Just be aware the person that sadly died was not driving a Golf with a DSG.

 

 

 

15 hours ago, Offski said:

@Sarah18   Problem right there if you are being told nonsense about '34F7', 

 The Mineral Oil was put in instead of Synthetic & a Software Update.   So you can not trust a word they are telling you.

It was oil type not quantity.  Because of internal corrosion and a preventative measure.  Plenty Clutch Packs failing was another issue, but the Mechtronic Issue is still their fault.  Fundamental Design, Manufacturing, Materials or Fluids / Software failings, hence they changed the DQ200 and fluid in 2013, and that went wrong as well hence '34H5' required for some DSG's.

http://autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/vw-uk-why-we-dont-need-dsg-recall

 

 

The 7 speed twin dry clutch DSG in your Yeti is a DQ200. Also used in the Superb, Octavia, Fabia, Roomster, VW's, SEAT's & Audi's under 250Nm Torque like 1.2, 1.4, 1.8 TSI's and 1.6TDI's.

'34F7' was needed on ones with Synthetic oil from the factory 2009-2013.

& '34H5' 2013-2015,  not on all though. 

 

Many cars with DQ200's had the Service Campaign done wrongly.  

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/314923-fabia-recall

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you. I do not have any paperwork at all that looks like this! Only a poor print out of vehicle history- sent a year after I’d bought the car and much wrangling with Skoda Wakefield-and now a guy on service desk here (who’s been there 6 months) reporting back, as I said , no outstanding recalls and oil quantity was changed 2014. No proof of how /what was done. As the managers wouldn’t talk to me I called Skoda customer services and am hanging around waiting for them to graciously do me the honour of calling me back “by Tuesday probably” just to see if there’s any Goodwill lurking at the bottom of an overlooked barrel somewhere. This is very useful info Offski. It’s not clear who /where to write /email to -so done this by phone so far. Anyone got an address or should I bide my time till the call back..

 

Edited 9 November, 20187 yr by Sarah18
Document Photo attached...hopefully

The ultimate responsibility for an earned reputation comes back to Wolfsburg and their support to their importers and dealerships.

Yes, I agree with exactly what oldstan is saying and was what I was thinking when I said steer clear of independents for a job like this. Sadly main dealers can often fall short of the mark when rectifying problems even though they supposedly have all the advantages of factory trained techs, the required equipment and access to the latest data and parts which most independents won't have to a full extent. That fall back position of them having to sort it if things go wrong and having Skoda UK there as well (even with their shortcomings) can't be underestimated. An indie could be tempted to leave you in the lurch or try and charge you lots more money if it went wrong.

 

I have been lucky that of all the VW Group cars I've owned over the years the only major/expensive (under warranty) issue was with my 2008 Passat estate DSG where the mechatronic unit played up. Once replaced it was fine and still going strong with a work colleague - blimey it's 10 years old now (!), that's how a car should be. So I'm happy with how the main dealer dealt with the repair.

 

It doesn't mean I'm not a little nervous of DSG transmissions though, given the amount of ongoing negative publicity, and will be giving it a lot more thought when I do come to change as I did want to return to an auto of some sort.    

 

That video posted by Offski (pity someone over here doesn't have the balls to do something like that and the mention of pulled advertising was interesting) has certainly given me food for thought as well after all my years of buying VWG.

 

Edited 9 November, 20187 yr by VAGCF

Back in the old days, 70's. The mostly American designed three speed slushboxes were the norm. When the brake bands started slipping, just change the entire box for a reconditioned one, available from as little as £35-£50.

 

Why cant VAG simply offer a reconditioned replacement service. Saves all the the incompetence of barely trained dealer techs. Quicker. Doing a major gearbox overhaul on vehicle is surely not the cost effective way.

 

All these vehicle electronics and electrohydraulic suppliers are really taking the mick with the prices they charge.

 

Roll on the day we get simple electric drivetrains.

 

Edited 9 November, 20187 yr by xman

Apples and Pears talking about Wet Clutch DSG's with 6 or 7 speed and Oil Services every 40,000 miles and then 7 speed twin dry clutch DSG that are filled for life, 

have no service schedules of guidelines for maintenance and of which Skoda produce 2,200 a day of.

 

Pity they never learned from the VW errors, then the 2009-2012 issues when they changed in 2012/13 and now still they have issues, 

no mater if only few.

 

On going issues across Models. Skoda, SEAT. VW & AUDI from 2015.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/439395-the-story-of-the-famous-dq200-clutch-slip

Dealership employees will no doubt never of heard or seen this either if they do not look at the TPI's.

Edited 9 November, 20187 yr by Offski

I bought a wet clutch dsg after lots of thought. Never had an auto before.

However came across reports of a skoda taxi wet dsg with over 350k and no gearbox issues.

There is a tuned superb on here somewhere putting out stupid amounts of power (550+) through a standard wet dsg without issue, although he did later change to a competition clutch pack for dragstrip use.

Consensus is that wet clutch hardly wears as the fluid is squashed between the oplates as the clutch engages, By the time the plates touch the drag in the fluid has brought them both to the same speed, hence near zero wear.

 

On the contrary the dry clutch effectively works the same as a conventional clutch with friction between the plates taking the drive from the engine to the wheels as you pull away ar change gear. These must wear out like normal clutches do, and I have read that even if used very carefully have a life of around 160k, about twice a conventional clutch, due to multiple clutch plates increasing area to wear.

 

These dry clutches can quickly be damaged by incorrect use eg

• holding the car stationary on a hill with the clutch by applying a little power
• Manouvering a heavy trailer slowly, especially backwards up a steep slope.
• Sitting in gear with foot off the brake and handbrake applied (And I have seen drivers employed by Skoda routinely do this when giving me a lift to the office when my car was in for a service)
• Manouvering at slow speed below the correct speed for the gear. DSG's seem to go straight for second when it would be best to go to manual mode and hold them in first and trickle along with the clutch fully engaged rather than slipping in second
• Creeping with the brake applied in very slow traffic as speed would otherwise be too high. Better to stop, let a gap develop and then move forward in first with clutch fully engaged.
• I also think the coasting function should be avoided in the dry dsg as it adds a huge number of clutch operations to every journey, wearing out both the clutch and the hydraulic operators.

Hence I am happy with the risk I am taking with a wet clutch dsg, but personally would not buy the dry version. (I have taken out the extended warranty though.)

 

Its not just VW/Skoda etc, my son bought a 20k mile ex motability Focus and the dry clutch pack in that had to be replaced almost immediately under warranty as juddering in second. Clearly misused by first owner.

 

Ex Motability Ford with Power-Shift has little to do with the subject other than finally Ford have had to admit the issues with those.

Not so sure that a Power-Shift needs abuse to go wrong, i know of new ones that were bad from the off.

 

As to the Coasting Functioning with a DQ200, hardly a case of a 'huge number of clutch operations, or additional ones compared to the clutch operations there are constantly.

With the 250 Nm max limit that the DQ200 DSG's have the heavy trailer reversing issue might be there for some.

 

There are 48 applications / models that the DQ200 is used with including 1.8 TSI 192ps 2015 VW Polo GTI.

Not heard of many issues with those, but maybe there are a few.

59 minutes ago, kenfowler3966 said:

These dry clutches can quickly be damaged by incorrect use eg

• holding the car stationary on a hill with the clutch by applying a little power
• Manouvering a heavy trailer slowly, especially backwards up a steep slope.
• Sitting in gear with foot off the brake and handbrake applied (And I have seen drivers employed by Skoda routinely do this when giving me a lift to the office when my car was in for a service)
• Manouvering at slow speed below the correct speed for the gear. DSG's seem to go straight for second when it would be best to go to manual mode and hold them in first and trickle along with the clutch fully engaged rather than slipping in second
• Creeping with the brake applied in very slow traffic as speed would otherwise be too high. Better to stop, let a gap develop and then move forward in first with clutch fully engaged.
• I also think the coasting function should be avoided in the dry dsg as it adds a huge number of clutch operations to every journey, wearing out both the clutch and the hydraulic operators.

 

Excellent list of how not to drive any DSG gearbox.  The point about sitting in gear with foot off the brake and parking brake applied is particularly relevant for drivers used to torque converter automatics, where this is a perfectly normal thing to do, at least in the UK.

56 minutes ago, Offski said:

Ex Motability Ford with Power-Shift has little to do with the subject other than finally Ford have had to admit the issues with those.

Not so sure that a Power-Shift needs abuse to go wrong, i know of new ones that were bad from the off.

 

As to the Coasting Functioning with a DQ200, hardly a case of a 'huge number of clutch operations, or additional ones compared to the clutch operations there are constantly.

With the 250 Nm max limit that the DQ200 DSG's have the heavy trailer reversing issue might be there for some.

 

There are 48 applications / models that the DQ200 is used with including 1.8 TSI 192ps 2015 VW Polo GTI.

Not heard of many issues with those, but maybe there are a few.

 

 

A trifle abrupt ... bordering on the brusque, I'd have said.  Ken was merely passing on on an observation which, as I see it, does have a certain relevancy to the matter in hand......not exactly "apples and pears" (to quote an idiom used further back).

 

 

Power-Shift is also used in Fords with more power than the limited Nm that VW Group use the DQ200 DSG's in.

 

 

 

Edited 9 November, 20187 yr by Offski

I think SOME Skoda dealers might take every opportunity to fob off anybody trying to make a claim for an early failure of a dsg done only 34,000 ,I don’t think they are particularly sexist they just don’t like treating customers with respect.

Edited 9 November, 20187 yr by Sad555

I'm not going to go over the old ground as to how we managed to end up on the wrong end of a £3200 bill to replace mechatronic unit and clutch packs on my wife's mk2 Fabia vRS, equipped of course with the same 7sp DQ 200 gearbox Sarah has in her Yeti. Offski has given a brief taste of what happened earlier in the thread and the whole story is in the mk2 Fabia section. When you read it, bear in mind that the technicians misdiagnosed 3 times, and the Service Manager was there to manage the Service side but had no maintenance and repair knowledge of the product, he was there to maximise income from the Servicing side, including attempting to get us to pay £7400 for a whole new gearbox on a car worth around £5000.

 

So what I would say is this; it is important that you have this work done at a main dealership, but at one that you can trust. That in itself may be easier said than done. Although all trust we had in Parks has disintegrated, we have found Ingrams Skoda in Ayr to be much more on the ball.

 

Replacing the mechatronic unit is probably best done at a main dealer by an experienced technician who has replaced more than one before. The part itself comes coded to the VIN number of your vehicle, and the main dealer is then required to upload basic settings, before test driving and then fettling the settings afterwards. It is difficult, but not impossible, for an independent specialist to replicate this, access to the software etc required may not be easily achieved, on that I'm not sure.

 

Ours, a 2012 1.4tsi 132kw cave engine, had a replacement engine at just 2 years old and with only 26,000 miles on the clock. That was down to excessive oil consumption. Happily, the replacement engine (covered under warranty) has remedied that situation.

 

After having the engine change, and since the service actions became known, we asked on 3 occasions about any service action work perhaps being needed on our DSG gearbox, and each time were told nothing required, as ours didn't need it doing.

 

At just under 6 years of age, and with 60 odd thousand miles on the clock, a flashing white spanner appeared in the PRNDS area of the MFD. It turns out this flashing spanner was trying to tell us that the mechatronic unit was on its way out, whereas the dealer reckoned it was telling us the vehicle needed an inspection service and told us not to worry, and to keep driving it.

 

We did, and it cost us the aforementioned £3200, as well as 9 weeks worth of stress while they kept our car.

 

I wish Sarah well. 

 

If it helps, we ended up speaking to Gemma Gough at Executive Office, one of McLeod's team, as we wouldn't accept the garbage they were spouting. Skoda UK are very well aware the DQ200 has problems, and of the flashing white spanner, but neglected to tell the dealer network. Even at 6 years old, and out of warranty, we did get goodwill from them, nothing from the dealer, who were quite frankly, a shower of so and so's.

And I should add we are in turmoil over what to do next with regard to future car purchases. My wife requires the automatic gearbox, but we have been so soured by the experience that my wife told SUK that not only would we not buy brand again, we wouldn't in all likelihood purchase anything VAG.

 

For now, after spending so much, and with 2 year warranty on the DSG after the repair, we are keeping it, but not with great confidence. At some point in every journey you find yourself making sure there's no flashing spanner, so confidence is dented and may never be fully regained.

 

And that's a shame, because the DSG is brilliant when working properly.

VWG have done the German motor industry and it's associated brands great harm. If the likes of Kia bring out a better SUV with their longer warrantees I shall be considering them which is something I thought I'd never do.

 

I've been a long term customer of VWG and never felt the need to look elsewhere. That has now changed. One of the reasons for buying a Skoda was the link with VW. That is now considered a negative. 

Edited 10 November, 20187 yr by VAGCF

3 minutes ago, VAGCF said:

VWG have done the German motor industry and it's associated brands great harm. If the likes of Kia bring out a better SUV with their longer warantees I shall be considering them which is something I thought I'd never do.

 

I agree, however Kia autos are also dsg type boxes, not sure if dry or wet clutches involved, maybe more reliable, but I think the dsg concept is fundamentally flawed in certain areas. 

Kia / Hyundai do Twin Clutch as do Renault / Dacia,  Suzuki, Fiat / Jeep do as well, and all work well.

But then so can DQ200 DSG's.   & there are lots of them.  VW Group just need more honesty when they go wrong.

 

I really liked a Twin Clutch Alfa Romeo MiTo (TCT)  the first i drove one, the 'D' 'N' & 'A' you can select is good IMO, 

then the Jeep Twin Clutch and the Suzuki with Petrol Engines, but then they are basically the same boxes.

Edited 10 November, 20187 yr by Offski

Yes xman, a pity as DSG are the nearest to the best of both worlds and I really enjoyed mine.

 

My 2013 A6 had a multitronic/CVT box and apart from the fact that I could never get used to the revs not matching road speed it was lovely and smooth and quiet. It was dropped soon after I guess because the fuel consumption fell short of that of the manual even though the test results were virtually identical.

 

Ironically Subaru and other manufacturers now use the CVT box and if that proves to be a more reliable choice (they've had their own problems) then I may have to set aside my prejudices and not dismiss them out of hand.

 

 

Edited 10 November, 20187 yr by VAGCF

Subaru Lineartronics are very good now.  They feel like the have gear changes and not like they are a CVT.

Edited 10 November, 20187 yr by Offski

That's interesting, I'm going to have to keep an open mind more in the future! 

On 10/11/2018 at 00:16, Offski said:

Kia / Hyundai do Twin Clutch as do Renault / Dacia,  Suzuki, Fiat / Jeep do as well, and all work well.

But then so can DQ200 DSG's.   & there are lots of them.  VW Group just need more honesty when they go wrong.

 

I really liked a Twin Clutch Alfa Romeo MiTo (TCT)  the first i drove one, the 'D' 'N' & 'A' you can select is good IMO, 

then the Jeep Twin Clutch and the Suzuki with Petrol Engines, but then they are basically the same boxes.

 

"then the Jeep Twin Clutch and the Suzuki with Petrol Engines, but then they are basically the same boxes."

 

 

But a Suzuki Vitara petrol, for example, doesn't have a twin clutch transmission .... it's a torque converter.  The diesels are twin clutch.

 

So hard to see how they're  'basically the same boxes'

 

Yes sorry, the TCSS is with the Diesel in the S-Cross and Vitara S.

"Yes sorry, the TCSS is with the Diesel in the S-Cross and Vitara S. "

 

But the Vitara S is a 1.4 turbo charged petrol and has a torque converter transmission.  It's on my list of possible replacements for my current car hence my enquiring of the dealer what sort of automatic it is.

5 minutes ago, oldstan said:

"Yes sorry, the TCSS is with the Diesel in the S-Cross and Vitara S. "

 

But the Vitara S is a 1.4 turbo charged petrol and has a torque converter transmission.  It's on my list of possible replacements for my current car hence my enquiring of the dealer what sort of automatic it is.

 

A friend at work has a Vitara S 1.4 turbo auto - yup torque converter transmission, lovely and smooth. Nice car..

Edited 11 November, 20187 yr by bigjohn

It is just about 6 weeks since i drove a new Vitara S 1.4 BoostJet Auto and i drove a Renegade Dual Clutch the same weekend.

The Dual Clutch Gearboxes for the Diesel are from Fiat.

Edited 11 November, 20187 yr by Offski