Emission remap

[CHoper5]

I've just had this as well.. scared my wife to bits!!

When I had the last one I called my local main dealer and they said just wait till it needs a service and have it done at that point.. no rush etc... that was b4 the offer of roadside with the new letter... am more tempted to do it now.. I wonder if the aa team they will send out will do as good a job as a dealer tho? Anyone had the aa do the fix?

Edited 12 December, 2016 by ChristianHoper

[drefaldwyn]

Another reminder letter received this morning, "We haven't seen you regarding the EA 189 NOx emissions service action required for your vehicle" it say's in big red letters. They are now offering me a visit from the VW group Roadside team at a location of my choice, home or work, to do the 60 min update. Apparently there have now been 265,000 vehicles updated.   

 

Me too! Straight in the bin!!

 

Dave

[Ootohere]

They either can do it or not do it, 'Doing it badly',  is a fail, and we know who fail most often and where their workshops are.

All the gear and some with little or no idea.

 

Someone out on the road doing 'The Fix', surely has the gear and the training.

 

As it is, the VW Group are now in panic mode as 'apparently' they have only 265,000 vehicles updated.

?

Where is this, UK, Europe or everyplace out of 11 million.?

[Pesmog]

Has anyone had a 1.6 done yet ?

[TheRobinK]

Pesmog, on 13 Dec 2016 - 11:46, said:

Has anyone had a 1.6 done yet ?

 

I haven't heard of anyone here yet, I've received no update. I know of no Irish 1.6 owner who has had a letter requesting appointment for the fix.

 

There was an online comment from somebody working in a VW dealership who said a few 1.6 engines have been done quietly. It sounded like they may have practiced on some lease returns.

[Ootohere]

Have the 2nd biggest car Manufacturing Group in the world managed to 'produce' enough plastic bits for the Hardware Part of the fix with the 1.6 TDI ?

A member has posted in the Fabia Section that a dealership employee told them it is a Software Update only,

just shows how VW Group Communications are as poor as the Communications that meant the Heads of VW, Skoda, Seat, Audi, Porsche 

never knew that they were in charge of lots of vehicles being build with Defeat Devices as a engine management feature.

 

Vorsprung Durch Technik.  Tell them very little and it will all get better as vw go 'Electric',

 We do Electric & H20 very well. Doh no we dont!

[Rayban]

If it was a remap before the New Software was put on it will need to be a Remap again quite likely, and that will be where some Remapper has checked out what the jackanory is with 'the fix'. 

Hi on a similar note ! ,been reading on this forum for quite a while now, as I was looking into getting a superb , But bought a vw cc, 170, I have been waiting for about a year now for the update !, had three letters saying the same as you guys  I have ,been to my vw dealer as I need it done so I can go else where and get my dpf and egr  removed and remap !, but I first need it off the register , I called into a well known franchise of tuners to discus my remap as my dpf is playing up after  only 40k mikes on my car !, grrr, he said my update would involve making the the dpf  come on more frequent  so it cleans more often to the advantage of them,  and the usual punter pays for it in the long run !, the dealership said I know more than they know ! , and to wait until vw tell me to proceed to the dealership !,

[Laurie61]

 

As it is, the VW Group are now in panic mode as 'apparently' they have only 265,000 vehicles updated.

?

Where is this, UK, Europe or everyplace out of 11 million.?

 

The letter does not specify an area just that 265,000 have been updated. There is now a hotline for those who have queries regarding the update or the impact on their vehicle. Sounds like they might be getting quite a lot of resistance to having the work carried out ? 

[Laurie61]

I have driven one car that's had the work carried out but it's not a superb. My brother runs a Leon 170 tdi and he decided to to take the car in for update. I had a drive in it a few weeks after and there were no obvious signs of problems, using third gear and from a rolling start with revs at tick over it accelerated away smoothly and without any flat spots or strange noises. As I don't drive it often it's hard to comment on overall noise levels but he says he can't feel/hear any difference.    

[Ootohere]

Lots of cars could do with 'The Latest VW Software / Engine Management' as some are not running great anyway.

 

Whats to be lost, if your car has too many Regens, and has EGR issues you might as well have the 'Fix',  get all the assurances from 

VW there will be no change in how it was.

 

Gives those that end up with a car running better than before the fix a reason to complain that the car runs better....

Edited 13 December, 2016 by Offski

[SkudMissile21]

I've had a third letter this week with the lovely red text too - AFTER having a phone call from the dealer I purchased from about a month ago where I told them I wasn't prepared to have it done and asked them to remove me from the recall list (which they said would be done).

Doesn't exactly do a lot to regain my trust if they can't even accept no for an answer!!!

I absolutely do not believe they can poop a miracle and magically get all these cars to comply with the emmissions levels (which are bloody ridiculously low anyway thanks to the american market) without having a detrimental effect on either bhp, torque, engine noise, ecomony, driveability or all of the above.

If that was all possible via a simple remap then everyone would have done it years ago, pull the other one - it has bells on it.......

Since I fully intend to have a "proper" (i.e more power and torque) remap done in march it would be a waste of time anyway! (maybe if they'd just made all of these engines 170bhp in the first place I wouldn't need to, 140bhp just isn't enough in a big car like this)

[psycholist]

I've got a second letter from Skoda Ireland asking me to bring the car in, which I will also ignore. The benefit of getting the 170 engine is that a remap will get this engine over 200 bhp . On my front wheel drive car it can be a job to get it to the road in the wet below 4th gear though, especially with winter tyres on. Suffice it to say I'm happy to live with this problem rather than the possibility of my engine running like crap and the certainty of it losing 30 bhp after the dealer has messed with it.

[chimaera]

I've had a third letter this week with the lovely red text too - AFTER having a phone call from the dealer I purchased from about a month ago where I told them I wasn't prepared to have it done and asked them to remove me from the recall list (which they said would be done).

Doesn't exactly do a lot to regain my trust if they can't even accept no for an answer!!!

I absolutely do not believe they can poop a miracle and magically get all these cars to comply with the emmissions levels (which are bloody ridiculously low anyway thanks to the american market) without having a detrimental effect on either bhp, torque, engine noise, ecomony, driveability or all of the above.

If that was all possible via a simple remap then everyone would have done it years ago, pull the other one - it has bells on it.......

Since I fully intend to have a "proper" (i.e more power and torque) remap done in march it would be a waste of time anyway! (maybe if they'd just made all of these engines 170bhp in the first place I wouldn't need to, 140bhp just isn't enough in a big car like this)

US emissions regulations are distinct from EU regulations and are a good deal stricter. That EU5 and EU6 are as strict as they probably has a lot to do with manufacturers tailoring their cars' tuning to run well on the test protocol and emit higher emissions on the road: air quality measurements are one of the main drivers for emissions regulations. When air quality is not improving enough, the solution is to apply tighter regulations. If the existing regulations had been properly followed 10 years ago, we probably wouldn't have EU6 as strict as it is. Even EU5 might have been less strict.

[Ootohere]

What is strict about EU6, the Current EU testing allowed Euro 6 vehicles on the road with 'Irregularities / Implausible Co2 figures, 

& the VW Group & other manufacturers have had to address that.

The EU Commission are talking about taking action against 7 EU Countries for lax actions and allowing the 'Cheating'. 

 

Those in the USA got a nice clear letter.

[chimaera]

What is strict about EU6, the Current EU testing allowed Euro 6 vehicles on the road with 'Irregularities / Implausible Co2 figures, 

& the VW Group & other manufacturers have had to address that.

The EU Commission are talking about taking action against 7 EU Countries for lax actions and allowing the 'Cheating'. 

 

Those in the USA got a nice clear letter.

 

The current scandal happened on EU5 standards not EU6 and was centered on NOx emissions. Given the scrutiny on vehicle emissions since this scandal broke, I'd be quite confident the EU6 cars are compliant: you can bet your ass people would have checked and found out by now if it were otherwise.

 

EU6 has tighter limits on NOx along with the pending introduction of a much stricter testing protocol for EU6c, including an on-road test.

You can't compare EU to US in terms of emissions standards or the approach to this issue. Different legal and regulatory environments. The entire reason for the buyback in the US is because a substantial number of TDIs sold there cannot be made compliant with US regulations without impacting economy or performance. In the EU due to the lower standards in place for the affected vehicles it's likely that they can meet the standards without affecting economy or performance. Potential effects on reliability or servicing costs are going to be difficult to measure, assuming they even exist. There are too many variables in the way people operate and maintain their vehicles, especially given how many owners like to second guess the manufacturers service schedule and procedures. You may not like that but it's the truth. Good luck trying to prove anything there.

 

Economy and performance are the objective values that the manufacturer is on the hook for in terms of obligation to regulatory bodies and the customer. NOTHING ELSE!!

 

In the US, VW were faced with an impossible choice: make the cars compliant with standards but reduce economy and performance (this would be perpetrating fraud against their customers since the car would end up not being what it was described as in the sales literature); leave the cars non-compliant (this would be against US law). This impossible choice is what drove VW to setting up the compensation/buyback programme.

 

In the EU, if they make the car compliant and it meets the original economy performance, as is quite likely to be the case, there is no fraud, no risk of litigation, no need for a compensation programme. END OF STORY! They have probably also worked out that the small number of cases where this may be an issue can probably be dealt with economically case-by-case.

[Ootohere]

The Defeat Device Scandal then rolled into the Co2 Irregularities Investigation.  Google that, and then maybe paste that up.

 

Euro 6 cars were not all compliant.

VW had to change VED Classes, and even buy back some cars earlier this year.  

'Co2 Irregularities turned into Implausible Co2 results,  Engines in VW's, Audi & Seat some Diesel Some Petrol like a 1.0 TSI & 1.4 TSI ACT. 

 

Germany, France & the UK Governments were there helping try to delay the Euro 7 Emissions introduction dates.

 

As to Testing, that is for Comparison purposes as in the Skoda Fuel Statement, not real world, and the Fix is to have them meeting this again supposedly.

Inside, Temperature Controlled Buildings on unrealistic drive cycles, nothing to do with real world driving a vehicle at Revenue Weight.

http://skoda.co.uk/pages/fuel-consumption-statement.aspx

 

.................

When VW do a press release on VW and numbers you have to check if that is just VW or VW Group and they missed 

the Audi & SEAT figures and in other releases they say, They will give their list of vehicles. As happened in November & December 2015.

These were Euro 6 emission cars on sale after September 2015, 2016 models.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-35051469

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-34712435

Edited 15 December, 2016 by Offski

[chimaera]

Euro 7 is a long way out and from what I've been able to find on it is likely to leave harmful emissions as they are in Euro 6c and refocus on lowering CO2. Even without defeat devices, manufacturers have been playing fast and loose with the CO2 aspect of the official tests for decades. The test protocol is not terribly onerous and it's easy enough to design a car to operate very well on it without notably reducing real world performance.

 

Either way, any discussion of CO2 irregularities in Europe is a completely separate issue to the 23R6 emissions remap: rolling the two together only serves to confuse both issues a lot.

[Ootohere]

Rolling the 2 together was exactly what the VW Group new Media people did in November.  Confusing the issue, diverting attention or attempting too.

Give out big numbers, spin on that then announce much lower, Investors and markets relax a bit.

 

VW drip dripped out a load of cr4p and the Motoring Media were happy to just not say to much.

It is in VW Scandal Thread 1 and 2 on this forum, and many articles and press releases might now have some how disappeared in a Google Search but the links are in threads on this forum.

 

There are many fan boys that believe in the honesty and truthfulness of the VW Group & Board and they have changed things and are rebuilding trust.

Only thing is, they keep getting found out and investigated more and more.

 

Euro 7 was not that long off, and like when Euro 5 was in, there were 5.5 engines, so there would be in a couple of years Manufacturers with 6.5 in preparation and R&D using customers.

 

All change now anyway, the UK is leaving the EU, major cities want to exclude diesels just after Euro 7 Emissions are scheduled to come in.

The USA were getting even tighter on Emissions Testing, but now The Donald (Trump) might say let them Roll Coal, who knows.

 

VW are talking lots on there EV's, yet they never got waterproofing vehicles sorted properly yet.

Lets see them get a proper demisting system in internal combustion engine vehicles in the next year then we will know 

they have some decent engineers employed after getting shot of the incompetents and yes men and women.

Edited 15 December, 2016 by Offski

[peterposh]

Please accept our apologies for the delay in providing this update. We acknowledge the many emails that we have received informing us of your various situations and experiences.  Although we cannot respond on an individual basis, your emails are being read and the information being considered.

Since our last update, we have been investigating the issues identified by the Transport Select Committee in its Third Report of Session 2016 – 17 entitled “Volkswagen emissions scandal and vehicle type approval”. While this has taken some time, we believe that we will be in a position to provide you with clear advice and recommendations in the near future.

As you know, VW maintains that the software does not amount to a defeat device in the EU (despite it doing so in the USA). Our position has always been that this is legally incorrect. We were therefore encouraged by a recent court ruling in Valladolid, Spain, that the software constitutes a defeat device in the EU. This is consistent with the German regulator’s (the KBA) findings. We understand that VW has applied for permission to appeal the ruling. We will continue to monitor this litigation, as it will likely have relevance on any action that we might ultimately recommend.

The European Commission has also criticised the UK and Germany for refusing to share details of the EU emissions law breaches they discovered through their own investigations earlier this year. The Commission has raised fears that VW’s fix may damage your cars by causing additional stress on engine components. This was based on feedback from experts at Vela, an emissions laboratory in northern Italy. While VW has dismissed such findings out of hand, we note that Vela’s findings are entirely consistent with the feedback that we have received from clients, and the opinions that have been expressed on message boards and in the motoring press (such as Auto Express). While we cannot advise you about whether to have your car ‘fixed’ by VW, we confirm that you will not prejudice your legal rights if you did decide to proceed down that path.

Many of you will have seen the recent news that the EU is planning to fine various Member States, the UK included, for failing to take action against VW for cheating the emissions tests. Whilst this is a welcome development, it highlights the EU’s inability to punish VW directly for breaching EU laws and regulations.

These are positive developments, and we certainly believe that the UK should follow the US Government’s proactive approach to the emissions scandal, and apply greater political pressure. However, while we can hope for UK regulatory action, we also believe that private litigation –brought by VW’s customers – would ultimately have a more profound long-term effect on corporate behaviour.

The European Environment Agency recently found that almost 12,000 UK residents die prematurely from diesel pollution each year.  We believe that the consequences of VW’s alleged conduct could have had consequences for public health, as well as the environment.  Private litigation for damages will necessarily focus on the practical financial consequences of the defeat devices. However, it would also send an important message to product manufacturers that UK consumers are willing to hold large corporations to account, even if their government will not.

We wish you a safe and merry festive period, and will be in touch again early in the New Year.

Kind regards,

Jacqueline Young
Head of Group Litigation
Slater and Gordon

[CHoper5]

Thanks very much for the detailed update.

 

I was wondering tho... can anyone answer the question of whether i HAVE to get the fix done as the latest letter seems to imply or am I within my rights to wait until I have conclusive proof it won't damage or adversely effect my vehicle in the long run.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[peterposh]

"While we cannot advise you about whether to have your car ‘fixed’ by VW, we confirm that you will not prejudice your legal rights if you did decide to proceed down that path"

[kevberlin]

Thanks very much for the detailed update.

 

I was wondering tho... can anyone answer the question of whether i HAVE to get the fix done as the latest letter seems to imply or am I within my rights to wait until I have conclusive proof it won't damage or adversely effect my vehicle in the long run.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

It's your car. You don't "have" to do anything.

None of it affects the MOT test.

[Chris]

I bought my 2011 Superb from a Skoda dealer in October and it came with a full service etc. This is showing as not having had the software update.

[peterposh]

It would be nice to have  5 k a vehicle as compensation

[Gazdok]

My brother-in-law had his VW Passat 2.0l TDI 140 "corrected" by VW in Germany last year.

No damage or disadvantage as far as he can tell. Same power subjectively, same MpG and he does about 25 - 30000 km / year.

I can understand why the VW / Skoda / Seat idiots in the UK are dragging their feet so much. The british government is too much of a puppy to hunt them down, and this will get worse after Brexit - we need friends.

However in proper road tests where different cars are compared under real life conditions VAG cars usually fare quite well especially with affected engines. Other manufacturers have simply talked their cars up on paper and invented their consumption figures to a much higher degree.