Emission remap

[Ootohere]

Any links please to these 'Real life conditions road tests of VW Group Vehicles with the defeat device'. 

Or just an idea where these can be found and who they were done by.

?

What does fare quite well mean,

is it that they put out less emissions than others or get better economy, or both?

 

The issue is that the 'Affected Engines' were found to be illegal in the USA and the European Countries decided as well that the VW Group has lied and cheated and are letting them do a Voluntary Recall to remove the defeat device.

 

If the 'Real world VW Group vehicles have good results then maybe the VW Group should be biging them selves up'.

Shout from the Roof Tops,  The vehicles in the scandal are better than other manufacturer vehicles that are not in the VW Dieselgate Scandal.

http://skoda.co.uk/pages/fuel-consumption/statement.aspx

 

PS

After the DEfeat Device Scandal & Euro 5 Emissions the VW Group have been caught up with 'Co2 Irregularities' with Euro 6 Emission Engine vehicles 

with Petrol & Diesel Engines and had to re-class some vehicles, ie change the Co2 g/km figures for the correct ones because of 'testing errors'., 

even buying back vehicles.

Edited 4 January, 2017 by Offski

[peterposh]

Good Afternoon,

Happy New Year.

Proposed Group Action

We have got good news. We are now in a position to commence legal action against Volkswagen AG, Audi AG, Skoda Auto a.s., SEAT S.A. and Volkswagen Financial Services (UK) Limited (jointly “VW”).

We’re alleging fraudulent behaviour (deceit) in respect of fitting your vehicles with the defeat device, cheating emissions tests and hoodwinking the UK authorities into allowing non-compliant vehicles to be sold to members of the public. We’re also seeking damages from any adverse effect of the ‘fix’ and in addition punitive damages. Punitive damages are damages intended to hold VW to account rather than just compensate vehicle owners and are only available in certain circumstances. 

In order to bring the claim in the most cost effective manner for you all, we’ve teamed up with another law firm, Harcus Sinclair, to sue VW and leading barristers have been instructed who are experts in their field; so we’re confident you’ll have the best possible legal team fighting your case. 

Finally we’ve applied to the court to ask that they make a Group Litigation Order so that this case can be managed as a Group Action.

How to become a claimant in the Group Action

Currently you’re not clients of Slater and Gordon or part of the Group Action. In order to become a client, and thereby officially part of the Group Action, you will need to register at www.vwemissionsaction.com.  This website also contains all the documents you’ll need to read before you can become a client and contains an FAQ section which will answer any questions you have.

You can join the Group Action even if you have sold the car; had the fix carried out; not had the fix carried out; own the car jointly or purchased via VW’s (and Audi / SEAT / Skoda’s) own financing service.

No win No Fee Arrangement

We’ve been very busy agreeing the terms of the funding for this claim and are pleased to confirm that we will run the claim on a ‘no win no fee’ basis. This is in conjunction with a Third Party Litigation Funder which importantly means you will only pay the funder if we win at trial or settle by negotiation. Just as importantly you will not pay the funder anything for our fees or those of our experts and barristers if we lose. We’ve also secured an indemnity from the funder for adverse costs so that you will not need to pay VW’s fees if the Group action loses.

In order to pay for this the funder will look for a deduction of around 30% from your compensation. This is to pay for (a) litigation funders investment; (b) our costs; © Harcus Sinclair’s costs; (d) counsels’ costs; (e) expert’s costs; (f) court fees. This means you will keep around 70% of your compensation.

Full details of the fee agreements you will need to review and agree can be found at www.vwemissionsaction.com.

Why should you sue VW?

Although we think the compensation per vehicle will be modest, we’re keen to highlight not only the fraud you’ve suffered, but also the damage to the environment your vehicles have unlawfully caused. We’re also determined to hold accountable a multinational corporate giant who has seen fit to lie and cheat its way to greater profitability at your expense.

What are the details of the claim?

The full legal claim which we’re proposing can be found in a document called the Generic Particulars of Claim which can be accessed at www.vwemissionsaction.com.

Committee

In order to keep costs low, we’ve set up a committee of five claimants who we’ll communicate with and take instructions from. The committee in turn will communicate with the claimant group as a whole. When you sign up you’ll be required to agree to the Joint Terms of Business of Slater and Gordon and Harcus Sinclair and to the Authority Document which will make the committee your agents to act on your behalf during the litigation. This is so that the claim can be managed as efficiently as possible and to reduce the cost of running the litigation.  Full details and an  in-depth explanation can be found at www.vwemissionsaction.com.

Next Steps

If you want to join the action and become an official part of the litigation, please sign up at www.vwemissionsaction.com as soon as possible.

If you have any questions, please do not email or call Slater and Gordon directly. Instead, we’ve set up a dedicated website with FAQs to help with your queries at www.vwemmissionsaction.com/faqs.

Once you’ve signed up and are a client, we’ll be in touch as to the next steps.

We wish you well for 2017.

Kind regards,

Jacqueline Young
Head of Group Litigation
Slater and Gordon

[TheRobinK]

Those Slater and Gordon bunnies are part of another firms class action ("consortium of law firms headed by Harcus Sinclair") and are looking for £3000 each (£2,100 for the owner, £900 for them...)

 

http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/news/150583/uk-volkswagen-owners-mount-dieselgate-lawsuit

[GabrielSyme]

@@Offski  @

 

Hi guys

 

Just wanted to say thanks for advising me to hold off with getting the dealer to "fix" my car.  In the end I cancelled my appt, saying I had heard credible reports about negative outcomes for the EA 189 engine, and they accepted this without question or comment.

 

I think there were some other who advised me too, but I cant remember who - but thanks to you all anyway!

 

Cheers guys.

[williamshatnerspants]

The litigation group want 30% of your compensation?!?!?!? I have no idea if this is normal practice, but it sounds like a lot to me. 

[Nathanio]

I'd like to know how they are going to demonstrate loss and to what extent. After all in the UK you need to show a quantifiable loss in the court to get compensation in these sorts of cases.

Personally I hope the suit fails; not to protect VW but because it just feels like a lot of people clammering for 'free' money rather than the actual issue they report to be offended by.

After all if it was to do about the environment rather than money, then they'd surely ask for their money to be used in someway to help the environment. Maybe rebuilt rain forests, help animals on the endangered list or even help deal a blow to AIDS or cancer.

The only people who win in these cases are the lawyers, they're the ones getting richer....

[peterposh]

they'll say the product was sold under deception/ not as described  , VAG are already paying out in the USA , they aren't here as we are too deferential and they are gambling nothing will happen " the drinks aren't on me "

[Ootohere]

People in the United States of America could not sell vehicles as they could not pass a Smog Test without the illegal Defeat Device functioning.

They produce too much NoX without the Defeat Device doing what VW had Bosch design it to do.

 

The EU Government Agencies were not giving a monkeys on NoX or Grey Areas and cheating in EU Type Approval or EU Euro 5 Emissions Testing 

but 'Defeat Devices' were illegal be that Hardware Components or Software.

 

The EU Commission can pretend to be upset at EU Member Governments but they were all there pre-2006 & from 2007 on and turning a blind eye, 

being deceived, or lied to or just incompetent.

 

Many EU Governments have money in the European Central or National Banks and other investments of public money that is in the VW Group and associated companies.

The confidence tricksters are in the VW Group but also in Politics and the Civil Services.

 

They all want this to go away.  Some need to be prosecuted and many that profited should be having personal wealth through dishonesty seized.

It is a crime in various countries that are being committed, White Collar Crime, Polo neck or Golf Shirt Collar Crime, White Coat Crime,  Board of Management 3 Monkeys Crimes.   Soap on a rope issue prison time would sort out some of them.

Edited 12 January, 2017 by Offski

[KenONeill]

The EU Commission can pretend to be upset at EU Member Governments but they were all there pre-2006 & from 2007 on and turning a blind eye, 

being deceived, or lied to or just incompetent.

 

Does EU type approval require the source code and data for an EMS to be audited?

[Ootohere]

Try google you might find the answer, but does it matter?

The last UK Transport Secretary in front of the Transport Select Committee said 'defeat devices' have been illegal since 1998,  (see video at 46 minutes)

After he has to look for the answer to the most obvious question and still does not say month or year, but then he is a politician, now a Lord & Chairperson of the Conservative Party, and been involved with TRansport & Industry since Maggie's days.)

VW say they did not do anything illegal fitting Defeat Devices after 2006....

 

As for the SMMT man, he knows nothing never seen anything, surprising he can be in the trade for 20 years and be deaf, dumb and blind.

VW UK Boss, not technical, MP's not Technical, Transport Secretary not Technical,

then in  2016 & VW did put up an Engineer for the Committee and he is now being charged in the US.  All 3 monkeys.

Edited 12 January, 2017 by Offski

[chimaera]

Does EU type approval require the source code and data for an EMS to be audited?

I suspect not at this point and the manufacturers undoubtedly would be clamouring to keep it that way - trade secrets, etc.

 

It would be a good solution to prevent things like this happening again. To go slightly off-topic, adding security auditing of all onboard ECUs that have communication with networks outside of the vehicle would be an excellent idea too.

[Nathanio]

they'll say the product was sold under deception/ not as described , VAG are already paying out in the USA , they aren't here as we are too deferential and they are gambling nothing will happen " the drinks aren't on me "

Deception how? The nox wasn't part of the deal for us.

They're paying out in the Us because they are in breach of the NOX rating as that's they're measurement scale. We're on CO2 in the EU.

Would you be happy then to pay the money from the lawsuit to an environmental concern, if it is about the environment concerns and not about the money.

[peterposh]

Have you a financial interest in VAG?

[Nathanio]

Have you a financial interest in VAG?

Not all. I don't have any shares or financial interest in any companies period.

I think they need to be taken to task on what they've done. But I don't think the lawsuit is doing anything other than lining pockets. If it was truly about the environment, the money could be put to projects that are trying to reverse humans effects.

If the lawsuit was more "we're suing VW to recover funds to send to NPOs to replant the rain forest, provide clean water, help endangered animals, fix oil spills etc" then I'd be totally onboard. Then it would be people caring about the environment. But it's not so I'm afraid I remain highly cyncial about the whole affair.

What is the $4b the US Govt is selling them going?

As someone on PH said, £3000 isn't going to shove all those emissions magically back up the tail pipes of their cars....

Edited 12 January, 2017 by Nathanio

[peterposh]

The only way you can take them to task is with money , that's all they'll listen to. They knowingly sold these with a cheat programmed in,

 

I've got 3 vehicles so 9k will come in handy ,

[Nathanio]

The only way you can take them to task is with money , that's all they'll listen to. They knowingly sold these with a cheat programmed in,

I've got 3 vehicles so 9k will come in handy ,

Disagree on that I'm afraid. The money could be put to good use in environmental projects.

So it is all about the 'free' money and not about the environment then? My point stands.

How did the cheat device actually cause you a loss though?

[Ootohere]

That is where the UK and other EU governments are supposed to protect their citizens because a EU government ie Germany and the other 27 members are those that allowed the conspiracy to be perpetrated by the VW group

. So now they need to hold VW to account and their own politicians and agencies. But they do not like washing their dirty washing in public.. The USA courts or justice system seem to have no problems charging senior employees with conspiracy to defraud so time will tell with Germany or other EU nations And courts

Italy being a case in point, and France, people in glass houses, then The UK, Spain, their politicians and governments are also all TOMMY.

[Ootohere]

That is where the UK and other EU governments are supposed to protect their citizens because a EU government ie Germany and the other 27 members are those that allowed the conspiracy to be perpetrated by the VW group

. So now they need to hold VW to account and their own politicians and agencies. But they do not like washing their dirty washing in public.. The USA courts or justice system seem to have no problems charging senior employees with conspiracy to defraud so time will tell with Germany or other EU nations And courts

Italy being a case in point, and France, people in glass houses, then The UK, Spain, their politicians and governments are also all TOMMY.

[peterposh]

The cheat device hasn't caused any loss, period. Until the cheat device was exposed, everyone was happy with the way their cars were running, and nobody knew any difference. Now, their cars are running just as good, but folks are cribbing because they feel they might lose out on a bit of power that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Totally agree with the sentiments here, this is descending into a frenzy of greed with folks simply expecting cash handed out on a platter.

 

There can only be one longterm outcome of this - the increase in prices of all VW products and services to pay for it all. Watch the cost of new vehicles and aftercare rocket in the coming months.......

 

Mike

VW have allocated 15 billion in the USA , do you think a paltry 3k will make any difference to the price of your car?

[peterposh]

If you're mug enough to tug your forelock up at the big house , go ahead and more fool you

[peterposh]

So you're  defending a company that knowingly fitted an emission defeat device on the grounds that it'll cost you a few quid more for your next car? 

[BJM]

So you're  defending a company that knowingly fitted an emission defeat device on the grounds that it'll cost you a few quid more for your next car? 

Nobody is defending the company.

 

There is no credible evidence that removing and overwriting  the "cheat" software has any significant effect on either the power output or the fuel consumption of the affected vehicles.

Similarly there does not atm appear to be any effect on the second hand market prices for the vehicle.

The law in this country requires claimants to show that they have suffered some pecuniary loss in order to be compensated.

 

The only people who appear to have been affected are those 40-odd thousand (pick whatever number you like, it's equally and randomly pulled out of the air) who may have had their health significantly effected to the theoretical point of earlier death by the NOx emissions.

 

So, if you are so concerned that VAG should be brought to task for their actions, surely it is these people who should receive compensation, not the vehicle owners who, until the story broke in the US and the ambulance chasing lawyers here saw the chance to make a few quid, didn't give a toss about what was coming out of their tailpipes as long as it didn't change their VED.

[peterposh]

A lot of people seem to be  deferential to VAG,

 

You can  bask in your warm sanctimonious glow while the  winners  have  holidays in the sun ;-)

[peterposh]

you do what you want , I'll do what I want, you can moan all you like, see you in court !

 

 

I can take added pleasure when I go on holiday that you're contributing to it ;-)

[Danny 57]

I always think it is sad that people prosecute when they have had no financial/physical or emotional loss as the Americans do at a drop of a hat. Yes they broke the law then that fine money should be spent righting that wrong, however that may be.

 

What would I do if they decide to "give" me X amount of money as a form of compensation (for what I have not suffered).......

 

Spend it on a holiday like most other people. :D

 

Which makes me no better, I know.