EV real world range and cost to charge

[skidpan]

4 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Winter diesel and cold temperature lowers my Octavia from 550+ miles of range to less than 450 miles.

 

We drove diesels from 1996 to 2013 and for tax purposes I kept accurate records over that period.

 

Winter diesel and cold temperatures did affect my mpg, on all the cars it was about a 4% drop. On a 12 gallon tank normally doing about 50 mpg that would drop the range from 600 miles to 576 miles.

 

But my car use was pretty much identical all year round. Many car owners use their cars less in winter for longer trips and that will affect your range far more than the temperatures and winter diesel. Take our Kia Ceed as an example. Normally it would do about 52 mpg over a 12 gallon tank, range 624  miles. In late 2010 the weather was so bad for several weeks and due to an accident the wife was in hospital, this resulted in the car only being used locally. The mpg dropped to about 40 mpg lowering the range to 480 miles. This had noting to do with the temps and winter diesel. 

[Ootohere]

Loads of used ZOE or kangoo, leaf etc in Scotland. Much cheapness.    Winter diesel 3 fill ups this last couple of weeks and more range per tank again doing same trips, miles just as last winter.  Lovely dry cold air mostly.   Sadly peeing down for past 24 hours.  Winter comes in all flavours. 

Edited 7 November, 2018 by Offski

[wyx087]

I don't think winter diesel has started yet....... according to Wikipedia, it's 15th November.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_diesel_fuel#United_Kingdom

 

4% drop seems low. I've found these engines don't engage stop/start as often in cold temperature, it also takes a while to warm up when driven in city traffic. I've noticed my Octavia 3 diesel can go up to 600 miles on a very good tank of fuel in not too hot summer, not filling up until done 550 miles, warning light still not lit. Whereas in winter I'd fill up not much beyond 400 miles. There may be another 50+ miles left, but being winter where the engine needs to be running for heating I don't want to take chances.

 

In my EV however, I always leave house with full charge. So I don't take as much notice on the vehicle's range.

[shyVRS245]

Still remember the first time I saw a Nissan Leaf. We were celebrating the wife's birthday in Portugal and took a day trip to Lisbon. Nice place but lots of locals thinking we wanted to buy some drugs rather than a new counterfeit handbag (plenty of markets to chose from) for SWMBO. Anyway back to the point nearly got run over by one of the earliest Leaf's on the road, this was June 2011. Had to explain to the startled wife that we could have made history for being the first fatal RTA with a glorified milk float. Guess they make the new ones a bit noisier to avoid such mishaps occuring now!

[skidpan]

14 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

4% drop seems low.

 

Looking at the figures I have at hand:

 

Ford C-Max 1.6 TDCi April to November 2008 49.15 mpg November to March 2009 46.87 mpg, 4.86% difference

 

BMW 118D April to November 2010 48.37 mpg November to March 2011 46.32, 4.24% difference

 

Kia Ceed CRDi April to November 2012 52.23 mpg November to March 2013 50.80 mpg, 2.8% difference

 

Average drop for those 3 cars in 3 random years was 3.966%, pretty much spot on my 4% rounded guess.

 

For the record the C-Max did not have a DPF or stop/start wheras the BMW and Kia had both. The Stop/start in the BMW normally stopped working reliably mid November and woke up again mid February. The stop/start in the Kia did not work to normal rules, in truth it worked very little. In the real world stop/start save very little since even in the BMW with the better system it stopped working after 4 stops in one queue and thus saved very little diesel.

 

Edited 7 November, 2018 by skidpan

[shyVRS245]

2 minutes ago, skidpan said:

 

Looking at the figures I have at hand:

 

Ford C-Max 1.6 TDCi April to November 2008 49.15 mpg November to March 2009 46.87 mpg, 4.86% difference

 

BMW 118D April to November 2010 48.37 mpg November to March 2011 46.32, 4.24% difference

 

Kia Ceed CRDi April to November 2012 52.23 mpg November to March 2013 50.80 mpg, 2.8% difference

 

Average drop for those 3 cars in 3 random years was 3.966%, pretty much spot on my 4% rounded guess.

 

 

 

That must have involved a good workout for your calculator and people think I need another hobby apart from working out my fuel consumption to 2 decimal places.

[skidpan]

1 minute ago, shyVRS245 said:

That must have involved a good workout for your calculator and people think I need another hobby apart from working out my fuel consumption to 2 decimal places.

 

Its all on a spreadsheet, simply add another sheet when we swap cars. Simply swipe the cells and hey presto.

[shyVRS245]

1 minute ago, skidpan said:

 

Its all on a spreadsheet, simply add another sheet when we swap cars. Simply swipe the cells and hey presto.

The Skoda way then SIMPLY CLEVER to quote OFFSKI.

[Aspman]

I lose about 4mpg on the BMW in winter so just over 10%.

 

That's probably about right for every car I've ever owned. They all use more fuel in Winter.

[PetrolDave]

3 hours ago, cheshire_cat said:

well north devon is a bit of a charging desert

That's so true, went shopping in nearest town today. In 3 car parks the total number of charging points was .........zero.

[Ootohere]

@wyx087 I can guarantee you that winter spec diesel and petrol was being delivered oop north from mid October and that is oop north UK including some of the north of England regardless of what Wikipedia says.  I have just achieved 700 miles again and just needed 60 litres to brim again.  September and early October that was 630 miles or so for the same fuel use doing identical journeys.  

[shyVRS245]

2 hours ago, Offski said:

@wyx087 I can guarantee you that winter spec diesel and petrol was being delivered oop north from mid October and that is oop north UK including some of the north of England regardless of what Wikipedia says.  I have just achieved 700 miles again and just needed 60 litres to brim again.  September and early October that was 630 miles or so for the same fuel use doing identical journeys.  

Was the 630 mile tank when you got caught SPEEDING?

[Ootohere]

That was running Hiperflow 250 at £78 for 25 litres.

[shyVRS245]

2 minutes ago, Offski said:

That was running Hiperflow 250 at £78 for 25 litres.

Chap behind me put £103 of diesel in a Audi saloon today at the local Shell garage. My £40 of petrol seemed a bit of a bargain in comparison.

[Russ77]

8 hours ago, Offski said:

EV's & another positive, do they get stolen, do people carry much in them...

and like Skoda's do thieves get put off robbing the home as know that not likely much to take in there,.

My friend/colleague I mentioned earlier..... it was his Zoe they stole......

[KenONeill]

13 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

Chap behind me put £103 of diesel in a Audi saloon today

Would that be one of the big Audis with the 20 gallon tanks?

[wyx087]

I was just updating my (very similar) spreadsheet. I think this is pretty representative of general car ownership.

 

For an old Mercedes but high mileage annual: average £5,643.37 annually

% is fuel 38%   < spent a lot fuelling this up, about 18k miles annually.

% is servicing and tax 15%

% is depreciation 22%

% is insurance 25%  < expensive insurance!

 

For a newer car with lower than average mileage: £4,269.83 annually

% is fuel 20%

% is servicing and tax 21%

% is depreciation 43%

% is insurance 16%

 

For EV with average mileage : £2,853.28 annually

% is fuel 9%

% is servicing and tax 7%

% is depreciation 60%  < based on higher PCP payments rather than real world sold examples

% is insurance 25%

 

Old Merc was doing 18k, I had it from 8 years old to 11 years and a bit. Bought for £5500 IIRC sold for £1000 as trade-in (Nissan scheme also added £1000 deposit contribution for my trade-in of old diesel)
Skoda Octavia is averaging 8k, I bought it when it was almost 4 years old. 1.5 years of ownership so far. Bought for £8800, estimated value now is £6500.
Nissan Leaf EV did 10k, I bought it end of October 2017 when it was just under 3 years old, so exactly 1 year now. Bought for trade-in of old Merc + £114 per month PCP, total I'll pay for Leaf would be £9100.

 

There's 6 new tyres across the last two cars and the data isn't averaged out to full tyre life, also the middle one had £670 worth of extra maintenance work done on it over 1.5 years that is supposed to average out over 4-5 years. But you can get the idea that you can buy more expensive EV because there's massive savings elsewhere.

 

For example, if I were to drive 18k in an EV, like the old Merc, spending the same as old Merc: average £5,643.37 annually

fuel £550

servicing and tax £400

depreciation £3700  -> £300 per month car!

insurance £1000 (£700 for Skoda and £700 for Leaf, I live in expensive post code)

Whereas I am no where near able to afford a £300pm car if I have to pay for fossil fuel at the same time. But electric propulsion allows people to jump from 10 year old car to a brand new one. You just have to do the sums.

 

Back in early 2017, late 2016, before I bought Skoda, BMW was doing 0% finance lease on i3 for £279, or £299 for i3 REx. I was really tempted. But the strange and expensive tyres was off putting and wife vetoed it due to rear space.

Car ownership sums should be across EVERYTHING. You can't only look at lease/PCP per month price of a car and ignore the savings elsewhere

[Ootohere]

@KenONeill   I think it was maybe a famous driver of a fast Audi now going over to derv..

 

 

This morning i never broke any speed limits, just on way to beating my range out of 63 litres of diesel record.

Winter diesel is just magic stuff IMO. 

Edited 8 November, 2018 by Offski

[Russ77]

On 07/11/2018 at 20:41, Russ77 said:

My friend/colleague I mentioned earlier..... it was his Zoe they stole......

 

For anyone who may be remotely interested......  on the same night the Zoe got stolen, another 3 cars in my and surrounding streets also got taken.

The thieves parked the Zoe and a corsa in a road around 400m away from their rightful owners.  According to the police they do this in case they have trackers.  If they're still there after a few days they come and take them away.

Little did they know both victims have relatives living in that road who phoned up asking why their cars were parked there 

[Ootohere]

A vid from last year. But i had never seen this.

 

 

[Ootohere]

I went shopping yesterday with the serious intention of ordering an EV or Petrol Hybrid and then thought life is too short and went with a Diesel Mercedes B-Class 7 speed auto 

which currently has a build time expecting to be over 6 months.   

So that order might change if it will be much longer than that and maybe a Petrol Hybrid might yet be on the cards.

 

Certainly not going for an EV.    When i want to go camping i will go in a Camper Van.

 

 

 

 

[lol-lol]

35 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

I went shopping yesterday with the serious intention of ordering an EV or Petrol Hybrid and then thought life is too short and went with a Diesel Mercedes B-Class 7 speed auto 

which currently has a build time expecting to be over 6 months.   

So that order might change if it will be much longer than that and maybe a Petrol Hybrid might yet be on the cards.

 

Certainly not going for an EV.    When i want to go camping i will go in a Camper Van.

 

In the small print of the order, if there is 10% car duty for cars from Europe after 29th of March, are you liable to pay for that or is that out of their margin ?

 

Are you going for one that uses the Renault diesel engine and is the 7 speed auto Merc own or do they use the Renault EDC box matched to the engine ??

 

[Ootohere]

The one with lovely leather interior and steering wheel and easy in and out. No hand brake or gear shifter (in the middle of the car)

So easy start / go / stop / park & not much to play with other than the gear selector on a stalk a bit like column shift and paddles.

 

As to the engine and gearbox that is for Mercedes to worry about, or their technicians i just want to work the accelerator and the brake and put in the fuel when it gets towards empty.

Edited 6 January, 2019 by Skoffski

[lol-lol]

5 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

The one with lovely leather interior and steering wheel and easy in and out. No hand brake or gear shifter (in the middle of the car)

So easy start / go / stop / park & not much to play with other than the gear selector on a stalk a bit like column shift and paddles.

 

As to the engine and gearbox that is for Mercedes to worry about, or their technicians i just want to work the accelerator and the brake and put in the fuel when it gets towards empty.

 

So if Merc asked for an extra couple of grand you would cancel the order?

 

I expect car companies will get as much stock in before Brexit but cars that arrive after that they may need to rethink pricing etc.  At least Brexit occurs neatly between Q1 and Q2.

[Ootohere]

Leased. 

 Price not really of interest.  Easy in and easy out and comfy seat and steering wheel is all that matters, and not many visits to fuel up.