EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[skomaz]

2 hours ago, S00perb said:

Back to Scotland for me if they get independence or France if not.

 

 

Errr...   not sure if you've noticed but that's a Spanish flag...!!!???   

[@Lee]

It just gets better and better..............

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-interest-rates-latest-bank-of-england-raise-coming-months-curb-inflation-mpc-economy-a7946376.html

[@Lee]

4 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Errr...   not sure if you've noticed but that's a Spanish flag...!!!???   

Errr... not sure if you got the point of the post or not...!!!???

[moley]

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

Germans invade London !

 

Apparently heading to take the head of an ageing French General called Arse en.

In two previous conflicts it apparently has ended very badly for the French.

 

English bystanders have to wait an extra hour as UK bobbies and transport system struggling with these non UK people checking their intentions.

20,000 Cologne supporters turned up at the match when only 2900 had tickets. Some fans appear to have bought tickets in the home end and then fought with the stewards to get to the away end. Perhaps this is the new EU model, sod the rules and everyone else we will do as we like.

[skomaz]

22 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

Errr... not sure if you got the point of the post or not...!!!???

 

I assure you I do...   i was just being humourous...   apologies if thats not allowed...

 

jeeez...

 

forgot to say you have good taste in actor...   donald sutherland is a favourite of mine, esspecially in Kellys Heros

Edited 14 September, 2017 by skomaz

[lol-lol]

Don't take on a panther or tiger on with just a Churchill or a sherman.  Though a sherman can add an edge.

[@Lee]

10 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

I assure you I do...   i was just being humourous...   apologies if thats not allowed...

 

jeeez...

 

forgot to say you have good taste in actor...   donald sutherland is a favourite of mine, esspecially in Kellys Heros

Oddball was a great character. One of my favourite characters played by DS was as the Warden in 'Lock Up'. He did a great job in that making the audience hate the character.

[Eddie-NL]

9 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

Oddball was a great character. One of my favourite characters played by DS was as the Warden in 'Lock Up'. He did a great job in that making the audience hate the character.

 

[S00perb]

2 hours ago, skomaz said:

 

Errr...   not sure if you've noticed but that's a Spanish flag...!!!???   

Yep - they (and their Catalonia problem) are the biggest issue with Scotland being an independent EU member.

(Spain won't give me citizenship - long story, but involves when I worked for club 18-30 and telling a coach load of irish chaps that the building they were passing was the only legal whore house in Spain - it was the private residence of the Comisario General de Policía - and he wasn't over endowed with a sense of humour )

Edited 14 September, 2017 by S00perb

[S00perb]

2 hours ago, Lee01 said:

It just gets better and better..............

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-interest-rates-latest-bank-of-england-raise-coming-months-curb-inflation-mpc-economy-a7946376.html

SHEEEITE - that will cause a housing crash if anything will.

Selling up quick.....................

Alsace here I come

[@Lee]

1 minute ago, S00perb said:

SHEEEITE - that will cause a housing crash if anything will.

Selling up quick.....................

Alsace here I come

Stop talking the country down and pray for unicorns and it'll all end  

[S00perb]

8 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

Stop talking the country down and pray for unicorns and it'll all end  

Edited 14 September, 2017 by S00perb

[@Lee]

[Ootohere]

Only a 3rd World War can save us now, maybe tomorrow then as North Korea seems to be cruising for a bruisin.  

The Donald must be thinking of all that lovely dosh coming his and his buddies way rebuilding the world.

 

Must be a flaw in the plan someplace, probably it will be something to do with NATO only having Blanks built in the US of A, 

and Russia having the real deal.

[@Lee]

50 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

Only a 3rd World War can save us now, maybe tomorrow then as North Korea seems to be cruising for a bruisin.  

The Donald must be thinking of all that lovely dosh coming his and his buddies way rebuilding the world.

 

Must be a flaw in the plan someplace, probably it will be something to do with NATO only having Blanks built in the US of A, 

and Russia having the real deal.

Are you totally deluded?

Why don't you headawayoffski. And when you get there, headawayoffski some more  

[moley]

Anyone take note of Juncker's state of the Union speech?

Quote

Below is a brief summary of some of the key points of Jean-Claude Juncker’s State of the Union speech.

On the economy:
Europe’s economic recovery has seen eight million jobs created and employment at record levels.

On finance policy:
The European Union should have a common finance minister, possibly drawn from the existing ranks of the commission.

On Turkey:
Turkey has pushed itself away from EU membership in the foreseeable future. It should leave journalists free to work and stop attacks on European leaders.

On expansion:
The EU will grow beyond its current 27 (excluding the UK) members.

On the Euro:
All EU states should join the euro and the European Commission is ready to help them make the transition.

On cyber security:
Cyber attacks can be more dangerous than guns and tanks so the EU will create a cyber security agency to ensure its defence.

On labour rules:
EU citizens should have the same working rights wherever they are, so the EU will set up a common labour market agency to regulate conditions.

On terrorism:
New unit should help the exchange of information about terrorists and foreign fighters. European public prosecutor should handle cross border prosecution of terrorism crimes.

On defence:
EU should have functioning defence union by 2025.

On migration:
Europe is not a fortress and should welcome those who seek refuge from persecution. However, those who come without justification should be expelled. Italy has led the way on the immigration issue, but other states have not shown enough solidarity.

On the organisation of the EU:
One president, rather than the current system with leaders representing the member states, the Commission and the Parliament, would better embody the unity of Europe.

On the EU budget:
The EU budget should be commensurate with its ambition and should not face cuts.

On Brexit:
Europe will move on, Brexit is not the end and the EU should use the opportunity to restate its mission

No Mention of the Greek Debt, Italian and Spanish banking problems.

EU army back on the agenda

Glossed over the migrant crisis and the fact that 3 EU countries have closed their borders and refused entries.

No mention that Macron is about to demand changes to the EU.

 

The German press seems to have a view on the speech

Quote

Most German papers focused on Juncker’s call for all EU members to adopt the euro. Süddeutsche Zeitung noted the proposal was contrary to the stance taken by the French and German governments, who don’t want a rerun of the Greek debt crisis in countries that join the euro with dubious finances. Frankfurter Allgemeine labeled Juncker’s proposals thus: “More euro, more Brussels, more money.” In a scathing opinion piece on its front page, right-leaning Die Welt called Juncker’s plans “absurd,” asking on which “star the EU spaceship and its captain Juncker have spent the past years.”

 

[Ootohere]

Lee01, 

Edited 15 September, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[S00perb]

2 hours ago, moley said:

Max Mosley said:

Anyone take note of Juncker's state of the Union speech?

No Mention of the Geek Debt, Italian and Spanish Hacking problems.

EU's barmy back on the agenda

Gass from migrants and EU countries have closed their doors and refused entry to Aldi.

No mention that Macaroni is about to change recipe.

Below is a brief summary of some of the key points of Jean-Claude Juncker’s State of the Union speech.

On the economy:
Europe’s economic recovery has seen eight million jobs created and employment at record levels. - sounds good

On finance policy:
The European Union should have a common finance minister, possibly drawn from the existing ranks of the commission. - would have been the UK guy as he was in charge if EU banking, but he resigned in embarrassment

On Turkey:
Turkey has pushed itself away from EU membership in the foreseeable future. It should leave journalists free to work and stop attacks on European leaders.- We shouldn't have made Turkey jump through hoops if we never meant for them to join - we have puched them away

On expansion:
The EU will grow beyond its current 27 (excluding the UK) members. cool

On the Euro:
All EU states should join the euro and the European Commission is ready to help them make the transition. - good idea

On cyber security:
Cyber attacks can be more dangerous than guns and tanks so the EU will create a cyber security agency to ensure its defence. - about time

On labour rules:
EU citizens should have the same working rights wherever they are, so the EU will set up a common labour market agency to regulate conditions. - good

On terrorism:
New unit should help the exchange of information about terrorists and foreign fighters. European public prosecutor should handle cross border prosecution of terrorism crimes. - very good idea

On defence:
EU should have functioning defence union by 2025. - would slow Putin down

On migration:
Europe is not a fortress and should welcome those who seek refuge from persecution. However, those who come without justification should be expelled. Italy has led the way on the immigration issue, but other states have not shown enough solidarity. - exactly right

On the organisation of the EU:
One president, rather than the current system with leaders representing the member states, the Commission and the Parliament, would better embody the unity of Europe. - USoE - Finally - lets do it

On the EU budget:
The EU budget should be commensurate with its ambition and should not face cuts. - there is no shortage of paper - keep printing

On Brexit:
Europe will move on, Brexit is not the end and the EU should use the opportunity to restate its mission - nah - Cancel the leave bit

2 hours ago, moley said:

 

 

[CWARD]

Our school teacher friend in Cologne wasn't too happy with Junkers speech as I reported earlier. Her pupils are now talking about the speech in the same way about the EU going too far in trying to become a federal state. The pupils have asked to have a debate on the EU and how Europe could trade without the EU. I can't wait to find the outcome of that. Need I remind you that these are the next generation in Germany's fastest growing industrial area. I wonder how they took the speech in the Ruhr Valley and how they feel about the future of the EU.

 

The speech wasn't welcome throughout the EU with the exception of France and some were talking of an EU mk2 with fewer members and new rules. 

 

Even the most pro EU struggled to get a positive spin on it.

 

 

[S00perb]

2 minutes ago, CWARD said:

..................... to become a federal state.

 

An excellent suggestion!

[CWARD]

It only just works in the US, such a young nation and they speak the same language. I'm sure it will be roaring success in Europe with all the various languages spoken and traditions  They are already painting over the cracks, they better start stock piling the whitewash to cover the future chasms.

 

Please keep the EU jokes coming, you do make me laugh.

Edited 15 September, 2017 by CWARD

[S00perb]

4 hours ago, CWARD said:

It only just works in the US, such a young nation and they speak the same language. I'm sure it will be roaring success in Europe with all the various languages spoken and traditions  They are already painting over the cracks, they better start stock piling the whitewash to cover the future chasms.

 

Please keep the EU jokes coming, you do make me laugh.

I see the generation split similar to the UK generation split over the vote. But in europe, the older people seem to value the views and beliefs of the younger more than here. So many young people have never known anything but a Europe based system, they are used to it, travel far more than older generations, communicate with people from all over and see differences as interesting, not threatening.

[S00perb]

I'm going to have to break it to them sometime...........

 

 

[CWARD]

4 minutes ago, S00perb said:

I see the generation split similar to the UK generation split over the vote. But in europe, the older people seem to value the views and beliefs of the younger more than here. So many young people have never known anything but a Europe based system, they are used to it, travel far more than older generations, communicate with people from all over and see differences as interesting, not threatening.

 

I hope you are not including me in the older people, I need to have my mid life crisis first! You'd be surprised then that the older generation are no different to ours. When I lived in Germany and was seeing a local girl, The grandparents were very hostile towards me for no reason other than being English but hated the French more. They didn't believe in a united Europe at all, the parents would flip for and against depending on how they felt that date. The parents did enjoy the open market though with good reason as they owned the largest transport company in Lower Saxony at the time.

The younger generation are used to a bigger world than us. As you say they have been born into it, with the internet, more and cheaper transport, package holidays which were virtually unheard of even 30 years ago, TV from around the world. The EU can take credit for some good advances but not those, even some of the poorest areas of the world have access to these.

 

As in my earlier post on this page even the younger generation are starting to wonder where the EU is going after Junker's speech and if that is what they want. I have nothing against the EU as a concept for closer co-operation and trade but under Junker's presidency it has taken a rapid turn for a federal state and expansion at all costs with very little control or regard to others concerns. This isn't anything new as Jacque's Delor started the EU down this route but with each term it seems a faster and faster charge to reach the conclusion. Both Blair and Brown had addressed their concerns and where booed for their efforts. What each of them warned of has become reality and the EU is only just starting to make efforts to amend over a decade later as the rushed into expansion first.  Even now after Junkers speech some are worried what say they will have in the EU without the U.K. to take a stand.

Bulgaria is seeing less benefit from the EU than they do from Russia with the 22% of their GDP coming from the later. They have also been investing heavily in Switzerland (not EU), Austria and Luxembourg.

 

Now you know why Junker said in his speech

 

Quote

If we want more stability in our neighbourhood, then we must maintain a credible enlargement perspective for the Western Balkans.

It is clear that there will be no further enlargement during the mandate of this Commission and this Parliament. No candidate is ready yet. But thereafter the European Union will be greater than 27 in number. Accession candidates must give the rule of law, justice and fundamental rights utmost priority.

 

Quote

This is why today we are proposing a new EU framework for investment screening. If a foreign, state-owned, company wants to purchase a European harbour, part of our energy infrastructure or a defence technology firm, this should only happen in transparency, with scrutiny and debate. It is a political responsibility to know what is going on in our own backyard so that we can protect our collective security if needed.

 

This wasn't widely reported in the media but now more are starting to take note of it. It can hand a lot of power to the bigger members of the EU to make decisions as under qualifying majority can win a vote with 65% representation of the population. It sounds a lot but can be decoded with as few as 8 out of 27 states instead of agreement by all members under the current equal basis.

 

Quote

When it comes to important single market questions, I want decisions in the Council to be taken more often and more easily by qualified majority – with the equal involvement of the European Parliament. We do not need to change the Treaties for this. There are so-called “passerelle clauses” in the current Treaties which allow us to move from unanimity to qualified majority voting in certain areas – if all Heads of State or Government agree to do so.

I am also strongly in favour of moving to qualified majority voting for decisions on the common consolidated corporate tax base, on VAT, on fair taxes for the digital industry and on the financial transaction tax. Europe has to be able to act quicker and more decisively.

 

 

  

[io1901]

18 hours ago, Lee01 said:

It just gets better and better..............

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-interest-rates-latest-bank-of-england-raise-coming-months-curb-inflation-mpc-economy-a7946376.html

 

 

Quite interesting is that inflation has increased with the devaluation of the pound (imported goods cost more) - just talk of increasing interest rates by 0.25% has improved the pounds value overnight  (to high of the year for cable and a recovery against the EUR ) - thereby decreasing inflation. It's a amazing what a speech does.