MK2 VRS 2.0TSI, should i be worried?

[The1stlegend]

So I'm pretty new here and recently bought a 59 plate petrol vrs with 26k on the clock. Looking on here there seems to be what looks like a lot of timing chain tensioner problems with them. I'm just wondering wether this is actually a major/common problem with these engines and wether i should be scared to start my car up every morning!

[andsoutham]

my car had a new engine at 50k miles for the same problem. its well documented on this site. if it were me i would do it for peace of mind, better spending however much it is on the new tensioner rather than £2-3k on a new engine if it goes

[mikey vrs]

If there is no paperwork with the car showing that the car has had the tensioner replaced then i personally would have the latest version of the tensioner fitted & the timing chain replaced if required. 

[roaddetective]

For my own peace of mind, I had new chains and tensioner fitted earlier this year when my car had around 52k miles. Heard too many stories of tensioner failure with blown engines.

[RedOctaviavRS20]

I'd go and get the tensioners changed to the latest ones for piece of mind.

[King85]

Yes do it. It's a small percentage effected so I thought it won't happen to me. Sadly I was wrong and ended up having to get all my inlet valves replaced.

[The1stlegend]

Thanks for the replies (albeit not the answers i would like to hear lol). I can't find any paperwork saying anything about the tensioner being replaced so i went to my local Skoda dealership to see if they would do it and they seem to think it's not a common fault and I'm worrying over nothing? I'd understand if they just want to pretend their cars are perfect but I'd also expect them to want my money and get the tensioner replaced? I think i will get it changed anyway for peace of mind. Just seems strange to me that the mechanics there aren't even aware of why there is a new chain tensioner. They're told to "use this item but aren't told why its been updated"

[silver1011]

Skoda technicians are very competent I'm sure, they get lots of training, but gone are the days of them being mechanics, they are simply parts-fitters.

 

That isn't meant to be derogatory, modern cars are now constructed to allow fault diagnosis to be done electronically, however on older models, such as your MkII Octavia (first launched in 2004) sometimes a mechanic with an in-depth knowledge and many years of hands-on experience will mean that for some faults on older cars you are better off outside the Skoda dealer network.

 

This isn't a hard and fast rule, and using the same outlook you'll find those same mechanics will increasingly struggle to diagnose issues on more modern cars that require complex diagnostic readers and procedures.

 

The point I'm trying to make is don't be surprised that your local franchised Skoda dealer isn't aware of known issues. Remember some of these guys can't even reset the service indicator correctly. That doesn't mean the issue isn't there. From this very thread alone you can see the number of issues and this is just a tiny proportion of the 1.8 and 2.0 petrol engine owners.

 

For more then see this thread here, as you can see it is well documented. Skoda UK are all too aware of the issue but as you might expect they don't want to publicise it. When it's pinned at the top of this very forum you know it is worth reading...

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/

 

If the car is in good nick and a 'keeper' get it done. Now you know about it then like you say every morning you'll be starting the engine with your buttocks clenched!  

[Gobsheene]

Out of curiosity, what price are people paying for the updated tensioner and chain with or without fitting?

[roaddetective]

Had all the chains, tensioner the full kit fitted last September, done at my very trusted local independent garage. The total cost was £640. Piece of mind, priceless! 

[Gobsheene]

Thanks Mr Detective.

Do you remember how much was labor and how much was parts?

[roaddetective]

Here are the details on the invoice

 

Parts

BGA Timing chain kit less oil pump drive chain       £210            

Labour- 8hrs X  £40 per hour                                   £320

Sundries-                                                                  £3.00

                                                                 Total         £533

                                                                  VAT          106.60

                                                   Final Total             £639.60

I supplied my own oil and genuine filter.

[jellybeard999]

I raised this a few months ago

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/398414-ea888-20-tsi-revised-cam-chain-tensioner-parts/

 

Going to get it done this year at the service, probably at the local indy garage. If anyone has anything to add to the thread re part numbers etc it would be helpful :)

[roaddetective]

I raised this a few months ago

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/398414-ea888-20-tsi-revised-cam-chain-tensioner-parts/

 

Going to get it done this year at the service, probably at the local indy garage. If anyone has anything to add to the thread re part numbers etc it would be helpful :)

The number on the side of the BGA kit box is--- TC0150FK.

[TheClient]

I replied to your original thread.

 

I can list parts and costs, from my independent job in April (VAG genuine parts) if you wish, but they are all covered within the part listings you quoted in the start of your thread.

 

It depends on the extent of replacement you want to undertake. 

 

I would strongly suggest replacing the chain if doing the tensioner, as the chain stretch is after all the reason for the tensioner in the first place, given the pretty big job of getting in there, it makes sense to replace that.

 

From memory parts were about £270 incl Vat.  That includes chain, tensioner, top cover seal, new bottom timing cover with integrated crank pulley seal, 2 guides and a rail. Then there was new oil and a filter, and about 5 edit: maybe 6  hours labour but they worked on it most of the day. From an independent near edit: Nuneaton my bill came to £640 incl Vat.

 

Some people have talked about replacing other chains and tensioners for balance shafts and oil pump as well as the cam bridge with the integral mesh filter. For me, that was overkill  given the volume of failures are primarily around the timing chain and/or  timing chain tensioner.  Not to say it is impossible to have a problem with the others.....

 

Heaps and heaps of detailed info in the sticky 1.8 / 2.0 tsi engine failure thread.

Edited 7 January, 2017 by TheClient

[The1stlegend]

 Should have taken all of your advice, on Friday my car (now on 33k) started to take longer to start than usual but seemed to be running fine until saturday when the engine management light came on a little while after the delayed starting up (in the manual it says the yellow engine symbol is related to the exhaust manifold). Luckily i paid for 2 years warranty when i bought the car so called out a mechanic through that and found 3 faults:

 

P0507: idle air control system higher than expected

 

P0016: crankshaft/camshaft position sensor

 

P0441: exhaust emmision control circuit incorrect flow

 

The mechanic reset the faults as the car was in limp mode so started it up and took it for a quick spin and couldn't notice anything wrong with it. This was on a Saturday afternoon so all garages were closed, mechanic said it would be ok to drive until then as it will be fine even if it does go back into limp mode.

 

Next day (Sunday) i drove it cautiously to where i needed to go and although the warning light didn't come on, the car still took a little longer than usual to start. When starting the engine again to head home it took a while to start again and the warning light came back on. After about 30 seconds of leaving the engine to idle after starting (probably as the chain tensioner was doing its job) the engine seemed to be running rough and jumpy so switched it off and assumed the worst.

 

Got it towed back to the dealership i bought it from so will ring them first thing in the morning to explain what my cars doing there. Will update this when i know what it is for certain but it's looking like another one for the sticky thread!

[TheClient]

It does sound like you may have a timing problem now.  You got warning lights and some warning of mis-operation with the car still operating. Not everyone does. Was it rattly at initial start up or different to before?  That is when the tensioner is relaying on the ratchet to give it tension and old versions of the tensioner were terrible design destined the fail at some point. More a question of when rather than if they fail.

 

If you are lucky, it may be just the timing chain has skipped a tooth and there is no head damage or other related timing gear damage. I suppose it could be something else, but the Camshaft / crankshaft correlation looks ominous together with missing. 

 

I'm guessing this is not a Skoda approved warranty. As they are normally 12 months and only cars up to 6 years. So it is a third part warranty - who with?

 

Don't forget, the warranty may be a distraction. It may be a better course of action to pursue your statutory rights with the dealer yourself. Depending on what hoops, limits, excesses the warranty has and their attitude towards claims. In my experience they are rarely worth the paper they are printed on but it depends.

 

For statutory rights, under Consumer Rights Act, the burden of proving the fault existed at time of purchase falls to purchaser after 6 months. If you are under 6 months since purchase, life is a little easier...

 

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

 

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

[The1stlegend]

 Yeah I'm pretty sure it was the chain tensioner. I'd always been somewhat worried about it since buying the car after discovering the chain tensioner seemed like a pretty frequent fault so always listened to it when starting it up etc. Still waiting to hear back from the garage, will give them a call soon.

 

On start up it always rattled briefly for under a second when starting up but i think that's normal so wasn't worried about that. Things started going wrong when the engine had to turn over a bit longer than usual before starting up, a bit like when you have a flat battery i suppose?

 

I think i was lucky the first time the warning light came on but after the mechanic came out (the mechanic included in the breakdown cover i purchased with the car) and reset the fault. He gave it the all clear and said no further damage will happen as it will go into limp mode which i believe has been documented by him so have a bit of an argument for my case if they try to get out of coughing up for the damages.

 

But anyway, i think the chain had only skipped a couple of teeth at that point so no major damage had occurred but now i think its foo far gone. When the mechanic came out for a second time and turned the key it did not sound good at all. Didn't give it long enough to try and start as it sounded too bad initially.

 

I'm not sure if the warranty is approved but i did buy it from auto devotion which is part of Robinsons and as far as I'm aware they are linked to skoda? The warranty itself is with a company called Auto Protect.

 

I've had the car for about 7 months now unfortunately but I've spent most of my morning looking at the small print of what is covered and all ive found is that damage from a cambelt is not covered. Doesn't mention anything about a chain but that's what mine is. I'd like to think that the chain isn't a consumable or a wear and tear type part so I'll be ok. Have had a look at my consumer rights act though so hopefully just mentioning that will scare them into paying if it comes to that.

 

Will give the garage a call and see if they've had a chance to look into it yet. And hopefully get a courtesy car

[roaddetective]

To give you some hope, my car came with a 3 month warranty with Auto Protect. 1 week into ownership the EML light came on. It was the inlet manifold, so a claim went in via my local garage. They did pay out the £500+ bill no problem. Hopefully you are covered okay on the tensioner and chains.

 

[The1stlegend]

Update: garage has taken a look at the car and have confirmed the pistons are bent and will need a new engine so they're now trying to get it to a main dealer to sort. 

 

The Service advisor from Auto Devotion i was on the phone to remembers me from when i first bought the car and recalls me asking about wether the chain tensioner needs replacing, so at least they aren't turning a blind eye. He also said they will have to see what Skoda say it will cost and see if they can give a goodwill discount before autoprotect will do anything as that's their first protocol.

 

Even though the car is over 7 years old it still only has 33k on the clock so can still fight a case that this issue shouldnt have occured with that mileage. It's also been serviced by the main dealer since new apart from when it was serviced at auto devotion when i bought it. But they're part of Robinsons anyway i believe so hopefully I'll be ok there.

 

Hoping Skoda will at least pay 50% goodwill towards fixing this and autoprotect will pay the other half but will have to wait and see. Glad to hear someone's had luck with Auto Protect before so thanks Roaddetective.

 

Now i need a courtesy car but none are available for 2 weeks so im not sure what to do there as i need to get to work. Thanks for all the advice so far as ive never dealt with a case like this before so any more advice you can give would be appreciated!

[rayx]

1 hour ago, The1stlegend said:

I think i was lucky the first time the warning light came on but after the mechanic came out (the mechanic included in the breakdown cover i purchased with the car) and reset the fault. He gave it the all clear and said no further damage will happen as it will go into limp mode which i believe has been documented by him so have a bit of an argument for my case if they try to get out of coughing up for the damages.

 

But anyway, i think the chain had only skipped a couple of teeth at that point so no major damage had occurred but now i think its foo far gone. When the mechanic came out for a second time and turned the key it did not sound good at all. Didn't give it long enough to try and start as it sounded too bad initially.

 

That Mr. "mechanic" knows very little about these engines, already first assistance on Saturday was wrong.

[The1stlegend]

Yep he was wrong and that should all be documented. I'm hoping this case will go my way as i can't see Auto Protect having a leg to stand on unless there's something in the small print i missed. Can't work out the maximum amount they'll pay out on a claim though.

[Sarge]

I wouldn't expect anything from Skoda UK. Despite the low mileage and known issue they will doubtless say that because the car is over five years old they can't help. Hopefully your warranty and the garage from whom you bought the car will help. Good luck with it. 

[TheClient]

15 hours ago, The1stlegend said:

Update: garage has taken a look at the car and have confirmed the pistons are bent and will need a new engine so they're now trying to get it to a main dealer to sort. 

 

Hoping Skoda will at least pay 50% goodwill towards fixing this and autoprotect will pay the other half but will have to wait and see. Glad to hear someone's had luck with Auto Protect before so thanks Roaddetective.

 

Now i need a courtesy car but none are available for 2 weeks so im not sure what to do there as i need to get to work. Thanks for all the advice so far as ive never dealt with a case like this before so any more advice you can give would be appreciated!

 

That is going to be a pretty sum from a Skoda dealer. Last posts on here tend to be £5,500-£6,000 for main dealer engine replacement. So that will be some test of the warranty terms.

 

I think the two parties from whom you ought to expect something from either the dealer who sold the vehicle to you and/or the warranty provider. I don't believe is would be worth your wasted breath on Skoda UK now. Those are my opinions and experience of course.

 

As for a courtesy car, it does sound reasonable, especially if it is your only transport and/or required for work. Again the two angles you've got are the terms of your warranty small print (is any courtesy car provided in that). Or discussing with the dealer from whom you purchased. Possibly, there is a third, the Skoda dealer who will be carrying out the repair.

 

If the selling dealer plays hard ball and the warranty provider doesn't cover majority or all of your repair cost, given you are at 7 months, my understanding is you'll need some technical reports supporting the fact that the car had the design / manufacturing defect or fault at time of purchase to lodge a claim for cost enforcement.....

[The1stlegend]

The dealer i bought it from is trying to get Skoda to give some sort of good will gesture so will have to wait and see. Car has only just been loaded on a truck to be taken to Skoda themselves and i have to pay for the diagnostics myself.

 

I rang Auto Protect for the first time today and made them aware of what's happening. Seem unaware of any callouts for the saturday and Sunday that i did through them too. So might have to get evidence of those from the mechanics that were called out via auto protect if need be.

The woman i spoke to at auto protect also wasnt sure if I'd be covered if the process takes more than 14 days which probably isn't enough to get a replacement engine in time.

 

As for the courtesy car, Auto protect won't offer me anything either even though i need a car. All they suggested was to check if my insurance would give a courtesy car. At least a reimbursement for the train expenses would be nice. Not good enough if I'm meant to be going on holiday next week though! The main dealer probably wouldn't give me a free courtesy car but no harm in trying.

 

2 hours ago, TheClient said:

given you are at 7 months, my understanding is you'll need some technical reports supporting the fact that the car had the design / manufacturing defect or fault at time of purchase to lodge a claim for cost enforcement.....

 

I'm thinking the same thing but as far as I'm aware the VAG group have never admitted this fault exists though? Or do i just show the sticky thread with all of the tensioner problems? Would be nice to take on VAG and get compensation for everyone that's had this issue but there must be a reason no one's attempted it before.