@HappySkoda - Or, in plain language, YES! Well, that's your problem, since those data are totally discredited and anything from 10 to 30% better than real world driving achieves.

28 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

@HappySkoda - Or, in plain language, YES! Well, that's your problem, since those data are totally discredited and anything from 10 to 30% better than real world driving achieves.

 

600km range on 42l fuel tank amounts to 7l/100km - that's nothing unreal, I had average consumption on tank between 5,8-6,2, depending on driving style... With 5,3 record on a 150km trip (with a fully loaded Estate). I never got beyond 7l

Edited 5 November, 20214 yr by Papez

18 hours ago, HappySkoda said:

but still far enough from range of 600+km that i have see at many sites with technical details and data. 1.3 50kw mpi 2000'. What is an average km range of???

 

Don't rely 100% on the charts even the capacity of the tank isn't exactly 42 litres.

Every gas station has different inclination, different employee with diferent attitude so there is no quarantee that every time you fill it up your tank has the same amount of gasoline inside.

The traffic simoulation on the factory tests has nothing to do with the tough reality of the town traffic especially on a hot day.

A guy wich has his Felicia from town A to B via highway has not the same fuel consumption with a guy which travels from one suburb to another in a big city. and a guy which lives in the mountain with heavy winter has not the same fuel consumption with one which lives in a island.

 

Don't make comparisons especially with drivers from other countries because there are many parametres (different asphalt, wind, gasoline quality, temperature, different road design etc).

Edited 5 November, 20214 yr by D.FYLAKTOS

On 05/11/2021 at 02:07, HappySkoda said:

https://youtu.be/ap2tfupj2Po

It runs felicia like

On 05/11/2021 at 01:52, HappySkoda said:

I will upload a video with the engine idling

 

Sounds very good to me.

(don't open the oil cap while the motor is running).

😁

Just curious, in the video, what's all the hissing like a snake on heat and is that oil cap and what's beneath standard?

 

Edited 8 November, 20214 yr by nta16

HappySkoda, do not believe all you read and always consider that all databases can have errors and omissions, you need to cross reference any information you get with as many other reliable sources that you can.  Errors are often copied from one database to the next and additional errors and omission can be introduced at these stages too. Manufacturers and other companies often have errors in their publications which do not get corrected.

 

For videos (and photos most often) you will literally get more in them (and the frame) if you hold the phone on its side (landscape instead of portrait).

 

HTH.

 

 

Edited 8 November, 20214 yr by nta16

On 05/11/2021 at 18:14, D.FYLAKTOS said:

there are many parametres (different asphalt, wind, gasoline quality, temperature, different road design etc).

Add in the overall condition of the vehicle, at the start of this thread Romanyshawky put that he had cleaned all the parts with car cleaner yet then puts up a photo where the throttle spindles and discs are still very contaminated, untouched.

 

9 hours ago, nta16 said:

Just curious, in the video, what's all the hissing like a snake on heat

 

and is that oil cap and what's beneath standard?

 

 

Which second of the video is this?

47 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

Which second of the video is this?

Sorry I meant this video all the way through but on second listen it's probably just noise from the microphone and recording. -https://youtu.be/ap2tfupj2Po

 

13 hours ago, nta16 said:

Manufacturers and other companies often have errors in their publications which do not get corrected.

 

 

You are right, the TC-6 is the solution but as an aftermarket is very expensive.

Too late for many databases as the errors go back decades and have become so embedded, intricated and copied and included in other combined and extended databases and there are just so many copies of the faulty databases so widely spread.  Computers and the internet have speed up and exasperated the errors and contributed to them and spread them so far and wide that if one database is corrected there could still be thousands or millions of uncorrected copies here, there and everywhere.

 

Same as in the past sometimes it can work to some people's benefit, example the same part can have two or more part numbers, availability and retail price so the same part for an expensive item could be bought using the less expensive item part number as it's just a matter of labelling.

 

On the other side history is rewritten as misinformation and errors are taken as fact and the genuine fact is lost in the mist of time - of course this doesn't really matter when it's only about car parts.

 

Why is the actual capacity of automotive fuel tanks bigger than nominal capacity?

“It seems like the fuel tank is filled up more than the rated capacity!!!” “It’s never been like that!!!”
Driver may have all experienced something like these. Especially when filling up the car, drivers sometimes doubt if the right amount of fuel is filled for these reasons. So it does when the amount of fuel remained and filled exceeds the capacity of a fuel tank officially indicated by automakers. However if the difference is merely 5~10 liters, this is natural. It’s because it was originally designed to be larger than the nominal capacity of a fuel tank specified in the user’s guide.

 

Therefore if the phenomenon above happens, do not panic and check the actual difference from the nominal capacity.

 

1. Nominal capacity of a fuel tank (nominal capacity)
① “Nominal capacity” is designed for passenger cars to drive *about 600 km at the speed of 80~100 km/hr on the motorways.
Nominal capacity varies depending on car models and an engine displacement because it is designed considering fuel efficiency and the weight of car body.
* About 600 km driving if it is converted into a distance on the assumption that a driver can drive 5~6 hours a day at the speed of 100 km without physical fatigue (on a basis of fueling once a day).
② It was designed with spare capacity to allow a driver to drive to the next highway service area* (the average distance between service areas is about 50~60 km) and it is about 10% of the capacity of a fuel tank.

 

2. Why is the actual capacity larger than the nominal capacity?
If the nominal capacity of a fuel tank is 65ℓ, the actual capacity is about 75ℓ. It’s because automobile manufacturers made the fuel tank by securing spare capacity corresponding to 10~15% of the nominal capacity1. The reason is as follows:

 

① It is intended to prevent VOC from being leaked in the event of volume expansion caused by an air temperature rise. If the fuel tank is filled up, the fuel is likely to overflow as the internal temperature rises to push up internal pressure.
② It is also intended to secure room for expansion to prevent the leakage of fuel when the car is parked on a slant after its fuel tank is filled up. This room is called “spare capacity for expansion.”

 

(Note) ¹ Maintain the reference amount of fueling LPG vehicles’ fuel tanks (85%)
LPG expands if its temperature in liquid state is raised. Therefore in case of filling the container with LPG, it is regulated to have the container’s temperature maintained below 40℃ to keep liquid LPG from exceeding 85% of container content (90% in case of a storage tank).

 

http://www.s-oil7.net/eng/knowledge/expert/view.jsp?seq=79

 

That's very interesting.

 

It wouldn't apply to older cars though as they had steel fuel tanks, in the UK the change to plastic tanks was sometime in the 1990s I think but can't remember exactly.  Or they may have been plastic lined as I remember a workmate running a company loan car so low on petrol it sucked the liner in we thought by the sound of it.

 

An ordinary driver/owner can't get extremely accurate mpg (l/km) for other reasons too so whatever method you use you just have to be very consistent with it  and accept it's only reasonably accurate.

 

Even with cars pre-1990s which were much easier to be more accurate with for mpg (l/km) most drivers didn't know how to do the method correctly so would get wide variations with some claiming higher figures than they actually got because they done it wrong.

 

On 09/11/2021 at 01:16, nta16 said:

Just curious, in the video, what's all the hissing like a snake on heat and is that oil cap and what's beneath standard?

 

Sorry but i dont understand what you mean. 

16 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Why is the actual capacity of automotive fuel tanks bigger than nominal capacity?

 

Wouldn't this mean that actual range should be better than listed? As 42l is a nominal capacity of Felicia tank.

15 hours ago, nta16 said:

It wouldn't apply to older cars though as they had steel fuel tanks, in the UK the change to plastic tanks was sometime in the 1990s I think but can't remember exactly. 

It applies to Favorit, too. They used plastic tank, because it allowed better use of volume under rear seats - it was shaped to fill all available space. Steel tank would allow only around 30l of capacity.

49 minutes ago, HappySkoda said:

Sorry but i dont understand what you mean. 

Sorry don't worry on second listen it's probably just noise from the microphone and recording.

 

30 minutes ago, Papez said:

It applies to Favorit, too. They used plastic tank, because it allowed better use of volume under rear seats - it was shaped to fill all available space. Steel tank would allow only around 30l of capacity.

Fair enough the Favorit we had new in the earlier 1990s was my wife's car and I can't even remember driving it, I'm sure I did but as with all her cars not that often as she's always using them.

 

One of the reasons I bought the particular model of my current car was that it would have a nominal extra 1 gallon UK (4.5 litres) capacity of the steel fuel tank over the previous nominal 6 gallons UK (27.3 litres) capacity but I found the fuel tank had been replaced and the capacity was only 5.83 gallons UK (25.5 litres).  I have to fill all the filler tube, sometimes to the back of the petrol cap if not hot weather, something you can do on a 1973 car, to get the 6 gallons (plus a bit more) and carry a 5 litre full petrol can in the boot to get a reasonable range on a driving tour.

 

I can literally brim fill the full tank and filler tube so know exactly that the tank is full if I want to do miles per gallon (litres) tests or checks then if I do the same after a run I can quite accurately work out the miles per gallon, assuming the petrol pump display is accurate, as my odometer is accurate.  I very, very rarely do this as I rarely drive that car for miles per gallon.

 

Edited 10 November, 20214 yr by nta16

46 minutes ago, Papez said:

 

Wouldn't this mean that actual range should be better than listed? As 42l is a nominal capacity of Felicia tank.

 

 

The article is not mine, i have the link at the end of it. 😉

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Sorry don't worry on second listen it's probably just noise from the microphone and recording.

 

Yes, i had my hand in front of the microphone, and the car was parked at a central road. So yes it has socondary noises

41 minutes ago, HappySkoda said:

Yes, i had my hand in front of the microphone, and the car was parked at a central road. So yes it has socondary noises

Makes sense as I was listening on headphones too.

 

It doesn't matter for this video but you really need a quiet location to do audio like this, unless an engine builder hears it as they can be so expert as to be able to sometimes diagnosis over just phone audio, this excludes me as I am not an expert in anything, or even mechanical.

 

On 05/11/2021 at 10:13, Papez said:

Try to accelerate with gas pedal in about 3/4 - it might sound wrong, but gasoline engines have highest efficiency with open throttle valve - so most efficient way to drive is heavy foot and get to highest gear as fast as possible. Using engine brake on downhills and coasting on straights also helps a lot. 

What is the most efficient way to climb hills?

 

Also do you have any tips for carburetor engines please?

For any engine you want to run in the highest bsfc. 

Therefore lowest pumping loses lowest frictional loses and 80% load. 

For carbs you can only do stuff when going downhill ie use as low rpm as possible. 

There are lots of basics on and about the vehicle when considering efficiency like have the whole car well serviced, maintained and repaired, having tyres with less rolling resistance with tyre pressures to suit.  The fashion for wide wheels with wide low profile tyres often adds to the rolling resistance of the car.  The weight of modern vehicles means more weight has to be pulled up the hill so you do not want additional unnecessary weight in the car, unused objects in the cabin or boot or deck (tools boxes, etc.).  Also you don't want items fitted that will increase the resistance to the vehicle getting through the air, bars, roof lights, luggage/tool box racks.

 

The most effective way to climb a hill is where possible take as much moment into the climb as possible and /or anticipant and select the correct gear for each stage appropriate to the vehicle, its load, road and weather conditions.  Anticipate and use the gears to maintain momentum and control of the vehicle.  If required you can miss a gear in the sequence, smooth gear changes always.

 

For carburettor, as generally, do not accelerate or brake harshly, lift off acceleration instead of or before braking.

 

28 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

For carbs you can only do stuff when going downhill ie use as low rpm as possible. 

I might be missing something (i often am, and do) but as someone who's been driving carb engined cars since the 1970s and has been driving carb'd cars off and on for the last 30 years as daily drivers including a twin carb car for the last 13 you've lost me.  Admittedly I've not been over concerned about efficiency otherwise I'd never had such cars but there have ben occasions when it has been needed or wanted.

 

I'm certainly not saying I know that much and don't need to learn and relearn what I've forgot or ignore.

 

Good general driving skills (and I'm not saying I have them) will help with a carb'd vehicle.

 

Driver training helps with efficiency - and after keeping the vehicle well serviced, maintained and repaired is the best tuning you can get for the vehicle and is transferable to other vehicles of the same type.