I was thinking along the standard air box K&N to fit my fabia diesel but decided against it in the end. I usually change the filter every service so I know its clean and have never had to worry about washing, drying and oiling it as whilst doing this, unless you kept the old filter, the car is off the road for the day. I never had the old filter long enough to let the performance [?] Suffer but didn't have the expense of fitting an expensive filter! I normally stump up for Bosch as I trust them to do most filtration and braking, along with electronic stuff, at least as good as from the manufacturer. I am not anti-K7N and have one fitted to my petrol Yaris but that did suffer a dirty sensor, which is not too hard to clean, thankfully. I didn't want this agro on my oil burner!

34 minutes ago, vborovic said:

With a proper remap, everything is possible

No... no it's not. The superb is like 1 million tons and normally a diesel. There is literally nothing you can do to make this a performance car. I don't mean figuratively nothing.. I mean... literally nothing.

Will you notice a remap? Of course! I had one on my pasat 2.0T petrol. I had the stage 2 which took it over 260 bhp. It made a huge difference. Was it a performance car? No. Of course not. It's a stupidly heavy estate with 2 liter engine.

6 minutes ago, vborovic said:

I never once mentioned there aren't downsides to any performance upgrades

But it's not a performance upgrade. It just isn't. I have run them for more than 20 years in my off road trucks. It sounds different.. kinda, but I can assure you, there is zero performance to be gained by changing the air filter or even with swapping out to a different air box.

On 1/23/2018 at 21:19, Offski said:

No it will not pay for it's self unless you are very good at cleaning and treating.

Or doing a bit of offroading / wading, working in a dusty environment.

If you live in a dusty environment, it will pay for itself many times over. It is a pain in butt to always clean it, but does save you money.

For normal street use.. I would say stick to stock because they filter significantly more particulates than K&N filters.

said it before the filtration is not up to the standard filter see my previous post and if thats not enough to convince you then look here

 

https://ac.els-cdn.com/S2212017316301475/1-s2.0-S2212017316301475-main.pdf?_tid=39c1fdae-b5da-4a5a-a33d-ea10660fa871&acdnat=1525545872_9743e39cd40b498f591eb5a9efac3dfc

 

wasting your money and killing your engine by allowing larger particles through do you have any idea what a microscopic particle does to the inside of the engine at near supersonic speeds?

It's really not my style to argue, so I'll leave it at that, but it seems to me only a few people here know how the 3.6 FSI engine works and what can be done with it ... I know of a Czech tuning team that managed to pull out more than 400 HP from it ... that's not what I'm trying to go for of course, but that's just to dismiss the theory of "... There is literally nothing you can do to make this a performance car. I don't mean figuratively nothing.. I mean... literally nothing." ... but, it is interesting how people easily get flamed up by using their judgment or experience as a global benchmark ... first of all, my car - if I want to blow it up, it will blow up ... secondly, I want to see for my self, with my money, on my car, what the dedicated K&N filter can do (or can't) ... do I have high expectations regarding it - no, I don't, but at least I'll have some comparison to the old filter and the parameters I've recorded with it ... and then we'll see where it will go from there ... regarding the particles and engine damage, I've read several studies like @cssukprovided, the difference is within the acceptable limits (IMO) and I don't think the car will go supersonic any time soon ...

1 minute ago, vborovic said:

It's really not my style to argue, so I'll leave it at that, but it seems to me only a few people here know how the 3.6 FSI engine works and what can be done with it ... I know of a Czech tuning team that managed to pull out more than 400 HP from it ... that's not what I'm trying to go for of course, but that's just to dismiss the theory of "... There is literally nothing you can do to make this a performance car. I don't mean figuratively nothing.. I mean... literally nothing." ... but, it is interesting how people easily get flamed up by using their judgment or experience as a global benchmark ... first of all, my car - if I want to blow it up, it will blow up ... secondly, I want to see for my self, with my money, on my car, what the dedicated K&N filter can do (or can't) ... do I have high expectations regarding it - no, I don't, but at least I'll have some comparison to the old filter and the parameters I've recorded with it ... and then we'll see where it will go from there ... regarding the particles and engine damage, I've read several studies like @cssukprovided, the difference is within the acceptable limits (IMO) and I don't think the car will go supersonic any time soon ...

 

Mate.. Maybe I have misread it, but your first post is literally asking people if it is worth it or not to get a K&N filter. People then tell you, no, for normal street use it's a waste of money at best and decreases the life the of your engine at worst. In the meantime, you have convinced yourself to pull the trigger and buy one. That's fine. Your money. Spend as your see it.

But, it's not really reasonable to ask peoples opinion if you are wasting your money or not and then get ****ed off because people tell you.. yeah.. your wasting your money and messing your engine up.

As they say, if you dont want an honest opinion, then dont ask the question.

Next time.. just say.. I am buying a K&N and I'll let you guys know how it works out.

@pablomax - No argument there, it is exactly as you've written, but check the post dates before you continue ... since I haven't received any usable and definite information in the meantime why the K&N is supposedly so bad (any you personally saying that you used it on other cars, for different gains) or that it is proven to kill the engine within 10.000 miles or whatever ... so yes, I've decided to buy one and see for my self what will happen. Happy now?

Like I wrote, I have used them for 20 years for my off road trucks. They are for sure not going to "kill" your engine. Maybe it will reduce the life of the engine if you are the type who doesn't change your oil at reasonable intervals. But, so long as the oil is clean, you will be fine.

 

17 hours ago, vborovic said:

@pablomax - No argument there, it is exactly as you've written, but check the post dates before you continue ... since I haven't received any usable and definite information in the meantime why the K&N is supposedly so bad (any you personally saying that you used it on other cars, for different gains) or that it is proven to kill the engine within 10.000 miles or whatever ... so yes, I've decided to buy one and see for my self what will happen. Happy now?

 

lol handbags at 20 paces listen if you dont want opinions why the hell did you bother to post you wanted subjective opinion AND maybe some proper research well i think i have posted both within this thread  including

 

https://ac.els-cdn.com/S2212017316301475/1-s2.0-S2212017316301475-main.pdf?_tid=39c1fdae-b5da-4a5a-a33d-ea10660fa871&acdnat=1525545872_9743e39cd40b498f591eb5a9efac3dfc

 

which is about as scientific as i guess anyone wants to get in terms of advantages in performance.

 

Like you said your engine frankly i couldnt give a rats ass if you do lunch it but dont ask the question and get all defensive when you dont like the answer

Everyone's a critic ... like I've said, it's not my style to argue, so I'm done with that ... the filter was received today (and as @pablomax pointed out, regular oil changes will occur on the car, so no problems there - recommended Castrol only).

 

For those of you who want to know, the filter for the 3.6 comes in a pretty big box (well, it's a big filter), and with the filter (which comes wrapped in a plastic bag, because it is pre-oiled) you get a filter box sticker notification that you don't need to change the contained filter in the air box (I guess that's for garages which would change whatever they find under the cover) and one more sticker for placing elsewhere on your car (I've posted a photo of what I've placed much earlier on the rear - that's not it - I've ordered a badge, those are not supplied), A few info/warranty papers, and that's that. The installation is, of course, a straight swap, no need to pull the big clamp on the air intake hose, because after unscrewing the screws holding the air filter box cover in place, you can easily lift it up and slightly rotate it to allow enough access for the old filter to be pulled out and the new filter to be placed in (and it's not that tight actually). But, if you prefer, you can unclamp the cover hose and completely remove the cover to allow for easier access. I did take a video from the same location with the old and the new K&N filter, regarding the sound - didn't have time to listen to both of them side-by-side to compare, but to be honest, no noticeable change in sound from the cabin (at least not up to the rev limit cut-out @ 3500 RPM when being stationary). If the engine sound changed due to the filter change, it will probably be heard on much higher RPMs, but since the 3.6 engine is quite loud as it is, you probably wouldn't notice anything extra, unless something was artificially rattling around, the filter change on this engine shouldn't make a noise upgrade/downgrade compared to the regular filter... which is good IMO, as I quite like the sound as it is ... at this point, I can't provide any extra info, since first I'll have to test the filter (and what it will do to the car's intake) while driving around (daily drives and some harder driving where possible).

When retaining the factory airbox and just changing the air filter element, the sound doesn't change. In fact, nothing perceptible changes.

 

Sound changes when you throw out the factory airbox and replace it with something like this:

Change puppet for air filter. 'It;s an air filter'. Just an air filter.

 

For the hell of it I looked up what filter element the 3.6 uses*. Turns out it's shared with the 2011 Audi RS3 among others. If it's enough for 335 bhp there, it's going to be more than enough for the 3.6 in the Superb.

 

* http://www.oemepc.com/tvn_result/search/tvn/1K0129620 (click on the 'RDW' tab to see the list of models here that use it)

9 hours ago, TLV said:

When retaining the factory airbox and just changing the air filter element, the sound doesn't change.

 

I decided to write that down for other to know of the immediate effects (if any).

 

8 hours ago, Offski said:

Just an air filter

 

I never said it was an oil filter (although it is oiled) ...

 

8 hours ago, chimaera said:

Turns out it's shared with the 2011 Audi RS3 among others. If it's enough for 335 bhp there, it's going to be more than enough for the 3.6 in the Superb.

 

That's correct, the car will have to keep its mouth shut to prevent more air in that necessary ...

Oiled. 

So beware of that and take care when cleaning & re-oiling to get value out of having paid maybe the price of 3 standard air filters for this longer life one.

You notice when cleaning is required usually as the performance / efficiency drops and the fuel consumption increases.

 

My son wondered why the fuel consumption was so bad when he had a K&N performance filter in and just for a year or so.

Never bothered checking it obviously.

Edited 9 May, 20188 yr by Offski

Did my homework, know how to maintain it ... and the longer life of the filter wasn't what I was going for, but the 3x higher price over the regular air filter is on the mark ... but, that's what Iv'e paid for it, discounts and all - the regular price over here would be closer to 7-8 times the regular air filter ... I wouldn't have bought it otherwise if not for the really small price tag and a limited quantity available

As said earlier by various, they have their place, dusty / wet environment, modified intakes etc.  Where paper filters can just be a big no no where H2o might be an issue, wading, motorsports etc.

The risk is the expense of killing a MAF when cleaning and re-oiling. 

 

 

Edited 9 May, 20188 yr by Offski

I fitted a K & N panel filter to a Golf GTi in 1990 (first service). I cleaned and oiled it every 10,000 miles and did 113,000 miles in the car. Did it make the car faster, of course not but over those miles it saved me quite a sum of money over replacing the filter every 10,000 miles.

 

I fitted K & N's to another of our cars in 1993. Cleaned and oiled every year and they are still on it in perfect condition, 25 years later.

That is why Fleet / Plant operators and even just motorists might buy them.

£10 or so for the cleaning / recharging (oiling) kit and you are sorted.

Others just pay £15 or so and replace a air filter with an new one as required. KISS. (saves any argument or dispute come a warranty claim...)

 

Skoda Dealerships might not even check them, so not replace them, @ 40,000 or even 60,000 miles but still take your cash money.

http://skoda.co.uk/finance-and-offers/service-and-maintenance/simply-fixed 

Edited 9 May, 20188 yr by Offski

2 minutes ago, Offski said:

Skoda Dealerships might not even check them, so not replace them, @ 40,000 or even 60,000 miles but still take your cash money.

 

"Simply Fixed - Simply Clever" ...

I don't want to upset anyones' boat here but the older ford and vauxhall engined Caterhams run K&N filters on twin 40's as standard and have done since the early 70's. Why? They are good bits of kit for a myriad of reasons, performance and other. Keeping crap out whilst allowing air in is the compromise that K&N's (and green and others...) are good at.

 

One of the first things the Swiss Gendarme do on their traffic cars, re-map, upgrade suspension and oil coolers, de-locking etc. aside, is they fit either K&N or Green filters to the cars. I've been to the garages and seen the pile of them waiting to go in the (mainly) Skoda Superb 3.6's and Octavia VRS's, Opels and Subarus.

Must be something in it. Certainly on petrol engined cars (no idea about diesels).

 

Dave

 

31 minutes ago, Wile7 said:

I don't want to upset anyones' boat here but the older ford and vauxhall engined Caterhams run K&N filters on twin 40's as standard and have done since the early 70's. Why? They are good bits of kit for a myriad of reasons, performance and other. Keeping crap out whilst allowing air in is the compromise that K&N's (and green and others...) are good at.

 

One of the first things the Swiss Gendarme do on their traffic cars, re-map, upgrade suspension and oil coolers, de-locking etc. aside, is they fit either K&N or Green filters to the cars. I've been to the garages and seen the pile of them waiting to go in the (mainly) Skoda Superb 3.6's and Octavia VRS's, Opels and Subarus.

Must be something in it. Certainly on petrol engined cars (no idea about diesels).

 

Dave

 

If they're increasing performance above standard, they may run into the airflow limits of the standard air filter and need to upgrade to something that flows more air. An oiled filter like the K&N is a quick option that can drop into the existing air intake. For cars that live short hard lives, the reliability penalty doesn't matter so much.

 

My point on the sizing of filters on VAG cars stands: in general, the stock paper filter is oversized for the car's performance and putting something more free-flowing in will not improve performance. Add that to the hassle of cleaning and oiling the filter regularly, the paper filter makes more sense: stick one in every 15000 km and forget about it until next time. Cost is not a sensible argument when the cost of the paper filter breaks down to small fractions of a cent/penny/centime/whatever per mile or km between service intervals.

Wile7,  there is something in it.  Oiled filters good in wet conditions. 

& the EU Authorities so wasteful that K&N and Green filters likely get binned not cleaned.

 

If you want to see crazy Police Vehicle procurement and mods and muppets try and see a UK programme being shown on keeping Cheshire Police on the road. 'Cop Car Workshop'.

Even providing suitable vehicles to take them offroad. Or not, modifying totally unsuitable ones that those waiting on them rejected.

 

(Police Scotland in Aberdeen have Police Vehicles on the road with no MOT's and lack of record of when last maintained / inspected, as do Aberdeen Council.)

 

 

Edited 9 May, 20188 yr by Offski

I don't see why the people are so hung up on the financial side of the filter (its maintenance or price for replacing regular ones), like that's the only benefit or gain (true, others need to be explored or proven first) ... if the filter was at its regular price, I wouldn't go for it, but I've managed to buy it very cheap, and decided to see how it will do. If people still want to chew me around for that (once again, my car, my money, my experiment and no specific expectations at this point), feel free to keep the forum clean and remove the related posts, because the arguments here lead to nowhere

 

1 minute ago, Offski said:

& the EU Authorities so wasteful that K&N and Green filters likely get binned not cleaned

 

Since you'll be out soon, I don't think you'll be very bothered by that anymore ... :P