Chicken and Egg

[dsr]

Octavia II - 2.0 103KW TDi AE55 plate 1Z3.

 

My battery died last week.  When I replaced it the dash lit up in tune with the time of year.  I reset all the codes but couldn't get in to reset the ABS controller.

 

I now have a car that I don't feel comfortable driving.  The speedo is not working and neither is the rev counter.  If I turn the ignition on, all the lights come back on.  The cooling fans start and ramp up to full speed even though the engine is cold :-(

 

I removed fuse 4 from the engine bay fuse box.  Once I did this, the car would start and run.  With the fuse in, the engine is immobilsed and will only run for a couple of seconds.   I have to go through the remove fuse, clear all the faults and start the engine routine once that happens.  Once the engine is running, I can put the fuse back in and it will happily keep running but won't start if I turn it off.  The fuse is Fuse 4 'Valves for ABS'.  This is a 30A fuse.  Nothing I do gets me to read the ABS system.

 

I think the ABS CU has failed so I am going to replace it and see if that will bring back the speedo and the rest of the bus.  However, reading the user's manual from erwin, it says :-

 

'Read out and note the actual control unit coding'

 

as part of the removal process and :-

 

'Code the control unit -J104- ⇒ Vehicle diagnostic tester.'

 

as part of the replacement process.

 

How do I do that when I can't even see the ABS unit with the reader :-(  I know it was there - I had to read and erase the fault codes last year when I replaced a faulty wheel sensor.

 

Just out of interest, fuse 5 is 'Control unit for automatic gearbox', the car has a manual 6 speed gearbox so just what is this fuse for ?

 

I'm not going to get a new unit and I'm going to fit the stuff myself, it will cost more than the car is worth to take it to a dealer for them to do the work :-(  The units seem readily available from breakers so it should be a relatively cheap fit though not for the faint hearted, especially outside in winter :-(

 

Annoyingly, I have just fitted four new tyres, new rear disks and pads and a new battery.  I replaced all the front brakes in February this year too :-(  GRRR.

 

 

 

D

[Rustynuts]

If you've done a scan previously, did you save a scan log? The ABS coding will be saved in that log.

[dsr]

If you've done a scan previously, did you save a scan log? The ABS coding will be saved in that log.

Hi Rusty,

 

thanks for the reply.  No, I haven't :-(  and it is something I seriously regret.

 

 

I don't think I am in a unique situation.  There must be some way to regenerate the codes.  If the unit had failed and been taken to a Skoda dealer for repair they would be in the same situation.

 

Life was much easier when all you needed was a socket set, some feeler gauges and a hammer :-)

 

 

D

[TheClient]

It's not my area of expertise, but just thinking out loud as to how you get out of this...  What would the coding be dependant on?  I.e. what other car could give you coding that would work? Is it based on vehicle spec / engine or more likely I suppose ABS controller part and version? I can give you mine from a full scan but my car is a 2011 vRS TSI i.e 1Z5 and I suspect you will need something closer to your car specifics?

Edited 9 December, 2016 by TheClient

[langers2k]

A Skoda dealer would plug it in and the software/server would generate a new lcode.

 

It depends what ABS system we are dealing with to how hard it is to generate a new lcode. MK70 and MK70M are pretty simple, MK60 and MK60EC1 have parts of the VIN encoded in to the lcode.

 

Do you know the part numbers of the pump that's fitted or the one you intend to replace it with?

 

Probably worth posting a full VCDS autoscan to see what you've got installed.

[Eddie-NL]

Try coding out the ABS in the Can gateway 

 

post up a full autoscan 

[dsr]

I don't have easy access to VCDS any more so I am working a bit blind on this one.  I am also nowhere near the car at the moment.  It will be the weekend before I can get any time under the bonnet.  I'm planning on removing the plug and having a good look to see if there is any corrosion etc.  I also need to get the part number off the unit so I can buy the correct one.

 

At the moment I'm playing with the idea of just scrapping the car and getting another one (I like the Yeti), I've had this one for eight years and it owes me nothing, it's served me well and this is the first unexpected major thing that's gone wrong.  Apart from regular servicing and replacing worn out running components and suspension the car has done well, it's got 160k on the clock and is starting to rust on the sill and wheelarches so it's borderline whether I spend the time doing the work.  It would probably have been scrapped if this had happened before I fitted new rear calipers, pads and discs followed by four new tyres.  I replaced the disks, shoes and calipers on the front earlier this year too so it's got good running gear.  My next major work was expected to be the timing belt and water pump but that's a bit irrelevant now.

 

Please bear with me while I contemplate...

 

 

 

D

Edited 9 December, 2016 by dsr

[Eddie-NL]

Where are you located?

 

I wouldn't buy anything till you have checked the wiring etc

[dsr]

I have checked all the fuses, there is current drain on all of them that look like they are involved.  I have cleared all the codes and had a good look at the wiring to the unit, everything looks fine.  I rescanned the car and got a lot of errors.  I cleared all of the errors that I could, removed the battery connector and started again.  Loads of errors.  I cleared everything but still get the stubborn ABS and steering errors.  I get nothing from the ABS unit at all.  I think this is definitely fried and consequently, no wheel speed data is getting to the steering so I am not getting the speedometer working.

 

The part number on the ABS unit is 1K0 614 117H, I couldn't see the part number for the controller due to how it is mounted.  I will need to remove the unit before I can get the part number.  A quick search for the part number on a 'popular  on-line auction site reveals that the controller always has a part number of 1K0 907 379P so it looks as if what I have is a fairly common part.

 

What I don't know is what the coding of the unit is.  Will it be the same for all the units with that part number or will it be unique to the vehicle ?

 

I have been unable to find a detailed wiring diagram for the car so I could try ringing the cables out.  Does anybody have a good quality wiring diagram for the car ?  What I downloaded from Erwin is pretty useless :-(

 

Latest and greatest scan is below.  Notice there is no braking module in the list :-( :-

 

 

OBDeleven data log

Date: 2016-12-14 12:18

VIN: TMBCE21Z562144017

Car: Skoda Octavia

Year: 2006

Engine: BKD

Mileage: 254270 KM

---------------------------------------------------------------

01 Engine Control Module 1

System description: R4 2,0L EDC G000SG

Software version: 7000

Hardware number: 03G906016HF

Serial number: SKZ7Z0E3115410

Coding: 0000072

Trouble codes:

No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------

08 Air Conditioning

System description: Climatic PQ35 010

Software version: 0301

Hardware number: 1Z0820047D

Trouble codes:

01316 - Brake control module Please read DTC

static

---------------------------------------------------------------

09 Central Electrics

System description: Bordnetz-SG H34

Software version: 0803

Hardware number: 1K0937049M

Serial number: 00000003424020

Long coding: 00880F030004140000110D000000000000087B075C

Subsystems:

System description: Wischer SK351 012

Software number: 1Z2955119A

Software version: 0401

Coding: 0065525

Trouble codes:

No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------

15 Airbag

System description: Q4 AIRBAG VW8 015

Software version: 2100

Hardware number: 1K0909605N

Serial number: 0038ED0HL14

Coding: 0020788

Trouble codes:

No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------

16 Steering Column Electronics

System description: Lenksäulenmodul 034

Software version: 0070

Hardware number: 1K0953549AF

Coding: 0000042

Trouble codes:

No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------

17 Dash Board

System description: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VD1

Software version: 3562

Hardware number: 1Z0920910D

Coding: 0003401

Trouble codes:

No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------

19 Gateway

System description: Gateway H10

Software version: 0120

Hardware number: 1K0907530F

Serial number: 2800105627885A

Long coding: 3D3F0340071303

Trouble codes:

No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------

25 Immobilizer

System description: IMMO

Software version: 3562

Hardware number: 1Z0920910D

Trouble codes:

No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------

42 Door Electronics Driver Side

System description: Tuer-SG 024

Software version: 2346

Hardware number: 1T0959701B

Coding: 0000756

Trouble codes:

No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------

44 Steering Assistance

System description: EPS_ZFLS Kl.5 D04

Software version: 1606

Hardware number: 1K2909144J

Trouble codes:

00625 - Speed signal No signal/communication

static

00778 - Steering angle sensor

static

---------------------------------------------------------------

46 Central Module Comfort System

System description: KSG

Software version: 0401

Hardware number: 1K0959433AK

Long coding: 01D002007F2D8505485F861004CC

Subsystems:

System description: LIN BACKUP HORN H03

Software number: 1K0951605C

Software version: 1301

System description: NGS n.mounted

System description: Innenraumueberw.008

Software number: 1Z0951171

Software version: 4801

Coding: 0000000

Trouble codes:

01312 - Drive train data bus Please read DTC

static

---------------------------------------------------------------

52 Door Electronics Passenger Side

System description: Tuer-SG 024

Software version: 2346

Hardware number: 1T0959702B

Coding: 0000756

Trouble codes:

No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------

56 Radio

System description: Radio FO3 012

Software version: 0026

Hardware number: 1Z0035161B

Serial number: SKZ7Z3E0027494

Coding: 0000402

Trouble codes:

No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------

62 Door Electronics Rear Left

System description: Tuer-SG 021

Software version: 2405

Hardware number: 1K0959703E

Coding: 0000144

Trouble codes:

No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------

72 Door Electronics Rear Right

System description: Tuer-SG 021

Software version: 2405

Hardware number: 1K0959704E

Coding: 0000144

Trouble codes:

No trouble codes found

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

D

[xman]

Have tried disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes and reconnecting?

[Breezy_Pete]

Have you checked Fuse 2 (5 Amp) in the cabin fusebox?

[dsr]

Have tried disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes and reconnecting?

 

Yes :-)  It was disconnected overnight and was still no better :-(

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

D

Edited 14 December, 2016 by dsr

[dsr]

Have you checked Fuse 2 (5 Amp) in the cabin fusebox?

 

Yes.  The fuse was fine.  Only had 6.8mA flowing through it which I thought was a bit low but that could be due to the unit being faulty.

 

Without a known good working reference, it's difficult to know what the readings should be.

 

 

D

Edited 14 December, 2016 by dsr

[Breezy_Pete]

You say the info you got from Erwin didn't help, which surprises me, which documents did you download? All the relevant Current flow diagrams? (via Individual vehicle information tab).

[dsr]

You say the info you got from Erwin didn't help, which surprises me, which documents did you download? All the relevant Current flow diagrams? (via Individual vehicle information tab).

I have just been through the workshop manual (I did the download a few months ago when I was after some torque settings).  I downloaded every PDF I could find that was avaialble for the car.  There is stuff on the electrical system but it is the general electrical repair stuff and how to replace some of the modules.  I couldn't find anything more specific.

 

I have just been and logged back in and can't see the pages.  I don't run Windows or Internet explorer so it won't talk to me.  Another 7 EU down the drain :-(

 

 

D

[Breezy_Pete]

OK, next time you're at a computer with 'normal' stuff on it, keep your credit card in your pocket, log into erWin, and just browse.

Hover over the Individual vehicle information tab, fourth from the left, choose 'Repair information' from the dropdown. Choose the model you're interested in, choose 'Info medium' Circuit diagrams, view the options (6 separate pdfs for Octy2, may as well get them all).  Click on the title link of the first one you want, when you see a button that says 'Order flat rate', then get your CC out and spend the 7 Euros. Download and move onto the next thing.

[dsr]

OK, next time you're at a computer with 'normal' stuff on it, keep your credit card in your pocket, log into erWin, and just browse.

Hover over the Individual vehicle information tab, fourth from the left, choose 'Repair information' from the dropdown. Choose the model you're interested in, choose 'Info medium' Circuit diagrams, view the options (6 separate pdfs for Octy2, may as well get them all).  Click on the title link of the first one you want, when you see a button that says 'Order flat rate', then get your CC out and spend the 7 Euros. Download and move onto the next thing.

 

Thanks WIno.  When I checked, I had downloaded those documents.  I was having trouble with the assist application which needs Windows to run.  Looking closely at the PDF's I downloaded, I don't think the assist application will give me any more help.  The pdf's have the connectors and pin info and what I have seen of the assist, it doesn't offer much more.

 

D

[Breezy_Pete]

No problem.  I have no idea what the assist application is, but I don't think I need to know by the sound of it.

[dsr]

Next question though, I got the battery off and the tray removed and got the part numbers for the pump and controller.   They are fairly common :-

 

Pump: 1K0 614 117H

ECU: 1K0 907 379P

 

Everything looks OK.  I have not been able to remove the cable from the ECU and check continuity etc. but everything is in place physically.

 

How do I remove the cable from the controller.  There is a red slider on the connector which I slid down but the connector still doesn't want to move.  It could be I am a bit wimpy and my hands were freezing and I just need to apply more brute force but I'd rather not do that unless as a last resort.

 

 

 

D

[Eddie-NL]

slide the red tab down

 

then pull on the lever

[moiloon]

I had similar problem with my mk5 golf which also was a bkd,and had same abs and steering fault codes these appeared after I took car off the road and battery totally died  

the remedy for me was to check all ground points in the engine bay and clean corrosion where required,

also what I found that the dtcs would not clear after doing a autoscan with vcds, but if going into each individual module in vcds , ie abs ,engine ect ect  and clear them that way the dtcs cleared

I since sold the car a month or so ago, but after doing the above steps those dtcs never appeared again

hope this is your trouble too as its a easy free fix,  good luck

Edited 20 December, 2016 by moiloon

[dsr]

I had similar problem with my mk5 golf which also was a bkd,and had same abs and steering fault codes these appeared after I took car off the road and battery totally died  

the remedy for me was to check all ground points in the engine bay and clean corrosion where required,

also what I found that the dtcs would not clear after doing a autoscan with vcds, but if going into each individual module in vcds , ie abs ,engine ect ect  and clear them that way the dtcs cleared

I since sold the car a month or so ago, but after doing the above steps those dtcs never appeared again

hope this is your trouble too as its a easy free fix,  good luck

Hi Moiloon,

 

did your scan show the ABS unit.  It's not appearing on my scans at all.  It was there earlier this year because I had to replace an ABS sensor and had to go in to clear the codes.  It's not there now.  Phyically it is, electronically it is not showing :-(

 

 

D

[moiloon]

I don't think it did initially, but what I did was disconnected the battery terminals from battery, then touched the positive and negative leads together for a minute or so, like a hard reset so to speak,

left it 1/2 or so, then went back to car, reconnected +and - power leads to battery, rescanned car , went to each module seperatly,abs unit was available,+cleared dtcs

also what software are you using to get your scan results?

Edited 21 December, 2016 by moiloon

[dsr]

I don't think it did initially, but what I did was disconnected the battery terminals from battery, then touched the positive and negative leads together for a minute or so, like a hard reset so to speak,

left it 1/2 or so, then went back to car, reconnected +and - power leads to battery, rescanned car , went to each module seperatly,abs unit was available,+cleared dtcs

also what software are you using to get your scan results?

 

I will give the shorting out a go.  I left it unconnected overnight last week to see if it would drain any charge away but didn't try shorting it out.  I'll do it when the weather is better and I can see what I am doing.  At least we're past the shortest day and on the way to Summer :-)

 

I'm using OBDELEVEN for scanning.  I don't have access to a Windows PC for VCDS (Day job is UNIX so get shoved Windows by the customer, no need for it at home.  If I get really stuck I have a local friendly garage who will do the scans but I'm not that desperate yet :-))

 

I also have a VS-450 code reader and that can't see the ABS system either, I used that to reset the ABS unit before I had OBDELEVEN,  Two readers telling me the same thing is pretty conclusive :-(

 

If anybody has a scan of a 1Z3 2005 103KW 2.0 TDi Ambiente that shows the code in the ECU I'd appreciate a copy of it.  I don't know whether the code is model specific, vehicle specific or controller specific so getting a couple of scans from similar vehicles will hopefully give me an idea.

 

I am fully expecting to have to replace the ECU but don't want to :-(

 

 

D

[dsr]

I fixed it today.

 

It's been sat on the drive for the last two months and I have been otherwise occupied to get the time/weather right so I could get out and crack on with it.

 

I replaced the complete ABS module.

 

I've attached a PDF of the wiring to the plug and some pics of the plug.

 

I rang the wires out and had good earth, good supply and also good bus connection.  Getting the plug off the ECU is difficult, especially with cold hands.  The unit is not in the best of places to gain access.  In case you are reading this to find out how to get the plug off you need to slide the red lever downwards (img1 & 2), easy enough, then there is a lever just above the red img3 which needs to be pulled away from the plug and hinged all the way down.  This jacks the plug out of the ECU.  It is difficult to get to on the Octavia and I would recommend taking the battery out to give you better access.  The big lever is locked in place with the red one but it is also latched so you need a bit of force to get it over the latches.  Once it moves, it is fine but getting it started is the problem.  I used a scriber with a 90 degree end to hook behind the lever and pulled it because it was just too painful on my finger ends.  The images are the right way up as the cable is mounted.  The loom enters the plug at the top.  I made sure the unit I got from Ebay came supplied with the plug just so I could take these photos :-)

 

I found a replacement ABS unit on Ebay for £30.00 including delivery and plugged it in but it didn't show up on the scan at first.

 

When I went back and checked the system I found that I had left fuse 4 out in the engine fuse box.  Once that was plugged in the ECU was visible on the bus.  This is slightly misleading because fuse 2 in the cabin fuse box is 'Control unit for ABS,ESP' so you would expect that fuse to be the fuse that powered the electronics.  Fuse 16 (30A) 'Pump for ABS' and Fuse 4 (30A) 'Valves for ABS' seem to be a bit large for powering the electronics :-)

 

I had removed fuse 4 because that was the only way I could get the engine to run for more than a couple of seconds.

 

I think what has happened is when I changed the battery on the car, the ECU fried.  It fried in such a way that it latched the bus drivers on if there was power supplied (via fuse 4), possibly even put a full 12V on the bus.  This stopped all the other ECU's from using the bus reliably hence I got everything lit up as broken.  WIth the fuse out, I was able to clear the faults, keep the engine running and run diagnostics, with the fuse in, nothing.

 

I will take the ECU to bits and see if I can see something obvious when I get a bit of time.

 

The job was straightforward to do but it was a pain having to remove the battery, the air intake ducting etc. just to get to the unit.  I also think that the unit could have been mounted so that it would be possible to replace just the ECU.  As it is, you can't get in to the screws to remove the ECU because it's facing the inner wing.  Moving the unit nearer the centre of the car would have made the job a lot easier.  I had one brake pipe seized in the union.  I undid all of the others OK and removed the unit from the mount and then unscrewed it from the pipe.  I had to warm the union up to free it).  I overheated it and melted the plastic coating but I figured this was better than twisting the union and snapping the pipe :-)

 

I now have my favourite car on the road again :-)

 

 

 

ABS_Connector_Plug-Pin_Assignments.pdf