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Advice When Installing A GTB2260


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Hi Everybody,

 

What I would appreciate is to know, preferably from someone who has done it recently, is why this is NOT considered a bolt on upgrade. That is ignoring all items apart from the turbo itself. I want to have all the bits available and fit in a day, without having to order extra kit when it is in bits.

 

My car has had 1 previous owner and I got it at 15k miles, 2 years ago. I've already fitted an Airtec FMIC with a hardpipe kit and I know I'll need a new clutch fairly soon as its rattling but not yet slipping. I have spoken to Kris at http://www.dieselpowered.co.uk/ and he is prepared to supply a remote mapping service, since I live 5 hours away from him. He has been really helpful.

 

I want to fit the X-Man supplied GTB2260 conversion kit. This comprises...

 

GTB2260VK welded onto cast manifold

2.75" downpipe reduced to stock size at the end

Oil feed

Oil return DIY extension kit

4bar map

Intake pipe coupler

Set of gaskets and nuts

 

So the items to fit/connect are:

Manifold: standard kit

Exhaust Downpipe: connects to standard system

Turbo Air Intake Pipe: coupler supplied (not sure about clips)

Turbo Air Outlet Pipe: I guess I need a different type of silicone pipe reducer, the existing bayonet fitting (51mm to 57mm). The GTB2260 outlet looks bigger with no bayonet fitting.

Oil Feed Pipe: supplied with kit

Oil Return Pipe: supplied with kit

Turbo Bottom Bracket: I've got a MIG welder so I should be able to make one.

4Bar MAP Sensor: supplied with kit (I bought another connector as the wiring on the original looks a bit tight)

Vacuum Actuator: X-Man says this should be pretty close. If I have to adjust, how do I get at it?

 

I have seen a few issues from other people...

 

Alex_e3.... in his project thread mentioned the one of the oil pipes supplied needed modification. Other people have mentioned about the fitting of the tubular manifold - but in my case this is stock, so I don't think I should have a problem. As for the oil return... the 1756 isn't so bad, but the 2260 is very tight indeed. First off split the standard braided section from the original oil feed return in a vice, then I had to cut down the remaining parts so that I could angle the linking rubber pipe correctly. There's no way it would've fitted without chopping some of it off....

 

Coskev... That pipe supplied by xman imo is too thick, just search ebay for oil hose for something more suitable ....

 

hutchysrs50 - Yeah that looks bad. I've done two GTBs and bought darksides oil return kit now. Pricey but it's the right part for the job and avoids things like this....

 

Any comments appreciated.

 

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First of all: I'm glad to see someone who has done some proper research and planned ahead rather than just diving in at the deep end, head first.

Glad to hear you've already fitted the fmic I was about to say it will be an awful lot of work to do both in one day.

I recently fitted a 1756 on a cast manifold from Xman. The two main problems I came across were: the silicone reducer pipe supplied by Xman, going from the standard air intake pipe to the turbo not having enough room or play. This meant I couldn't lift the intake pipe high enough back onto it's brackets and into it's original position.

The other main problem was with the oil return pipe... I had such a nightmare. I bought the Darkside kit with the philosophy of 'you get what you pay for', thinking it would be perfect. However due to the positioning of the turbo (as it is on a standard cast manifold and not a tubular), there was very little room for the return pipe. It was too close, meaning that the oil return pipe kinked slightly as it was too tight an angle. After much head scratching and swapping with different pipes and connectors I now have a not so pretty alternative. The £40 something I paid for the DS kit turned out to be of no use at all. Bear in mind this was for a 1756 so will be slightly different to your turbo and the issue may / may not materialise.

Other comments:

The map sensor: if you have already fitted the standard map sensor in then you have already overcome / didn't need to overcome the lengthening of the loom. I can't remember the precise in's and out's but I seem to think Kris said if you were to fit the map sensor and run the car before calibrating it the car would go into limp mode. Don't quote me on that though, I'm sure someone else will no more exactly than that.

JRJG

Edited by Jrjg
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Don't forget some fresh exhaust clamps. I took the downpipe into my local trade parts place and we tried on a couple of different sizes to find the best fit.

The actuator or stop screw position wasn't a problem with my Xman turbo and Kris was more than happy with how the turbo came on boost. It was something I was dreading as I really didn't fancy axle standing the car at the side of the road to reach up behind the block and work almost blind and just by touch to alter things.

If you have VCDS you can log a few runs to check the turbo is boosting as it should be and isn't over boosting.

As a side though - could you take the turbo to a turbo specialist for them to put on a bench and test it is set up correctly? Mine was bob on so let's hope your's is too. Just a thought.

Don't forget to do a full oil and filter change shortly afterwards to sieve out any possible unfriendly bits that may have found their way in during the changeover.

Best of luck, give yourself plenty of time and don't rush it.

JRJG

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Echo the above - well done on the research!

 

Mine was one of the earlier ones to get done on here with a cast manifold. You're correct in suggesting that the oil return was an issue. It was the biggest issue by far when fitting the kit!

 

As stated above, the damn thing kinks so easily. I took the middle section out of the standard oil return line, and added in a new piece of hose. the problem is that it just wouldn't fit at all, due to the way the standard metal pipes bend round. So I ended up chopping the original metal parts shorter, so the bend wasn't a problem. I was never 100% happy with the hose to be honest.

 

Later on, I ended up fitting a 90 degree bend and 2 small pieces of rubber pipe. Worked much much better. Just don't do what I did and buy a plastic 90 degree joiner!

 

The turbo outlet pipe... your Airtec hose should slide straight onto the compressor snail outlet. No adaptor needed! I ran the same setup.

 

Intake pipe - it won't bolt up as standard, so you'll have to cable tie it, or just leave it loose (which is fine).

 

Actuator adjustment is a royal pain in the arse if you have to. Best to get yourself VCDS and a cheap vacuum pump.

Edited by alex_e3
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Hi Guys,

 

Cheers for the input, it is much appreciated. Regarding the feedback...

 

Turbo Air Intake Pipe: 

So this is my standard BLT TIP (LEFT) compared to Alex_e3 TIP (RIGHT) after the GTB2260 is fitted. I think I will just make an extender bracket. It seems as if it is slightly lower with the bigger turbo fitted.

 

post-63189-0-35521000-1481061666_thumb.jpg

 

Oil Return Pipe: 

I'm going to replace this...... Alex_e3's modified one.

 

post-63189-0-01496400-1481061782_thumb.jpg

 

With these....

1. 1 off - AN-10 Drain for Garrett Turbo GT T20 T25 T28 T30 T35  Billet Oil Return Flange (38mm)

2. 2 off - AN-10 45 Degree Swivel Fast Flow Hose End Fitting Adaptor

3. 1 off - AN-10 JIC Flare to M14x1.5 Metric Straight Male Hose Fitting Adapter (13mm hose)

4. 1 Mtr - AN-10 Stainless Steel Braided PTFE Teflon Hose (1500 PSI / -73°C to + 260°C), I.D.=13mm / O.D.=15.2mm

 

£25 for the bits, plus the hose. More than the X-Man version but cheaper than Darkside.

 

post-63189-0-20047200-1481061789_thumb.jpg

 

Hopefully, I should be able to mimic the 90 degree angle made up by alex_e3. The only thing I was concerned about was the thickness of the hose. The wall is 1.1mm thick and 15.2 OD.

 

Any comments regarding this proposal?

 

Thanks again for the help.

 

Edited by Tuftythesquirrel
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My only concern would be the length of the AN fittings,you might find you don't have room for any hose between them,as AN10 fittings are quite long.

The thickness of the hose will be fine,as the oil return is just the oil leaving the turbo mainly under gravity pressure :)

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My final attempt was with some hydraulic piping bent into an almost 90° bend, to try and get it in the right location, still wasn't spot on. Some very unattractive bodging went on. But it doesn't leak and I can't see it... Niggles me however just knowing it is there.

JRJG

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Well thanks for the feedback guys, so the general consensus is....

 

coskev - No, alex_e3 - No, JRJG - No.

 

That'll be a no then.

 

I think I'see if I can use the turbo and block AN-10 fittings, but use the push-on or barbed type connector as it seems shorter. 

 

I just wanted to make it look a bit more attractive - sad aren't I?

 

Got some bits on order and will try a mock up.

 

Cheers, guys.

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I'll be interested in your final solution as I'm not really happy with mine as it is!

Love AN fittings,but just can't be arsed getting under the car and working out what will fit!!!! :D

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I'll be interested in your final solution as I'm not really happy with mine as it is!

Love AN fittings,but just can't be arsed getting under the car and working out what will fit!!!! :D

+1 as mine looks awful too

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I tried a few things for the oil return, I even heated on the standard piece to bend it slightly and used a flexible pipe but it's so short and such an angle it still kinked.

The darkside custom oil return just seemed the best choice when I was spending so much money on everything.

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  • 3 months later...

Hi,

as for the issues with fitting the oil return it all depends on application and whether it is GTB22 or GTB17 and what manifold on however for some time already the oil return DIY kit is basically 90 degrees silicon elbow (pic attached) + 2 clamps and that is in my personal opinion cheap and very universal solution all you need is to use fittings from your stock oil return and sometimes cut the one on the bloc shorter then just cut the silicon elbow as required and that's it no kinking whatsoever as with any other straight pipe you can find in various so called DIY kits. As for the silicon intake coupler again on some applications it does fit just fine on others the intake pipe on the car is too high/far away we are always happy to take it back if it doesn't fit unfortunately we have no universal solution as of yet to satisfy everyone.

oil feed oil return elbow.JPG

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LOL you supplied me with a length of blue straight silicone pipe,hence my comments above :)

 

Is that 90 degree elbow flourosilicone lined pipe? 

As normal silicone is not suitable for oil or fuel usage and will degrade and break up.

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8 minutes ago, coskev said:

LOL you supplied me with a length of blue straight silicone pipe,hence my comments above :)

 

Is that 90 degree elbow flourosilicone lined pipe? 

As normal silicone is not suitable for oil or fuel usage and will degrade and break up.

 

it is oil resistant the walls are 5mm thick 3 Ply Silicone Coated Fiberglass Fabric Reinforcement I can't imagine it ever braking 

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15 minutes ago, XMANTURBOS said:

 

it is oil resistant the walls are 5mm thick 3 Ply Silicone Coated Fiberglass Fabric Reinforcement I can't imagine it ever braking 

 

Sorry I think you have misunderstood, it doesn't physically break as in the pipe falls apart (well it would if left long enough! ) it breaks down as in the oil/fuel melts/dissolves the silicone.

This happens from inside out obviously so you can't see it.

The pieces that come away then end up in the sump, then get sucked into the oil pump/engine and bye bye engine

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29 minutes ago, coskev said:

 

Sorry I think you have misunderstood, it doesn't physically break as in the pipe falls apart (well it would if left long enough! ) it breaks down as in the oil/fuel melts/dissolves the silicone.

This happens from inside out obviously so you can't see it.

The pieces that come away then end up in the sump, then get sucked into the oil pump/engine and bye bye engine

 

hmm I'm pretty confident that it will not happen lol these hoses are specifically made for automotive purposes they are oil/chemicals resistant 

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8 hours ago, XMANTURBOS said:

 

hmm I'm pretty confident that it will not happen lol these hoses are specifically made for automotive purposes they are oil/chemicals resistant 

 

Pop a pic up of the label then please saying it's flourosilicone lined :)

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2 hours ago, coskev said:

 

Pop a pic up of the label then please saying it's flourosilicone lined :)

they come with no labels ;)  I think I would know by now if they where disintegrating lol

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I have no doubt that the Fluro lined hoses are ok for a period, but isn't the issue what will they be like in a couple of years from now it?

Most suppliers say something along the lines of.. "FLURO lined hoses are ideal for contact with Oils / Oil mists and fuel Filler hoses"

But Demon Tweeks angle on this is .... Samco Fuel And Oil hose is specially manufactured with a fluorosilicone liner which allows the hose to resist short term contact with oil and petrol fluids, and permanent contact from their vapours, making them ideal for oil or fuel filler neck assemblies or oil breather plumbing. Note: This hose type is not suitable for permanent fuel or oil transfer (fuel or oil lines), or immersion in fuel or oil.

So having just purchased the XMan GTB2260 kit and even though I have bought the oil return pipe, I think I'm going to see if I can get some stainless steel braided teflon line hose to fit. The spec. also them to be more tolerant to heat i.e. 270 vs 150 Deg. C

Edited by Tuftythesquirrel
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On 3/29/2017 at 22:31, Tuftythesquirrel said:

I have no doubt that the Fluro lined hoses are ok for a period, but isn't the issue what will they be like in a couple of years from now it?

Most suppliers say something along the lines of.. "FLURO lined hoses are ideal for contact with Oils / Oil mists and fuel Filler hoses"

But Demon Tweeks angle on this is .... Samco Fuel And Oil hose is specially manufactured with a fluorosilicone liner which allows the hose to resist short term contact with oil and petrol fluids, and permanent contact from their vapours, making them ideal for oil or fuel filler neck assemblies or oil breather plumbing. Note: This hose type is not suitable for permanent fuel or oil transfer (fuel or oil lines), or immersion in fuel or oil.

So having just purchased the XMan GTB2260 kit and even though I have bought the oil return pipe, I think I'm going to see if I can get some stainless steel braided teflon line hose to fit. The spec. also them to be more tolerant to heat i.e. 270 vs 150 Deg. C

 

the oil return is not in direct contact with oil all the time only when the car is being driven which is what? typically 1-2 hours a day in most cases? also the oil is being drained by gravity so no pressure this means that it is under very little stress and pretty much oil free for most of the time. I will do an experiment I will put the silicon oil return elbow in the oil for a month or so and will keep monitoring it to see if it's changing in any way that should equal to the oil return being on the car for like a year. So far there was not a single complaint from anyone and the first silicon hoses for making oil returns were sold like 3-4 years ago...

Edited by XMANTURBOS
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