?rg=sept2018

 

Description	CO2 g/km	Fuel Cost 12000 Miles	Emissions CO [mg/km]	THC Emissions [mg/km]	Emissions NOx [mg/km]
1.4 TSI 150PS 7speed DSG SE, SE L	114	1127	304	59	31

agreed, for me the tax is around £10 a month saving but I used to be shelling out about £70 a month on petrol so I am saving that, plus you still get paid 45p a mile when travelling for work so it is costing in nicely. WHen they eventually introduce charges for using public charge points then I will still be able to top up using my solar panels. 

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

the pollution charging mechanism acts to stop internal combustion cars going in to cities

Hint - Unless you live in Larndarn there is no need to drive into a city centre to shop.