EV real world range and cost to charge

[KenONeill]

52 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

North Coast 500 in my Skoda diesel, I see there's only 2 stations along the way (using their interactive map), so I'd have to plan my trip around the few available petrol stations.

Then you're in no position to criticise anyone else's driving style! Fill up at the start, and one splash and dash any time after 100 miles, and I'd be sorted for the entire route with the Octy mk1 11 gallon tank; with my previous Xantia I could have done the route, and then got half-way round a second lap.

 

Also, is stopping for 10 minutes once really a big issue? Compared with (since you picked the route) having to go cross-country to Lairg 3 or 4 times.

[Ootohere]

http://visitscotland.com/blog/travel/swc300-road-trip

better charging network needed here.  Ferry ports etc etc.  

 

 

@wyx087Temp Power cuts are maybe not an issue.

When Arran was down for a few days that was not 'temp',  when Pitlochry was down just a few years back that was an issue.

The thing with the unexpected is you can predict that sometime it will happen.

 

Not the NC500 Route, just a popular tourist destination with great driving roads.

 

 

Edited 10 January, 2019 by Skoffski

[wyx087]

25 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Then you're in no position to criticise anyone else's driving style! Fill up at the start, and one splash and dash any time after 100 miles, and I'd be sorted for the entire route with the Octy mk1 11 gallon tank; with my previous Xantia I could have done the route, and then got half-way round a second lap.

 

Also, is stopping for 10 minutes once really a big issue? Compared with (since you picked the route) having to go cross-country to Lairg 3 or 4 times.

Same idea with driving an EV. You'd start with full 200+ miles range, pit-stop twice along the way and the trip will be done.  But a lot of motoring journalists don't do this, they start half empty and complain when they run out of juice without planning.

 

The issue you raised was "having to plan every trip around the few available charging points". I was simply pointing out you can be in the same situation driving an ICE car via an example.

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Same idea with driving an EV. You'd start with full 200+ miles range, pit-stop twice along the way and the trip will be done.  But a lot of motoring journalists don't do this, they start half empty and complain when they run out of juice without planning.

 

The issue you raised was "having to plan every trip around the few available charging points". I was simply pointing out you can be in the same situation driving an ICE car via an example.

Your opinion is invalid, since you've already admitted to not reading the article.

[wyx087]

34 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Your opinion is invalid, since you've already admitted to not reading the article.

20 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Can I not have a view on traditional motor journalists reviewing EV's in general?

 

Sorry, your highness.

[Ootohere]

Not EV but Plug in Hybrid. 

 

 

[threadbear]

I work at a railway station with nigh on 800 parking places with no charging points. (Car Park is run by Indigo on behalf of train operator). I work nights and this time of year, the car frequently needs defrosting. How do you that with an EV? I don’t have off road parking at home either for charging and neither do 90% of homes in my area. Even if I wanted an EV I can’t see it being a practical solution. 

[wyx087]

3 minutes ago, threadbear said:

I work at a railway station with nigh on 800 parking places with no charging points. (Car Park is run by Indigo on behalf of train operator). I work nights and this time of year, the car frequently needs defrosting. How do you that with an EV?

All EV have pre-heating timer, a lot of EV's like Leaf and Tesla have app remote control. You can use those to preheat the car before you get to the car. Even really thick frost will melt within 10min, it will drain about 2 miles of range (3kW heater running 10min, assumed vehicle efficiency at 4 mi/kWh). You'll still need to wipe away the snow though, but snow doesn't stick, just need to keep a soft brush broom in the car.

 

6 minutes ago, threadbear said:

I don’t have off road parking at home either for charging and neither do 90% of homes in my area. Even if I wanted an EV I can’t see it being a practical solution. 

This is your biggest barrier to EV.

 

The government's EV/autonomous bill to require builders putting in cabling for charger at new houses is not enough. There should be requirement to have charger at every allocated parking location for all new flat and houses.

[Ootohere]

I have rethought my needs and use.

So waiting to get my order in for a e-Niro as 250 miles and quick charging will suit me now for much of my journeys.

I can get a bike in the back with wheels off and a hanging bike rack on the rear. I will carry a bike to use while the car charges...

Unfortunately as no tow bar can be fitted for towing, and fitting and wiring for a bike rack is an issue for carrying E-Bikes,

so i will need to be running something else that will be a diesel.

[PetrolDave]

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

The government's EV/autonomous bill to require builders putting in cabling for charger at new houses is not enough. There should be requirement to have charger at every allocated parking location for all new flat and houses.

Even that is no help for the majority of houses/flats which are not new builds... the vast majority of the housing stock will remain "pre-EV" for probably several hundred years.

[Ootohere]

All my life as far as i can remember, so from about 5 years old there has been advertised on the telly 'Insulate your home', Grants to Insulate your home'.

Old people die of cold in winter etc.

 

So more than 5 decades later there is still 'Insulate your homes'   Fuel Poverty, Old People Die etc.

 

Well 40-or 50 years ago they were younger and should have Insulated their homes, or bought or rented Insulated homes, or the Government or Council should 

have not allowed poorly insulated homes to be built, or rubbish 'Insulating' by Schemes etc.

 

So England and EV Charging will be like Home Insulation, money for old rope for 'Business's' and Grant Aided Schemes and lots of talk and little much happening.

Lets see how Tesco & VW get on with the chargers they are planning.

 

First off lets see how the 4 Government in the UK get on with Park & Ride and charging hubs.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/452464-england-ev-charging-points-a-proposal

 

 

[KenONeill]

28 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

Well 40-or 50 years ago they were younger and should have Insulated their homes, or bought or rented Insulated homes, or the Government or Council should 

have not allowed poorly insulated homes to be built, or rubbish 'Insulating' by Schemes etc.

The trouble with that argument is that a "well insulated home" is a moving target. Since I moved up here, into a home with loft insulation, there have been 2 "increase your loft insulation for free" campaigns, and I now have about 9" of fibrewool in the loft space!

[Ootohere]

Yes, 

but what gets me is all that insulation that was fitted and is now being removed and new stuff put in at billions of expense nationwide.

Really though it is the message that old homes / properties need insulated.  That cold kills old people.

 

Well EV's need charging facilities.  

[wyx087]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/12/electric-cars-already-cheaper-own-run-study

 

EV are already cheapest to own. One study by ICCT on cost of ownership over 4 years in 5 EU countries show EV is cheapest to own in all 5 countries. A separate report by Leeds Uni published in 2017 also came to the same conclusion.

 

At the same time, ICCT study suggests PHEV is most expensive to own.

 

Of course, it does point out:

Quote

Sandra Wappelhorst, from the ICCT, said: “Most trips are within an electric vehicle’s range, and it is the battery electric vehicle that turns out to be the most cost effective over four years. But if you’re a country doctor, who might have to respond to emergency calls at odd hours in odd places, you’ll have to evaluate a battery electric car differently to a London surgeon.”

 

Cheap to run AND instant torque response, PLUS Rolls-like quiet acceleration.

[xman]

At our ASDA superstore yesterday, a Corsa and a Picanto parked in the 2 charging bays they have.

 

Bet that happens a lot.

[shyVRS245]

10 minutes ago, xman said:

At our ASDA superstore yesterday, a Corsa and a Picanto parked in the 2 charging bays they have.

 

Bet that happens a lot.

Technically they are both battery operated vehicles. Nissan Leaf is in the top 35 worst depreciating vehicles you can buy, unless you buy a secondhand one of course and let someone else take the hit.

[wyx087]

21 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Nissan Leaf is in the top 35 worst depreciating vehicles you can buy, unless you buy a secondhand one of course and let someone else take the hit.

The depreciation meter only works on RRP. It doesn't take into account of government grant or dealer discounts.

 

A straw pool on SpeakEV shows most people didn't pay more than £20 for battery owned Zoe i 40kWh. That's almost 30% discount off RRP straight away. It's easy to read headlines and believe it without looking further, but as the saying goes, the devil is in the details.

[xman]

6 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

 

A straw pool on SpeakEV shows most people didn't pay more than £20 for battery owned Zoe i 40kWh. 

 

Didn't think they were that cheap! Do they come fully charged for £20? Might consider one at that price....

[shyVRS245]

14 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

The depreciation meter only works on RRP. It doesn't take into account of government grant or dealer discounts.

 

A straw pool on SpeakEV shows most people didn't pay more than £20 for battery owned Zoe i 40kWh. That's almost 30% discount off RRP straight away. It's easy to read headlines and believe it without looking further, but as the saying goes, the devil is in the details.

The survey I refer to was done in America not the UK so unsure whether yanks get grants to buy an EV.

[PetrolDave]

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

 

 

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Sandra Wappelhorst, from the ICCT, said: “Most trips are within an electric vehicle’s range, and it is the battery electric vehicle that turns out to be the most cost effective over four years. But if you’re a country doctor, who might have to respond to emergency calls at odd hours in odd places, you’ll have to evaluate a battery electric car differently to a London surgeon.”

For those of us who live "out in the sticks" the section I have made bold is true for most people not just doctors.

[wyx087]

16 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

The survey I refer to was done in America not the UK so unsure whether yanks get grants to buy an EV.

I believe they get tax credit which is more than our grant. But you can be damn sure depreciation calculations don't include that.

 

16 hours ago, xman said:

 

Didn't think they were that cheap! Do they come fully charged for £20? Might consider one at that price....

Haha, good spot. I forgot the grand k.

[Ootohere]

Getting over 200 miles per charge whatever the weather and with a fully loaded car can be the big deal breaker for some.

Leased Car or Keeper, Tax Breaks or not, home or work charging points, or just using public chargers obviously matters.

Location location location matters so maybe country living is better than for Urban living...

(Rural Doctors and call outs in the UK maybe something of a wish and a Dream, 2019 now and not the 1950's and Morris Minors not starting...)

Funnily Vets in rural areas might use EV's. Plug in Hybrids etc, obviously with the correct tyres fitted. 

 

 

 

 

[cheshire_cat]

23 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

 

For those of us who live "out in the sticks" the section I have made bold is true for most people not just doctors.

but North Devon is a public charging desert if your away from home

[PetrolDave]

45 minutes ago, cheshire_cat said:

but North Devon is a public charging desert if your away from home

Exactly my point - there are no charging points at any of the supermarkets or public car parks in North Devon (not any of the ones we visit anyway...)

Edited 13 February, 2019 by PetrolDave

[Ootohere]

England gets the UK Government that England votes for.

If there is a poor infrastructure in the South of England for some reason like lack of money from the Treasury or because local authorities have other priorities that will be that then.

 

Such is life.  

 

Producing more Bio-diesel will be the answer then, maybe produced from apples or potatoes.  

Good growing land if the population is so sparse and for the un-employed work opportunities.

& More use of the Solar Power generations and producing hydrogen.

 

 

Edited 13 February, 2019 by Skoffski