BMW are managing it so much better than the VW Group who were too slow getting the tech right and have had to use the likes of MG Motors to assist them getting the emissions target.

http://www.thedriven.io/2021/12/14/nio-and-xpeng-join-carbon-pool-to-help-vw-meet-eu-emissions-target

 

BMW are shifting lots of hybrids and EV's and 3 cylinder petrols (diesels 3 cylinder retired...EDIT)

http://www.onlineev.com/bmw-beats-eu-co2-emissions-target-boosted-by-higher-ev-demand

 

Edited 5 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

BMW have come up with some smart solutions to chip problems. For instance, my BMW doesn't currently have Android Auto/Apple Car play because BMW sourced chips away from their regular supplier (due to shortages) but they made sure the replacement could eventually be updated to provide this. I've just heard that customers cars are now being updated, some OTA and some needing a dealer visit. First world problem, but it avoided BMW having to pay £500 compensation to its customers (that was the agreed amount with its dealers). 

I heard a Multi Millionaire Tory donor on the radio today. Alasdair Locke.

 

I had heard of him before from his interests in Oil and filling stations and distilleries but i never knew who the Filling stations were, whee or who they were involved with or the name of the company.

 

He said they are going to be the biggest EV charging providers in the UK. 

Motor Fuel Group.   MFG. 

 

https://www.motorfuelgroup.com/mfg-ev-power-change-in-tariff

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

The chargers in the video went live last week.

MfG are currently subject to a takeover offer....

https://news.sky.com/story/abu-dhabi-state-oil-giant-weighs-5bn-bid-for-motor-fuel-group-12626882

That'll make that tory doner much richer....

^^^ Thanks. I just spotted the news article when looking for more about them. 

 

There are lots of Tory Donors involved with EV's now including EV's and Subscription. 

 

Hard not to get political, but the UK Government supposedly wanted to take back control and have fuel security.

Supposedly reducing the importation of oil and gas.

Allowing a monopoly over EV charging in the UK into the hands of overseas investors and owners will be something they will be fine with. 

 

Edited 7 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

On 04/06/2022 at 18:37, Lady Elanore said:

This opened my eyes a little further. EVs appear to be worse than I thought at contributing to global warming! Assuming this is all true, of course.

 

We should all be buying V8s is what I took from this TED talk. Oh and that hybrids are probably the best current solution! 

 

 

 

Excellent counter video, unlike the TEDx talk, this one contains many data source references, just as a factual based video should be.

This video talks about how the TEDx speaker has a vested interest in fossil fuel, how the speaker appeals to common believes built up by other fossil fuel FUD, and also looked at the horrible stats presented in the TEDx talk.

 

Someone works at institute for fossil fuel and getting paid by the fossil fuel giants is giving talks to convince you to continue relying on that stuff?  Hum....

2020's version of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt

 

The thing about hybrids that stagger me is the complexity of the beast. It really does seem to have the regular complexity of a petrol engine car, plus that of an EV and also the compromises it makes having two different systems working independently, sympathetically, assisting each other and also filling in the compromises, such as in EV mode the 12V batteries aren't charged! But it does get around range anxiety for people such as myself who do bigger mileage and pretty long runs. 

40 minutes ago, Lady Elanore said:

The thing about hybrids that stagger me is the complexity of the beast. It really does seem to have the regular complexity of a petrol engine car, plus that of an EV and also the compromises it makes having two different systems working independently, sympathetically, assisting each other and also filling in the compromises, such as in EV mode the 12V batteries aren't charged! But it does get around range anxiety for people such as myself who do bigger mileage and pretty long runs. 

 

Complexity relates in to much higher buy price.  Cars like the BMW 330e have been successful due to their low company car tax but it does not stir the soul I find and plugging in just to get 25-30 miles of range is a bit sad IMO. The 545e sounds like more of a nice to drive motor, again quite sad EV range which many would struggle to push themselves to plug the car in at night and then unplug in the morning to save less than a fiver.  

 

Pure EV cars with longer range are being launched at several per quarter, Merc seem to have the high ground at the moment and these cars seem to have charging at 200 kWh, at least for now until electricity possibly needs to be rationed both in terms of flow rate and even amount, as might diesel, due to the Ukraine conflict continuing and The West decision to do the right thing and phase out Russian hydro-carbon supply.

 

Super pleased with the 260 mile range of the Zoe but then my clients are usually in large corporate buildings which increasingly have charge points and "substainability" agendas as part of their corporate profit. As daughter no1 tells me very different working in an outside broadcast scenario !!   

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars-vans/108345/top-10-longest-range-electric-cars-2022

Which 2022 EV has the longest range?

1. Mercedes EQS - 485 miles. The longest-range electric car currently on sale is also one of the newest: the Mercedes EQS.
2. Mercedes EQE - 410 miles. ...
3. Tesla Model S - 405 miles. ...
4. BMW iX - 380 miles. ...
5. Ford Mustang Mach-E - 379 miles. ...
6. BMW i4 - 367 miles. ...
7. Tesla Model 3 - 360 miles. ...
8. Tesla Model X - 360 miles. ...

 

I've been saying that I'll wait till an EV drops to a reasonable (to me) sum before I spend the money on it... could be waiting a while as even though the MG5 starts at £28,195... that's about £26,195 more than I can or wish to spend on a car.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

Complexity relates in to much higher buy price.  Cars like the BMW 330e have been successful due to their low company car tax but it does not stir the soul I find and plugging in just to get 25-30 miles of range is a bit sad IMO. The 545e sounds like more of a nice to drive motor, again quite sad EV range which many would struggle to push themselves to plug the car in at night and then unplug in the morning to save less than a fiver.  

 

Pure EV cars with longer range are being launched at several per quarter, Merc seem to have the high ground at the moment and these cars seem to have charging at 200 kWh, at least for now until electricity possibly needs to be rationed both in terms of flow rate and even amount, as might diesel, due to the Ukraine conflict continuing and The West decision to do the right thing and phase out Russian hydro-carbon supply.

 

Super pleased with the 260 mile range of the Zoe but then my clients are usually in large corporate buildings which increasingly have charge points and "substainability" agendas as part of their corporate profit. As daughter no1 tells me very different working in an outside broadcast scenario !!   

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars-vans/108345/top-10-longest-range-electric-cars-2022

Which 2022 EV has the longest range?

1. Mercedes EQS - 485 miles. The longest-range electric car currently on sale is also one of the newest: the Mercedes EQS.
2. Mercedes EQE - 410 miles. ...
3. Tesla Model S - 405 miles. ...
4. BMW iX - 380 miles. ...
5. Ford Mustang Mach-E - 379 miles. ...
6. BMW i4 - 367 miles. ...
7. Tesla Model 3 - 360 miles. ...
8. Tesla Model X - 360 miles. ...

 

 

 

I'm meeting a friend tomorrow who has a Mach-E and apart form them buying the wrong Mustang, I was keen to see what all the fuss is about (it does get generally very good reviews). But the only thing she's said so far is the range is nowhere near 379 miles and it's really quiet. She drives gently, too. But what I would be really interested in, is to see what her husband would get for range, as he has always had sports/fast cars and exercises his rather heavy foot a lot. I can't see him caring about range, so it would be interesting to know, as if I one day buy full EV then I suspect I too would chew through the available charge. Ever other person I know with an EV drives it to maximise range in general, I don't know any EV equivalents of the 'turbo-nutter-barsteward' .... yet!

@Lady ElanoreYou maybe need to widen your social circle or contacts to those that go play about in EV's and are not going any particular place for any particular purpose other than fun. 

Hit it north and onto the Snow roads of the North East of Scotland and experience drivers out for a thrash in their EV's.

 

Are these EV drivers you know really giving it laldy driving about on roads any more than other drivers are and going at speeds that much higher than the NSL's?

 

Keeping ones license matters to many who's employment relies on it.

https://news.stv.tv/highlands-islands/police-ramp-up-north-coast-500-patrols-in-crackdown-on-speeding-drivers

 

Even people with loads of money & toys can see the benefit of an EV for getting to work that is saving them in paying taxes and when they want can just be a play thing that they take for a blast for a few hundred miles if even that and that is not costing much in fuel if anything. 

 

They can be a total PITA though if you have lots of miles to do and you would rather splash the cash and not mess about at chargers, trying to get chargers etc.

Edited 12 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

Well, if you want to compare real World stuff, a friend of mine had an early Leaf. They lived in Skelmorlie (North Ayrshire) and worked in Alexandria (West Dunbartonshire). Mapping applications report the route as ~33 miles. She needed to recharge to complete this trip, and her husband didn't quite.

Funnily even a early Leaf over a decade old can easily do 33 miles and even a return 33 miles on a single charge.   But then there are people's real life experiences and they might do what they do.   Plenty are driving about in old Leafs or old Zoe,s and doing just fine.   2012 the real range was said to be 72 miles but then cold and using heating could maybe even make that optimistic.   I might still not get 100 miles from a 45 kW battery in cold weather in a 2020 EV and plenty other manufacturers cars are worse than that.  

 

Capped Electric price just now might be more like 28 pence a kWh until later this year.

 

So those 'Average 20 mile a day' people can charge at supermarkets, park and rides etc just the same as those with a car with a bigger battery and not need to charge at home every day.   Maybe every 3rd day on a public charger will be fine. 

 

 

 

Edited 12 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

2 hours ago, roottoot said:

Funnily even a early Leaf over a decade old can easily do 33 miles and even a return 33 miles on a single charge.   But then there are people's real life experiences and they might do what they do.   Plenty are driving about in old Leafs or old Zoe,s and doing just fine.   2012 the real range was said to be 72 miles but then cold and using heating could maybe even make that optimistic.   I might still not get 100 miles from a 45 kW battery in cold weather in a 2020 EV and plenty other manufacturers cars are worse than that.  

 

Capped Electric price just now might be more like 28 pence a kWh until later this year.

 

So those 'Average 20 mile a day' people can charge at supermarkets, park and rides etc just the same as those with a car with a bigger battery and not need to charge at home every day.   Maybe every 3rd day on a public charger will be fine. 

 

 

 

 

As Robert Llewelyn showed there are ways of either fixing duff cells or upgrade old 22 kWh packs for newer 30, or 40 was it,  to double or triple the range using the pack from a totalled LEAF. 

Presumably similar actions can be done for Zoe. 

Not cheap but after done one had a much better very cheap running car. 

 

7 hours ago, roottoot said:

@Lady ElanoreYou maybe need to widen your social circle or contacts to those that go play about in EV's and are not going any particular place for any particular purpose other than fun. 

Hit it north and onto the Snow roads of the North East of Scotland and experience drivers out for a thrash in their EV's.

 

Are these EV drivers you know really giving it laldy driving about on roads any more than other drivers are and going at speeds that much higher than the NSL's?

 

Keeping ones license matters to many who's employment relies on it.

https://news.stv.tv/highlands-islands/police-ramp-up-north-coast-500-patrols-in-crackdown-on-speeding-drivers

 

Even people with loads of money & toys can see the benefit of an EV for getting to work that is saving them in paying taxes and when they want can just be a play thing that they take for a blast for a few hundred miles if even that and that is not costing much in fuel if anything. 

 

They can be a total PITA though if you have lots of miles to do and you would rather splash the cash and not mess about at chargers, trying to get chargers etc.

 

 

Just got back from a car show and apart from there not being any EVs on show (it was a supercar show though, so not that many qualify yet), the ones driving to and from the event were all giving it 'tippy toes' driving, unlike the petrol heads. Not saying the young thrusters driving was exemplary, of course - it wasn't, but here does seem to be a different mindset. The friend and  colleague with the Mustang just told me of a typical tale of charging woe, driving from the North West to Norfolk recently. I'm sure things will eventually improve once more high speed chargers are freely available, but I am 100% not getting one until that extra infrastructure is in place.

 

I like my colleagues, rely on having a licence and several of those people now have EVs in the family as a second car, they simply can't use it very often for work and none drive in an 'enthusiastic' manner in them. That's fine with me, some people enjoy a spirited drive and some don't, there is no shame in driving with a weather eye on range. In fact, I often hear EV drivers talking about how they maximise range and they genuinely get enjoyment out of hypermiling. Perhaps it's the new thing? Car forums will be populated with members talking about how they hypermile, rather than their latests decat and ECU tune? It would certainly spare us from the backfiring which seems to be all the rage these days. 

 

I can stare at batteries and electric motors all day at work, and run my electric toothbrush if I want to hear electrical things in action, but the visceral thrills of ICE cars is a much more emotive thing and I will never pay money to go look at electric cars at a show. I'd rather go to a tool shop and ask to view their Black and Deckers. To hear the Aventador SVJ having a bit of a rev at the show was wonderful, if a little worrying that it might not have been warmed up properly, but my definition of fun in a car currently doesn't include EVs. Splashing the cash isn't even an option for me, if you are referring to Petrol/diesel costs? I could have bought a more economical car, but the fuel costs are secondary to being able to get to and from work. 

The sound of car with a nice engine noise accelerating away is wonderful but if it is only up to 65 or even 70 mph because it is drawing attention to itself then so be it. 

There are lots of nice quick cars about just trundling along.   

Also lots of ones making a lot of noise and not going anyplace very quickly.

 

I realise my above post is starting to stray too far from the OP, So I've started one that's slightly more appropriate here

 

 

Edited 12 June, 20223 yr by Lady Elanore

12 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Well, if you want to compare real World stuff, a friend of mine had an early Leaf. They lived in Skelmorlie (North Ayrshire) and worked in Alexandria (West Dunbartonshire). Mapping applications report the route as ~33 miles. She needed to recharge to complete this trip, and her husband didn't quite.

Is that 33 miles to and then 33 miles back?

 

I call BS on not able to do 33 miles. I regularly do 58 miles return trip as my commute in a 7.5 years old first-gen Leaf. Leaf came out in 2011, my one is a 2014, but still 24 kWh battery.

15 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Is that 33 miles to and then 33 miles back?

 

I call BS on not able to do 33 miles. I regularly do 58 miles return trip as my commute in a 7.5 years old first-gen Leaf. Leaf came out in 2011, my one is a 2014, but still 24 kWh battery.

 

My drive the 24 kWh LEAF like my son drive my Zoe ZE50.  Leaves 15 minutes to drive 10 miles through a mixture of roads, does not know or want to use the ECO button, has the stereo etc way up high, perhaps does not one pedal drive but touches the dreaded brake pedal and then back on the gas/lecky.

 

LEAF might have a few cells down but would still expect 50 miles even so from what I have heard, even in cold winter time, 60 or 65 miles average, 70-75 on a warm summer day when the living is easy.

 

Granny cable to become illegal.

 

What, what.  EV charging system that does not default to charging outside peak time no longer to be allowed hell's teeth  !

 

I wanted to get hold of one I could control to throttle charge throughput to 6,8,10 or 12 amps, better find one soon !

 

 

@lol-lolTell us more, who made it illegal and where.  Has Grant Shapps MP been talking again.

47 minutes ago, roottoot said:

@lol-lolTell us more, who made it illegal and where.  Has Grant Shapps MP been talking again.

 

EV Nick broadcast it so it must be true, maybe.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So 'just the usual BS, as they' have no idea if i have an extension cable to a caravan or camper or greenhouse heater plugged into a 3 pin socket in my home with no smart meter and no off peak tariff.

I have a 3 pin charger and am not buying another.

It is true. Dumb chargers to become illegal to sell at end of this month. The main goal is to sell chargers that delay a random amount of time to start charging so the grid doesn't get hit by thousands of EV all start charging when off-peak time starts. This makes sense, but it drives up cost of chargers.

 

I've been trying to get hold of a 7kW untethered dumb EV charger for my parents' new house for ages without any success. The price to install nowadays is shocking, was quoted £1100 for a standard install Rolec, just before the £350 grant ended. Now we've decided to just install an outdoor 3-pin regular socket for my Leaf's granny  charger. Hopefully in 2-3 years time when they get an EV, charger install cost will come down.

 

My EV charger was free for 3.6kW or £99 for 7kW, thanks to Nissan contribution. It's smart in the sense I can fully control it in their app or in Home Assistant. it's not latest standard of smart as per gov guidelines where it reduces charging according to home load or do the random delayed start.

So a Granny cable which i possess & might use to pre heat or even charge will not become 'illegal', 

not like an Air Weapon which there will be an amnesty to hand into a local police station.

 

Is there a Gov UK website on the Legislation, a press release & an announcement on the Law in England / Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland? 

 

All those home and property owners becoming criminals / law breakers possibly if prosecuted having being charged with being in possession of a prohibited item or conspiring to share one with a motorist in need. 

 

The Daily Mail & Express will love this an GB News also.

 

Edited 14 June, 20223 yr by roottoot