1.8 TSI High oil consumption..

[Nuclear_Jules]

A compression test may help show where the problem lies

[xman]

I meant valve guides/stems,/seals

 

Still worth doing dry/wet compression tests first.

 

It the valve guides/stems are worn then the seats may be worn ovally.

The head will have to come off and be stripped. Once its off you can inspect the bores.

 

From what I understand, the major problem with these engines are the oil control rings, which get blocked up and the consequential damage.

 

So a complete rebuild is likely imo.

[Stratguy]

Yeah I fear as much, just think that maybe it would be worth a try. Worst case I have a friend who has a friend that does these kind of jobs to finance his dragster racing. Much cheaper than a workshop but still a good chunk of money. I`ll try to keep you posted but I suspect it will end with the same story told by so many others. 

[rayx]

Just search for EA888 oil issue, engines from this family used accross whole VAG, in Skoda at OctaviaII, Superb II and Yeti, most problematic years 6/2009 - 5/2011, but later ones were not curred perfectly too ...

 

1litre per 400km, that is too bad already, accepted limit is only up to 0,5litre per 1000km, that means your are beyond this 5x with 0,5litre per 200km  ... Yes, clogged drainage holes at oil control rings is the root cause, no chance to clean them with anything ...

 

Many topics here, just another example from your country

 

[Stratguy]

Thanks, you’re confirming my worst fears. There’s the ”diesel technique” where you put diesel through the spark plug holes, leave over night and continue filling up until it does’nt disapear, thus has loosened the rings. Many say this actually works but I don’t know. I think it would be difficult just to inspect, see down the holes. 

[rayx]

Russians know that as "раскоксовка", see on YT, this can help a bit, but no chance to loose the tiny, just drilled (not slotted) drainage holes at oil control rings of 06H107065BS pistons ...

 

 

 

https://www.drive2.ru/b/2783707/

 

 

 

Piston rings - Sealing under extreme conditions.pdf

Edited 27 October, 2018 by rayx

[Stratguy]

It’s like they tried to make it bad...

[rayx]

Yes, I see this as very likely option, same bad design of just drilled drainage holes at oil scraping rings still used in latest VAG engines ... Could work at MPI engines without EGR, but surrely not at FSI/TFSI/TSI and any other direct injection engines. Using EGR technics they lower the NOx values, but that means increase of PM particles. EU norm 5 did not control PM particles at petrol engines, EU 6 does, so therefore latest DI engines must have GPF / PPF / OPF filters, same as diesels have DPFs ... But PM particles do not only flow out from the exhaust, it make dirty the engine oil ...

 

!!!Piston Rings for Combustion Engines.pdf

Edited 27 October, 2018 by rayx

[Stratguy]

Have come to terms with the fact that I have to get the engine taken out. Just did an oilchange after the completed RVS treatment. Will now see if there has been any change. When running the engine after I held a piece of paper at the exhaust. It spits out clean oil. It litterally just drains through. 

When you buy a VAG car, first you take a loan to buy the car. Then, soon after, you take another loan to repair the engine. That`s the VAG concept. Unbelievable that they can get away with this...

[xman]

2 hours ago, rayx said:

Russians know that as "раскоксовка", see on YT, this can help a bit, but no chance to loose the tiny, just drilled (not slotted) drainage holes at oil control rings of 06H107065BS pistons ...

 

 

 

https://www.drive2.ru/b/2783707/

 

 

 

 

Unbelievable how any engine designer could even think a ring design like that would not cause problems!

[Stratguy]

Which pistons/rings to buy then? Can I buy pistons with a different design to the rings? If not then the problem would just arise again right? And what else normally gets changed? Need to start calculating.

[xman]

Just now, Stratguy said:

Which pistons/rings to buy then? Can I buy pistons with a different design to the rings? If not then the problem would just arise again right? And what else normally gets changed? Need to start calculating.

 

I'm not an expert, and know very little about 1.8/2.0 tsi engines but I believe that there have been revised pistons/rings and probably more than once. Its usual for VAG to do this all the time, the letter at the end of the part or kit no. changes.

 

Years ago, if the bores were worn, you would fit oversize pistons/rings, not sure if this is still done today.

[Nuclear_Jules]

New design pistons are around £240 each need new con rods too as the gudgeon pin is a different size come as a kit of 4 around £800. There are other pistons from later EA888 engines that may fit with the same size pin so that you can reuse the con rods check out the other posts on the topic

[bigjohn]

48 minutes ago, xman said:

 

 

 

Years ago, if the bores were worn, you would fit oversize pistons/rings, not sure if this is still done today.

 

Back in the day you would fit oversize pistons/rings to match after a rebore. If wear was less and you just needed new rings then you'd also replace with a stepped top ring so that the new top rings didn't get damaged by the bore wear ridge

Edited 27 October, 2018 by bigjohn

[Stratguy]

800£ Well, I`ll see what I can get cause I sure don`t want to do this again. 

Thing is, I really like the car per se. It has everything I need like rain sensor, curve lights, lots of space, I`ve retrofitted a Columbus copy which works great and so on. Apart from the crap VAG engine the car is in very good shape, no rust. So, might be worth fixing. Besides, buying another used car gets you back to square one; what`s wrong with this one? 

Nuclear Jules, what do I search for, like model or what ever?

[xman]

Not sure if NJ meant £800 for conrods plus £960 for pistons, total £1760!!

 

I remember buying oversize pistons for a mini back in the late sixties for about £30 a set of 4.....

Edited 27 October, 2018 by xman

[Stratguy]

Took a look at the german parts sites and the pistons there are like 80£ each. A lot cheaper. But. If they are as the original pieces of **** then what`s the point right?

[Stratguy]

Well, a total of 1760 starts getting somewhat hefty...

[xman]

But even if you build as original parts, then use real synthetic oil like 0w-30 Shell helix Ultra ECT c2/c3, (504/507) and change oil every 5000 miles then it will probably go on forever. 

[Stratguy]

Yeah I had those thoughts as well. Change oil every year actually, no matter how many km you drive AND use good quality oil. Think that would perhaps be enough. 

Edited 27 October, 2018 by Stratguy
Misspelling

[xman]

Looking at those tiny holes, its obvious to me that you need

 

Clean oil - very low ash (saps), quality synthetic (stable not prone to sludge, oxidise, gum up), thin viscosity to keep flowing. So the very best and changed well before it gets heavily loaded with soot and varnishes.

 

Good quality fuel with extra cleaning additives, so premium like vpower,ultimate etc plus maybe occasional dose of cleaner additive.

 

Using 502.00 oil which is not a low SAPS spec and 5w40 or 10w40 I think would be a mistake.

 

Plus, always observe a cool down period after using high power before turning off to allow piston/ring/bore to cool off while maintaining oil flow and not cook on the rings.

Edited 27 October, 2018 by xman

[Rooted]

Using VW 502 so 5w 40 Full Synthetic oil even if not considered by some to be 'Real Full Synthetic'   would be perfect.  

Correct temp range for a 1.8 or 2.0 TSI Euro 5 engine.

 

Give the Long Life Oils a miss.  Not because of being on Fixed Servicing just because of the Long Life Oil and short life TSI's.

[xman]

Dont agree, lets leave it that.

[Rooted]

@xman Could you just say please why you are advising 0w 30 FS LL for a rebuilt or any Euro 5 1.8 or 2.0 TSI, & is this World Region dependent? 

 

EDIT,  sorry i see your low SAP's bit. 

I would be aware of the Higher Octane Super Unleaded and Detergents and the Long Life Oils and possible Bore Wash.

This is why i would say use the Super Unleaded, just not Long Life Oil.  Just my experience and knowledge picked up on TSI's.

 

http://volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/Fuel

 

Edited 27 October, 2018 by Offski

[xman]

29 minutes ago, Offski said:

@xman Could you just say please why you are advising 0w 30 FS LL for a rebuilt or any Euro 5 1.8 or 2.0 TSI, & is this World Region dependent? 

 

I am not advising, its my opinion and only in the context of this thread and Stratguy.

 

Based on engineering knowledge of which I do have some, 

 

If, and it seems likely (in my opinion), that the piston oil control ring design is behind excessive oil consumption, because they block and coke up and cease to perform the function they are supposed to do, then,

 

ideally the design should be changed to avoid this.

 

But, if you are stuck with the original parts, then adopt a strategy to avoid blockage.

 

No. 1 is change oil often, certain operating conditions (power users, short trippers) even more often. Hence 5000 miles.

 

Use an oil that keeps flowing through those tiny holes under any condition. So thinner.

 

I understand what you beef is with long life oil, but the real problem is the change interval, not the lubricant properties. And everyone buys the cheapest, not necessarily the most stable, the ones with the best cleaning additives.

 

Ideally people should check their oil for soot and other contaminants, its fairly obvious to me with my petrol engined cars, when I check oil, I wipe on white kitchen roll. Examine the oil stain after a couple of minutes and look for a clear golden look which appears when the oil is still good. Simple chromatography. Plus smell it for petrol dilution. But I admit that's not very scientific.

 

Again, just my opinion.

 

You can advise.

 

I won't even try to explain my filter change strategy, because I know it will be ridiculed. But I do know a fair bit about filtration from past employment as a design engineer working with hydraulic machinery in extreme environments.