Fuel Filter change and drastic fuel consumption

[automass]

2 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

 

This takes us back to it being difficult to compare the before and after filter change figures.  What calculated figures are you getting now? (not on board reading). 

Please don't take it that I am criticising your driving but the gearing could be different with it being euro6 and maybe your style doesn't help it if you are used to the old car.  It took me a year to start seeing good figures from mine anywhere near what I expected when I changed from mk2 1.9 to mk3 2.0.

 

I appreciate your replies and as you are taking things seriously. in your case it was different engine size. but for me it is the same engine size. I had 1.6tdi which was euro5 (official MPG 73.4 average) and used as private and hire part time..and this new one is 1.6tdi euro6 (official mpg 74.3 average) used as part time private and hire. as I mentioned in my previous post, I do even drive neutral whenever possible. I do miss gear, but nothing is helping to get the MPG as close as the old car. and its just happening since I touched the fuel filter. now in average I am getting around 30-40miles less in 40liters fuel(full tank)

[Ootohere]

The old Euro Testing and the WLTP / RDE does not have a Driving Cycle for Taxi / Private Hire cars.

They only do testing with Drivers not people / passengers / luggage, and as Skoda said until a year ago, For Comparison not real world.

 

Then 45 mpg is 4.546 litre used to go 45 miles.

If the engine sits running and going no place, ie ticking over that is going no miles but still using fuel.

Which really is why Stop / Start was introduced.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/448154-consumption-figures-when-idling

 

 

Now the 1.6 TDI comes with SCR (Ad-Blue) because the Euro 6 testing was 'cheated'.  Irregular / Implausible. 

 

There are various threads in the Superb & Octavia section with Euro 6 1.6tdi's being used as taxis and having disappointing economy.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/382556-superb-mk-2-19-or-16

 

Edited 9 May, 2019 by Skoffski

[MarkyG82]

I've just done some digging and although I didn't find any actual figures the change from eu5 to eu6 is causing a LOT more regens.  This could explain the additional fuel your are using and as stated previously you may just have to put up with it or take it on more regular high speed runs to clear the system.  I almost exclusively use premium diesel to help with keeping all the bits cleaner.  I'm under no illusion that diesel is a clean fuel (no fuel is) but the added detergents and chemicals in the premium should keep my engine running sweeter for longer (confirmed by my garage who said it's looking better after 18 months than when I first took it to them for an oil change).

[Russ77]

I have a MK3 2.0TDi (150BHP version).  I've been logging my fuel usage via an app on my phone.  I've been logging my fuel usage via an app on my phone and on fuelly, as you can see in my signature, I'm averaging just under 53MPG, the vast majority of my miles are to & from work, a 35 mile round trip on a mixture of roads which takes me roughly 30-35 mins in the morning and 35-45 mins on the way home.  Some mornings I average 70mpg although these are the exception, it's normally around 62/63mpg.

 

On the way home the traffic is worse, I'm lucky to get 55MPG which is a significant difference from the morning trip on the same roads and the car being driven in the same way, the only difference is the amount of traffic.

 

Now the figures I quote are exclusively from the Maxidot/infotainment system.  When I fill up and work out my actual MPG, it's always a good 2-3 MPG less over a tank than what the car says.  

 

I also have a Scangauge which works out MPG too, you can calibrate it and log the amount off fuel that you fill up with so it can have a better idea of your actual usage, this will read +/- 2-3mpg of what the car and/or the actual MPG is.

 

My point (after all that) is that MPG can be so very variable, ambient temperature, the amount of traffic etc can all make it vary significantly.  Any on-board display of MPG is a guess by the ECU, a guess at something that is variable.

 

Unless you are working out your actual MPG you're never going to have an accurate comparison and a baseline to see if any changes you make actually improve things.

 

From what I've read it does seem like you have a problem and it does seem to coincide with the fuel filter change, however as others have said, it would seem strange that the car would drive as normal with no errors if it was using so much extra fuel.

 

Incdentally, I notice a big drop off in MPG when I don't go to work and use it for short journeys around town.  I recorded a 46.84MPG tank during such a time and I know if I drive a little more enthusiastically then I can easily see low 40/high 30 MPG.

Edited 9 May, 2019 by Russ77

[cheezemonkhai]

13 hours ago, automass said:

Common man!!! you have to admit they know better than us..they can not just manipulate what they want. they did reduce in tyre size which is 16inch now compare to other one I had which was 17inch. this is just an example...may be there are many other adjustment they made to keep the MPG same.

Dieselgate.

 

FWIW having driven the same route in 5 and 6 cars many times, I can tell you the 5 was significantly easier to get good mpg than the 6.

 

i imagine the 6 breathes more of its own farts (EGR) and many other things that each reduce mpg a little bit. Combined they make a real difference.

 

RDE was brought in exactly to counter the bordering on fictional MPG and emissions numbers some companies were putting out. Achievable during the previous test cycle does not equal achievable in real driving.

 

Edited 9 May, 2019 by cheezemonkhai

[automass]

GUYS...THANKS ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR VALUABLE ADVICE...BUT I THINK I HAVE TO CLOSE THIS THREAD AS SOME A***O*L* HIT MY CAR AND SMASHED DRIVER'S DOOR AND ALSO REAR RIGHT PASSANGER DOORIT THIS EVENING. SO I MAY NEED TO LOOK FOR TO BUY ANOTHER CAR. IRONY IS MY INSURANCE IS RUNNING OUT TOMORROW AT 13:42 AND I ALREADY BOUGHT A NEW COVER LAST WEEK WHICH WILL BE STARTING TOMORROW 13:43..

SO, ITS OFF TOPIC BUT IF ANYONE CAN ADVISE ME REGARDS OF INSURANCE WOULD BE HIGHLY APPRECIATED, LIKE WHETHER I SHOULD CANCEL THE NEW COVER OR I SHOULD JUST NOTIFY THEM ABOUT THE ACCIDENT. THE FAULT OF THE ACCIDENT IS OTHER DRIVER. I WAS CROSSING THE JUNCTION AND HE WAS TURNING RIGHT..HE DIDNT STOP OR COULDNT CONTROL HIS MB E220 AND THEREFORE COLLISON. HIS AIRBAG WENT OFF AND CAR WAS UNDRIVEABLE BUT MINE IS DRIVEABLE AND I RETURNED HOME SAFELY BY DRIVING MY CAR.

Edited 9 May, 2019 by automass

[ChoonDoode]

1 hour ago, automass said:

GUYS...THANKS ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR VALUABLE ADVICE...BUT I THINK I HAVE TO CLOSE THIS THREAD AS SOME A***O*L* HIT MY CAR AND SMASHED DRIVER'S DOOR AND ALSO REAR RIGHT PASSANGER DOORIT THIS EVENING. SO I MAY NEED TO LOOK FOR TO BUY ANOTHER CAR. IRONY IS MY INSURANCE IS RUNNING OUT TOMORROW AT 13:42 AND I ALREADY BOUGHT A NEW COVER LAST WEEK WHICH WILL BE STARTING TOMORROW 13:43..

SO, ITS OFF TOPIC BUT IF ANYONE CAN ADVISE ME REGARDS OF INSURANCE WOULD BE HIGHLY APPRECIATED, LIKE WHETHER I SHOULD CANCEL THE NEW COVER OR I SHOULD JUST NOTIFY THEM ABOUT THE ACCIDENT. THE FAULT OF THE ACCIDENT IS OTHER DRIVER. I WAS CROSSING THE JUNCTION AND HE WAS TURNING RIGHT..HE DIDNT STOP OR COULDNT CONTROL HIS MB E220 AND THEREFORE COLLISON. HIS AIRBAG WENT OFF AND CAR WAS UNDRIVEABLE BUT MINE IS DRIVEABLE AND I RETURNED HOME SAFELY BY DRIVING MY CAR.

 

 

The only advice I could give you would be to contact the insurance who you were under when said incident happened. It was their policy you were under.

 

Hope all is resolved quickly and effectively mate.

[cheezemonkhai]

I am no expert, so take this as thoughts, not advice.

 

if you change insurers at 12:00 and have an accident at 11.45, the old company not the new is the one you raise it with.

 

i wold assume, but it’s an assumption, that would apply to you. I would make sure you report it to your insurer before the old policy expires and take their advice.

 

Looks repairable from just the pictures tbh, so you might need the new policy anyway.

Edited 10 May, 2019 by cheezemonkhai

[Ootohere]

@automass

In your recent thread on the Servicing and shaking engine you say the fuel consumption is worse, 

is it now worse than in this thread afrer the Fuel Filter replaqcement that you seemed to think was the cause?

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/471958-after-oil-change-servicing-my-car-chokesshakes-and-makes-some-strange-noise-when-starting-the-first-time

 

[automass]

Yes. its worse now. 

Edited 1 October, 2019 by automass

[automass]

Guys,

 

I have couple of threads about the fuel consumption but I want to sum them up here and want expert advice

 

Car was bought in April 2019 with 90,000 miles with Full service (main dealer) history. I did drive a week before changing anything in the car and there was no concern about fuel consumption.

1. I did realise that Fuel filter is due to be replaced (because car was sitting with the seller for 4-5 months and so and they just did basic interim service which do not include Fuel filter changing)

2.I watched some youtube videos and bought a fuel filter from ECP and changed myself

3. problem started from there. I did see the fuel consumption has gone down to 35-40 miles in a full tank. ( I could get 380-400miles on average until fuel warning light pops up, now I am getting 350-360miles)

4.Took the car to skoda for full Major Service within few days

5. nothing improved.

6. I was due for interim service

7.took the car to local main dealer for opil change servicing

8. after oil change servicing...car was making engine knocking sounds and 4 days later car did not start

9.had to call break down cover to take it to the skoda again

10. they said because of Caron being built up in injector, car was not starting. (I always use shell diesel, no idea what previous owner used)

11. they used injector cleaner which was recommended by skoda.

12. car starts good, but fuel consumption has gone more down

13. I did by Lucas Carbon injector cleaner. and used it once the fuel tank had quarter of fuel left in it

14. No improvement

15. Bought a Liqui Moly dpf cleaner from online (someone said may be dpf is clogging up) last week

16. used it but no good result

 

Any idea or anything else you want to know. P.S: I used to see an Emission sign lights up in the dash for few times but on the dash didn't show any error. Don't know if that sign was for Injector or not.

 

[jjc]

Could be DPF related if it is constantly trying to do a regen as this uses more fuel. get the DPF phone app and Bluetooth module, this will tell you what is happening in the DPF and may let you know what is happening to the fuel issue

 

John

[automass]

On ‎03‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 13:20, jjc said:

Could be DPF related if it is constantly trying to do a regen as this uses more fuel. get the DPF phone app and Bluetooth module, this will tell you what is happening in the DPF and may let you know what is happening to the fuel issue

 

John

 

What DPF mobile app you recon? I have installed 'DPF Info' and have OBD II connected on the port, but couldn't scan .

[MarkyG82]

I've said it elsewhere: full service history (dealer or not) just means a record of what has been done. It does not mean the car has been serviced correctly.

At any point has the fuel filter been checked by a mechanic? I seem to remember you having difficulty in refitting the case or was that someone else?

 

You could well have a duff dpf especially if the car was used as a taxi (?) And covered many short journeys with stop/start being used.

 

So, check the dpf and repair/replace as required and also get the fuel system checked.

 

[BNT1985]

On 03/10/2019 at 12:46, automass said:

Guys,

 

I have couple of threads about the fuel consumption but I want to sum them up here and want expert advice

 

In 5 pages you have been evasive, asking for advice but only giving part of the story; "Hey guyz I need your expert advice because replaced my diesel filter with a cotton shirt, what did I do wrong" someone then says "have you tried this" and the reply in the next posts is "yes I have tried this already, please help".... 

 

This thread was hard work, Briskodians sure do have patience.  

 

To not be totally negative and actually partake, I have the 150BHP 2.0TDI (2015 Euro 5). 

Over 37,085miles my cars calculated MPG(UK) is 46.9MPG as a low, 69.6MPG as a high, average over those miles is 53.8MPG. 

As others have said, MPG will change on how you drive (the large MPG gained during 7hr drive to Scotland sat on the motorway with cruise control on with my summer tyres), driving conditions (I tend to get lower MPG in the winter due to winter tyres, generally slower traffic), using my figures the range between my low and high MPG is 22.7MPG which is pretty big.

[automass]

This is very interesting, I have explained everything I could, but still BNTI985 is saying I was giving part of the story. I am novice and apologize if I am not clear what I was trying to say, but somebody is welcome to ask me if they really want to know more to help me.

 

to MarkyG82: The service was always carried out by skoda by following the servicing and maintenance scheduled of skoda and digitally kept them in their server. Fuel filter was changed once in 2018. so when I bought the car in 90k, I decided to change it. I did reopen the lid as it was consuming more fuel and thus I damaged the threads of the bolts but I have managed to keep it securely locked with different bolts and nuts washers. Well, As I explained I did take the car to Skoda dealer and got  everything (Oil, Oil filter, oil filter washer, Air filter, Pollen filter, Fuel filter)  changed. 

Fuel consumption never been increased since I touched the fuel filter and I stopped following my first thread. now after interim service consumption has gone more down and car was not even starting in one point. So skoda was saying it was carbon being built up in injectors. They used fuel additive to clean it up.

 

So I am guessing carbon may have been building up for ages in the injectors for ages and if somebody thinks I am right, how can I get them real clean, or did you have the similar problem?

Skoda says, Carbon built up in the injectors for the car 2013 onward is a known issue as Skoda was using bosch Injectors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MarkyG82]

So, dealers (in my experience) have a habit of not completing work they said they would to cut time on jobs. The fuel filter may or may not have been changed. It may also have been 'inspected' i.e. not changed either when stated in the history or when you asked them to. 

Let's assume they did change it when you asked them to after 90k (?), Did they bleed the system correctly? 

Next let's assume the the fuel system is working. Have you checked the dpf as many have suggested? I'm not the only one saying the 1.6tdi with stop/start is a bad choice for a taxi due to the dpf.

A dog needs to be removed from the vehicle to clean it. No magic fluid will make it better if leaving it installed.

[silver1011]

On 03/10/2019 at 12:46, automass said:

I used to see an Emission sign lights up in the dash for few times but on the dash didn't show any error.

 

On 04/10/2019 at 15:39, automass said:

What DPF mobile app you recon? I have installed 'DPF Info' and have OBD II connected on the port, but couldn't scan .

 

What OBD II reader are you using?

 

An EML (Engine Management Light) will more often than not log as a fault code, especially if it has come on multiple times

 

Using your OBD reader did you take a look at the fault codes?

[durhamfisher]

Could the issue still be an injector problem? I.e. the injector which was "cleaned" with the additive is now operating within parameters so as to not throw an error but the ecu is compensating for the injectors poor performance with increased fuel consumption?

[automass]

The fuel filter has definitely been changed. I did challenge them, but the guy who did, he said he definitely did it. I don't know whether they bleed it properly or not, but they are skoda dealer.

OBD Eleven is the OBD tool that I used (found it in this forum). There is no fault code in the car. and also when I was trying to see the DPF live data..i couldn't find too much of it whereas in my previous 63 plate car I could see the shoot level of dpf and so on.

DPF or Injector to be blame for this poor consumption I think.

Just to let you know, I used 63plate for part time cab as well. I drove 60k with that car. so MK3 isn't new to me.

What do you use to clean the injector and dpf. as I mentioned I have already used Lucas injector cleaner and Liqui Moly dpf cleaner.

 

[MarkyG82]

If wanting to clean the dpf it must be removed and cleaned by a specialist.  I'm not sure on the process but I think it involves chemicals, pressure washing and ovens.  it is not possible to clean it when fitted to the car.

For the injectors I used to use redex once a year.  Now I only use v-power as the overall cost is similar due to the slight increase in economy going some way to countering the increase cost in fuel but then not having to pay for redex and also keeping the engine in better condition.  Taxi style driving may not benefit though.

[Ace78]

If it helps, I have some thoughts on my Superb Estate 2.0 TDI 2015 (MK2 FL).

 

I bought it a year ago with 104k on the odo. Since then I added 12k. of which 5k was almost exclusively on motorways of 7 countries. I drive twice a year to Poland. After I purchased the car, the DPF would light up regularly every other month - I'm using car for very short trips in city, say 2.5 miles one way with a stop (home to school 1mi, 15 stop then school to work 1.5 mi since September 2018). That's daily. on weekends trips are longer, but still under 20miles a day total on most days.
So my MPG in city is dreadful (very low 30-ies), but motorway is very nice (uk it's about 65, elsewhere is about 58 as speed limit is higher).

 

However I do notice that every time I change filters and oil the mpg goes up noticeably. Also, since I returned from last trip in july, I had just one DPF light on, and it cleared up after 20m drive, when engine warmed up and stayed up. I think unless DPF is completely and hopelessly clogged, you can clean it up with long enough trip. Certainly in my case 1200 miles in 24hrs does  wonders for the DPF... If that is not an option, then DPF regen is the way to go. It is, though, a major job. And, in case someone thinks about it - you CAN legally remove DPF from your car, but you CAN'T legally drive a car modified that way.

 

Back to automass' issues - I would in that situation go to a different garage and ordered another change of filters and oil. And then compared the results. if you do a lot of miles fuel consumption is a factor. If you see drop in efficiency to the tune of 20% surely investing a bit in things that have most direct and biggest effect on it makes a lot of sense.

That it started with fuel filter change is, in my opinion, a total coincidence. I can't think of a scenario when that part replacement adversely affects fuel consumption. For that matter it should not in any way. Clogged fuel filter causes a lot of issues, yes, but causing fuel consumption increase? I know it is always on any "tip to increase mileage" list, but looking at it from purely technical POV it's BS. The ONLY ways I can see that fuel filter would affect economy is ADVERSELY (that is - lowering MPG) is when it's LEAKING  or when the engine LITERALLY runs at flat out max (and even then it's unlikely).

 

[automass]

I lover your explanation and thanks for taking time to reply. I had my car smashed from the back. So it is sitting on the road for the insurance company to take it and assess. I will be glad if it gets written off. Meanwhile I am enjoying browsing cars in the websites. 

[Florian_pl]

Hi Guys,

It is old post but maybe somebody will reply, I am not sure whether some solution was found.

I have my octavia from the December 2019, reg 16. I was using it through the last winter and summer with doing about 450 / 480 miles per tank. All the time after refueling I am resetting odometer. It started in September where I noticed that on one tank I have done just 280 miles. I have used three tanks so far and still the same just 280 miles per tank. I have been in Skoda, but ofcourse they do not see a problem, no errors. Car is in good shape.

I have visited as well independednt garage, but they have said the same. No errors, no problem.

 

I am going to check car with OBD II but not expect any obvious things to find. Much appriciated for any advice.

Just to add I am using V-Power before and after issue came up.

At the moment I am suspecting DPF, as my idle rpms and not going down below 1000 even if engine reach temperature. The thread with fuel filter seems to be interesting.

Many thanks

[Ootohere]

Welcome to the forum.

?

How many miles had the car done when you got it and how many now?

?

How often is the car doing regens?

 

I think the fuel filter had nothing to do with anything with the OP. 

 ?

Why not give the very expensive Shell V-Power a miss and even their Regular Diesel and go brim the tank someplace else. Zero the dash and drive until you need to refuel and say how many litres to brim again and how far travelled.  Saying per tank gives no idea of how many miles per litre you are getting.   Is there a nice clean air filter fitted?

Edited 20 November, 2020 by e-Roottoot