Pedal box recommendations

[TerryMcK]

I know there are threads about this already but there appear to be a lot of pedal boxes. I think now it is about time to add one to my L&K 220 S3.

Not bothered about the one that integrates with a smart phone and happy to use a wired one. Now that the community has tried these out what do you recommend?

[penguin17]

DTUK, TMC and RaceChip all offer a throttle response product.  DTUK are well reviewed across most VAG forums though IMO their prices have started to get a bit silly.

 

RaceChip are well reviewed on this forum with a few members reporting good results on the TSI engines: 

 

https://www.racechip.co.uk/throttle-tuning/xlr.html

 

 

[nicknorman]

I’ve got the Racechip. Seems fine to me but I’ve never had a different one for comparison.

[freelunch]

DTUK PedalBox+ here. Easy to install if you take the "coin box" out first, then you can keep the control unit in the coin box. Works as advertised. I've got mine on the next to lowest setting, not even tried Sport. Banishes throttle lag. Worth every penny of £190.

[Speedman]

Agree with freelunch - I have the 190 DSG and have fitted the same pedalbox in the same way - seems very good to me.

[TerryMcK]

Great responses guys. I’ve now looked at all of those mentioned and the DTUK offering is the one I shall go for. Thanks  all 

[penguin17]

Ask them to beat the price offered by RaceChip! 

[Spacehopper7]

Sorry to hijack the thread but do you need to inform your insurance company about fitting a pedal box?

[penguin17]

26 minutes ago, Spacehopper7 said:

Sorry to hijack the thread but do you need to inform your insurance company about fitting a pedal box?

Should notify them of any change to vehicle IMO.

 

In theory the box doesn't add any more power or modify the ECU in anyway.  It's just altering some pedal angle signals on the fly, so shouldn't be classed as an engine mod.  Not all insurers and their underwriters are equal though  and some may not charge you anything more than an admin fee, others may charge admin fee + adjusted premium; some may refuse insurance altogether.  

[Sagalout]

I agree with penguin17. I asked DTUK and they advised it should be looked at as the same as changing the wheels by the insurers. i.e no change to performance and still to standard oem approved design parameters. 

 

As with wheels some treat it as a notifiable mod that costs others don't want to know but tell them as it is a material fact. Insurers love exclusions in the event of any claim 

[Ashmount]

On 16/01/2018 at 13:46, penguin17 said:

It's just altering some pedal angle signals on the fly, so shouldn't be classed as an engine mod.

Some thinking aloud from someone who shouldn't think aloud where cars are concerned...

On the lag issue, the common fix through VCDS/OBD eleven is to change to the Audi throttle coding, which I assume is a change of pedal angle signal or some such?

So...in Drive Mode when I change to 'Sport' and get the instant pedal response, isn't there somewhere in the bowels of the Skoda coding something which 'tells' the pedal to respond in the way it does and if so can't this be replicated in the VCDS long coding? I'm assuming that is what the re-map pedal box is doing, only for bespoke settings for the particular make of pedal and not just a tweak on Skoda settings.

I noticed in OBDeleven settings there are a range of changes to the throttle that can be made but might as well be in Urdu for all I understand.

Any enlightenment gratefully received 

[nicknorman]

I get the impression that the diesel and petrol engines are rather different - I found no noticeable difference when I changed the setting to Audi throttle, but others claim a significant difference - but they have diesels!

[freelunch]

I don't know how the VCDS throttle coding works, but suspect it must be something that alters an ECU setting that tricks the car into thinking it's an Audi instead of a Škoda. (?)

 

During installation, the DTUK PedalBox has a "tuning" process where it measures the travel of the throttle pedal and attenuates the signal to the ECU. You step on the pedal and gradually push it down to the passing stop, and release; then press it again to and past the passing detent, and release. So, the whole travel of the pedal is measured. Then, depending on which setting you choose on the hand control unit (City/Sport, etc.) the unit sends its amplified signal to the ECU. The ECU has not been modified, but the signal it receives from the throttle has been attenuated.

 

Does this make sense to any of you technical people out there? This is just my layman's grasp of the situation. 

 

The main benefit for me has been the total absence of any throttle lag. Mind, you still have to learn to cope with the stop/start cut out...

Edited 17 January, 2018 by freelunch
typo

[penguin17]

11 hours ago, Ashmount said:

Some thinking aloud from someone who shouldn't think aloud where cars are concerned...

On the lag issue, the common fix through VCDS/OBD eleven is to change to the Audi throttle coding, which I assume is a change of pedal angle signal or some such?

So...in Drive Mode when I change to 'Sport' and get the instant pedal response, isn't there somewhere in the bowels of the Skoda coding something which 'tells' the pedal to respond in the way it does and if so can't this be replicated in the VCDS long coding? I'm assuming that is what the re-map pedal box is doing, only for bespoke settings for the particular make of pedal and not just a tweak on Skoda settings.

I noticed in OBDeleven settings there are a range of changes to the throttle that can be made but might as well be in Urdu for all I understand.

Any enlightenment gratefully received 

Audi mod made no difference on mine, well nothing I could detect anyway...

 

A pedal box alters the signals to inform the ECU that more throttle is being applied than it actually is.  So when you push the pedal in a little, the pedal position/angle sensor will ordinarily think 10% throttle is being applied (I'm not sure what the relative pedal angle is, sorry) the pedal box will then (depending on it's setting) alter the signal; so whilst you're still only pushing in 10% the sensor thinks you're applying 40% throttle. It also will cut down on the overall time these calculations are made and the signals sent to the ECU.  

 

That's my understanding anyway.  Happy for anyone else to chip in and correct/expand. 

[penguin17]

11 hours ago, nicknorman said:

I get the impression that the diesel and petrol engines are rather different - I found no noticeable difference when I changed the setting to Audi throttle, but others claim a significant difference - but they have diesels!

TDI here and no difference at all with Audi mod. 

[nicknorman]

32 minutes ago, penguin17 said:

TDI here and no difference at all with Audi mod. 

Oh well so much for my theory! Anyway, whilst the Audi mod made no difference for me, the Racechip pedal box made a huge difference!

[Ashmount]

Thank you. 

Audi mode did make some difference but I much preferred the Skoda setting and changed back. The more I drive the car the less the lag issue is apparent. The car has obviously trained me very well!

@penguin17 and @freelunch your explanation makes a lot of sense - which brings me back to my musing about Sport setting in Driving Modes. Some coding somewhere must be telling the ECU to respond in the way it does to the pedal in each mode.

In OBDeleven I have the following settings (which I wouldn't dare touch). For the VCDS buffs can the sport pedal be replicated through coding without a pedal box? Or is it possible to recode the Skoda Drive mode throttle using these settings below.

• Commanded throttle actuator
• Relative accelerator pedal position
• Accelerator Pedal position (D-F)
• Absolute throttle positions ( B&C)
• Relative throttle position
• Throttle position

I suspect not...otherwise it would have been done by now.

[freelunch]

I wonder how much of the Sport Mode is down to the DSG gear box selecting lower gears and holding them longer? The throttle might then be down to driver perception rather than actual sensor changes?

[Howardv]

31 minutes ago, freelunch said:

I wonder how much of the Sport Mode is down to the DSG gear box selecting lower gears and holding them longer? The throttle might then be down to driver perception rather than actual sensor changes?

Sport Mode also give a slightly higer RPM at Idle. Personally I can't feel any difference in Throttle response when changing between sport and normal mode on my 280

Edited 18 January, 2018 by Howardv

[Ashmount]

2 minutes ago, Howardv said:

Personally I can't feel any difference in Throttle response when changing between sport and normal mode on my 280

Very obvious change in response in the 190 diesel. Lucky you!

[Howardv]

Just now, Ashmount said:

Very obvious change in response in the 190 diesel. Lucky you!

Or not  

[flyingpigvrs]

1 hour ago, Howardv said:

Sport Mode also give a slightly higer RPM at Idle. Personally I can't feel any difference in Throttle response when changing between sport and normal mode on my 280

Really?

 

I'm currently in a MK3 Octavia Vrs until my sportline is built and my lease ends. 

 

The difference between sport and normal in my car is like night and day. 

[Ashmount]

2 hours ago, freelunch said:

I wonder how much of the Sport Mode is down to the DSG gear box selecting lower gears and holding them longer? The throttle might then be down to driver perception rather than actual sensor changes?

 

Physically shifting the stick into 's' produces an instant reaction in the pedal and in terms of the DSG as you say, selects lower gears and holds them longer. Is selecting sport in on screen just the same I find the pedal reacts immediately but it doesn't hold the gears as long. Maybe that perception on my part, but convinced about the pedal .

[nicknorman]

Sport didn't seem to change the throttle response on my 280 tsi, just when the gear changes and the stationary in gear idle rpm.

[JackySi]

I still don't understand how pedal box works, if it amplifies signal its the same as if I'd floor the pedal my self? the difference is that you need to press it less? so how is lag reduced?
I don't get that at all... If pedal is just a controller (like a mouse on the PC) how does putting something between makes any actual difference to the car's maximum acceleration/lag at start of the acceleration? The limitation is still the ECU/Engine/Turbo... I'm not doubting you guys, I just wonder how it is working =). Its not like pedal it self has chip in it that would make acceleration "slower" - "laggy". 

I tried acceleration on my 190hp few times and I always feel lag even when totally flooring it from beginning (beyond "click" in the pedal). I have no pedal box, but I'm not sure if It would be worth to get one. I don't need more response from "small" pedal presses. I want only improvement when flooring it, so car jumps when I need it. I did have 150hp diesel (I had my car at service for 2 days) and it felt MUCH more responsive, but it had no DCC and actual acceleration was slower (9sec) compared to my 190hp at 8sec. But that's just feeling of DCC vs nondcc and smaller turbo (was my theory)

I feel some small controller like pedal box costs way too much (since it doesn't really do much, and u can get smart computer like Raspberry pi 3 for 35€ which is way smarter) and that's why I'm trying to justify its use and price =)