Has anyone actually removed the stop start

[shyVRS245]

19 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

I always ride on pavements where there is no street lighting.  Because you can, and then there are shared pedestrian and cycle pavements and paths.

Also there are utter nutter turbo barstewards doing 'traffic light grand prixs' like grand pric-ks so sometimes the pavement is the safe option as they have FWD, all the gear and little idea.

This was daytime, street lighting present, 30mph limit and no cycle lane. Below are figures for cyclists hitting pedestrians since 2013 the figures are rising showing either more cyclists or they are being more careless.

2013 466 hit 93 serious injury.

2014 498 hit.

2015 444 hit.

2016 460 hit.

2017 531 hit 122 serious injury.

I know around 450 cyclists die each year when hit by cars, vans, buses and lorries (possibly even trains/crossings) but they should be more careful when on pavements.

[Ootohere]

Pedestrians do walk onto the public highway and get hit by cyclists in the same way as they do in front of cars, vans, lorries, trams etc.

 

Any figures for pedestrians hit by cyclists just on pavements & cycle paths & not mixed in with on roads?

Cyclists are pedestrians as well on a push bike, ie human power, electric bikes maybe a bit different but still pedal assist in the UK.

 

https://fullfact.org/health/cyclist-deaths

 

Edited 7 June, 2019 by Skoffski

[Bouncypete]

13 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

This was daytime, street lighting present, 30mph limit and no cycle lane. Below are figures for cyclists hitting pedestrians since 2013 the figures are rising showing either more cyclists or they are being more careless.

2013 466 hit 93 serious injury.

2014 498 hit.

2015 444 hit.

2016 460 hit.

2017 531 hit 122 serious injury.

I know around 450 cyclists die each year when hit by cars, vans, buses and lorries (possibly even trains/crossings) but they should be more careful when on pavements.

To put that into context, from the DfT’s Reported Road Casualties for Great Britain Report in 2015 

 

There were 16,415 collisions involving cars, leaving 3,433 pedestrians seriously injured and 212 dead.

 

In just 1 year!

[shyVRS245]

15 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

Pedestrians do walk onto the public highway and get hit by cyclists in the same way as they do in front of cars, vans, lorries, trams etc.

 

Any figures for pedestrians hit by cyclists just on pavements & cycle paths & not mixed in with on roads?

Cyclists are pedestrians as well on a push bike, ie human power, electric bikes maybe a bit different but still pedal assist in the UK.

 

https://fullfact.org/health/cyclist-deaths

 

Pedestrians are given the right of way at traffic lights and on pelican crossings but too many times when sitting in my car I have seen a rogue cyclist nearly hit a person on a pelican crossing (no attempt to stop) and go straight through a red traffic light.

[Ootohere]

Too many times as i approach people walking and make eye contact they still walk right in front, or let the dogs extending lead out so i have to stop.

Daily i see as many **** pedestrians, cyclists as drivers. 

This morning at 6am they were like lemmings.   Beautiful sunny and shiny morning and there is stupidity all around.

People generally are sometimes not functioning with a full pack.

 

Not many sitting at lights though with stop / start functioning on not, and i was up and down pavements getting around red lights like a 'paper boy / girl.'

[Scotty72]

11 hours ago, Rodge said:

Hopefully you give way at roundabouts unlike the idiot who nearly ran me over today cycling to work (there was a traffic jam and he had nowhere to go on the roundabout). What a selfish moron.

I cycle to/from the station daily each end (use a fold up bike) and even though Farnborough doesn't have close to London traffic levels there are  in my view too many clueless wonders who have no concept of leaving enough room when passing me. I ride on the road always. I use high visability clothing and cycle helmet ( no legal requirement to use one in the UK) and flashing LED lights to ensure some of the dozy idiots have a better chance of spotting me. I generally have one or two close passes every day i.e. that make you wince!!!!... generally there is nothing stopping them using more of the opposite side of the road to pass me. I think its generally there is such a low level of road cycling peak time many driver are simply clueless. I get some seriously aggressive moves to get in front of me by some drivers amazingly Audi drivers really are the worst and we've got a stack round here.

Closest I've had in the 10 months is a guy in a Leon ST who basically just wasn't going to stop and give way to me already on the roundabout closet to my home.. f.me he missed my rear wheel by inches. 100% my right of way.

I actually feel safer cycling in central london - I did live in East London for 18 years. Whilst you get some crazy drivers (minicabs usually) most other road users have a clue that there are high numbers of two wheeled users be it cycles or motorcycles. I commuted daily on my motorcycle across London the whole time I was there no way could cope with the cattle truck tube - so very experienced reading the road ahead and trying wherever possible to predict idiots before they do something stupid. I always ride large cc bikes too with massive better performance than any of the cars.. meaning you got to the front of the queues always and could disappear off away from trouble... sadly no chance of this when cycling lol

Edited 7 June, 2019 by Scotty72

[benterrier]

Sorry but recent postings have somewhat strayed off topic, as they do from time to time

[shyVRS245]

9 minutes ago, benterrier said:

Sorry but recent postings have somewhat strayed off topic, as they do from time to time

Well when I am walking my inbuilt stop/start is always switched on. Back on topic.

[Scotty72]

2 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Well when I am walking my inbuilt stop/start is always switched on. Back on topic.

I tried taking it back on topic pages ago but it didn't work.. lol so I'm just joining in with the alternative discussions now. other forums the thread would have been either been closed or people warned by admins to stay on topic.

Stop Start runs 99.9% of the time on my vRS BTW.. still don't like it but I use it.

[Robbijay]

Back on topic.....

I've found the best way to disable S/S is to hardwire a dashcam with parking mode! It never activates until I've driven about 25 miles now! Quite annoying because i liked when i was the second car at a set of lights.

[Ads230]

3 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

Well when I am walking my inbuilt stop/start is always switched on

Scrolling through the last 8 pages, I think my default position for 99% of it was "Ignition off"... 😴😉

 

(Great topic though, enjoyed the GW/emissions #LolLaddishBantsEtc).

 

Not looking to disable S/S, but inbuilt into my muscle memory is ignition on, S/S off, then out of gear, engine on etc...    The only times I actively switch it back on is in motorway traffic / railway crossings / other more lengthy periods of inactivity. Just personal preference, and as I've got a manual it is less invasive, but I still want to choose when I have it on - rather than on by default.

[Bouncypete]

4 hours ago, benterrier said:

Sorry but recent postings have somewhat strayed off topic, as they do from time to time

This might have already been said within this thread but I'm not going to read all 8 pages just to check but......

 

If you have a car with adaptive cruise control, it will restart when the car in front pulls away without any other driver intervention.

 

This might be why some owners have more of an issue with it than others, like me, who have ACC.

 

Edited 7 June, 2019 by Bouncypete

[Bouncypete]

1 hour ago, Bouncypete said:

This might have already been said within this thread but I'm not going to read all 8 pages just to check but......

 

If you have a car with adaptive cruise control, it will restart when the car in front pulls away without any other driver intervention.

 

This might be why some owners have more of an issue with it than others, like me, who have ACC.

 

I forgot to say, you don't actually have to actually be using ACC for this to work, you just have it in standby.

[Bobclive2]

There are two systems working here which over time will cost considerably more than they save.  Stop/start, you don`t need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that 600,000 engine starts as against 60,000 will cause more engine wear, you read on net posts that manufacturers now treat bearings cylinder bores and piston rings etc with NEW low friction materials, what are these materials and do they actually exist, stop start does cause more engine wear.

Smart charging or regeneration, all lead acid batteries are basically the same whether flooded or sealed and all need to be fully charged on a regular basis to stop them from failing early, the smart system does not do that, as said previously the system will not allow the alternator to charge the battery from engine power if battery soc is above 75%. With this system active it relies on intermittent regeneration to get the battery to a fully charged state, will this happen, rarely in my view.

 

The only link I have found relating to any manufacturer explaining their system is Hyundai, other than this single statement below owners have no idea what this system is doing other than allowing the manufactures to keep within their emission limits, works well for battery manufactures.

 

Quote

This model has an engine ECU controlled alternator and this is designed only to operate in a way that reduces fuel consumption and emissions. So effectively it will actually do very little unless it really needs to, which means that until it detects an electrical load from things such as headlamps, HRW etc it will do the bare minimum to charge the battery up. If the customer is only doing those sorts of short journeys and not using any electrical items then the starting of the engine has taken charge out of the battery, but without any electrical items being used it won’t put that much back into the battery again. The Alternator Management System (smart charge) works in a very different way to a conventional alternator. The conventional alternator is charging at all times whenever the engine is running, and will increase its output back to the battery depending upon electrical load and the speed it is being rotated at. In the AMS system the charging function of the alternator is controlled electronically by the engine control ECU based upon various sensor inputs and how the vehicle is being driven, so it can be that the alternator will not be charging the battery at all dependent upon the circumstances at that time. Effectively as the alternator is controlled via the ECU it will only charge the battery when necessary, this is to reduce emissions and improve fuel economy. In certain conditions the system will only charge the battery in small amounts.
So if the vehicle is only used for short journeys, and as the system often does not charge at all after a cold start, if you are only doing low mileage the starting of the engine can take more charge out of the battery than the system will put back in again

 

http://www.talkhyundai.com/hyundaiforumuk/topic/26751-start-stop-isg-and-agm-brattery/

Edited 12 June, 2019 by Bobclive2

[maffyou]

Plenty of info out there, took me a couple of minutes to find this: https://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories/engine/polymer-coatings-engine-bearings-science-behind/

[maffyou]

7 hours ago, Bobclive2 said:

stop start does cause more engine wear.

 

7 hours ago, Bobclive2 said:

With this system active it relies on intermittent regeneration to get the battery to a fully charged state, will this happen, rarely in my view.

 

This one is even better. The guy clearly hates stop start systems yet fully acknowledges that they don’t cause significant extra wear or cause issues for the battery life. 

 

https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/the-truth-about-automatic-engine-stop-start-systems

[Bobclive2]

33 minutes ago, maffyou said:

Quote

With this system active it relies on intermittent regeneration to get the battery to a fully charged state, will this happen, rarely in my view.

 

This one is even better. The guy clearly hates stop start systems yet fully acknowledges that they don’t cause significant extra wear or cause issues for the battery life. 

 

https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/the-truth-about-automatic-engine-stop-start-systems

 

Perhaps you should get your information from the manufacturer instead of journalists, if these super low friction materials exist and are actually used in the manufacture of our engines, why should we implement stop start, surely by not using this stop/start tech we get 100% of the benefit from these new materials if they are actually in our engines. Now if your Vid shows no engine wear why does your first link state there is.

Regarding battery longevity, drivers here and elsewhere are complaining about stop/start not working because batteries are not being fully charged, stop/start and smart charging work together, did you read the Hyundai post.

 

You found your information in a couple of minutes, does it state that this tech is actually being used, if so what vehicle manufacturer is using it, that`s the information that`s hard to come by. Did you read the conclusions of your piece.

 

CONCLUSION

So there you have it: Auto stop-start technology. Clever technology, quite robust, but perversely arrogant and bull**** at the same time. And useless to you as a practical matter. Let’s not forget that. A perfect metaphor for many of the people I’ve met in the automotive industry right there.

And of course, complexity is the enemy of reliability. Because this crap is really not providing a tangible benefit to you, not only is it unrefined, but also it is therefore just something else to go horribly wrong, potentially, down the track.

There’s a pleasant thought.

Edited 12 June, 2019 by Bobclive2

[Ootohere]

Stop / Start is just wunderba, and how i miss it and 'autohold' when i do not have them, all that sitting with the foot on the brake, or into 'N' and hand brake on, 

it is just so last century.

[maffyou]

Ok, here goes...

 

15 minutes ago, Bobclive2 said:

Perhaps you should get your information from the manufacturer instead of journalists,

Well, you can't have it both ways. You said the information couldn't be found by the manufacturers, so I found it elsewhere. Since when do manufactureres ever go into great technical detail about engineering components anyway? 

 

15 minutes ago, Bobclive2 said:

if these super low friction materials exist and are actually used in the manufacture of our engines, why should we implement stop start, surely by not using this stop/start tech we get 100% of the benefit from these new materials if they are actually in our engines. Now if your Vid shows no engine wear why does your first link state there is.

Eh?  You do get 100% of the benefit, why would you not? Seems a bit like saying you don't get 100% of the benefit of the hinge on your door because you have to open it. Also, I don't post a link to a video? I posted two articles. I did also find some academic papers but thought they were probably a bit heavy going for some evening reading, but if you're desperate (and can't work Google on your own):  https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=engine+solid+lubrication&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

 

15 minutes ago, Bobclive2 said:

Regarding battery longevity, drivers here and elsewhere are complaining about stop/start not working because batteries are not being fully charged, stop/start and smart charging work together, did you read the Hyundai post.

That is correct, stop start has been designed to not kick in if the battery is not sufficiently charged. That's not a problem, or a fault, that's a deliberate design of the system.

 

Yes, I read the bit you quoted and had a brief scroll through the link to the forum. All seems pretty clear - Hyundai have designed their system in a particular way, whether that's good or not is basically irrelevant, it's not a fault, it's how their system was designed. Probably also doesn't help if the manufacturer is fitting sub-par batteries, but plenty do because over several hundred thousand cars it saves millions. Is it right? No, it's shoddy. Is it the fault of the stop start system? No. It would be like trying to run your toaster off of some AAs - it ain't gonna work properly but it ain't the toaster's fault.

 

15 minutes ago, Bobclive2 said:

You found your information in a couple of minutes, does it state that this tech is actually being used, if so what vehicle manufacturer is using it, that`s the information that`s hard to come by.

You want to know, have at it and try to find it yourself. As I said above, when have car manufacturers ever given great detail on their engineering processes/designs. Why would you want your competition to be able to just pinch your design/process/system that you have invested millions in creating. You're the one who doubts it exists/is implemented so you need to find evidence to support that - burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused.

 

15 minutes ago, Bobclive2 said:

Did you read the conclusions of your piece.

Yes - did you? I've highlighted a key word in red in this person's opinion (this part is not a fact, it's the author's opinion - also, I can underline and use bold too!)

 

I've also highlighted in blue the key bit that is a fact.

 

15 minutes ago, Bobclive2 said:

CONCLUSION

So there you have it: Auto stop-start technology. Clever technology, quite robust, but perversely arrogant and bull**** at the same time. And useless to you as a practical matter. Let’s not forget that. A perfect metaphor for many of the people I’ve met in the automotive industry right there.

And of course, complexity is the enemy of reliability. Because this crap is really not providing a tangible benefit to you, not only is it unrefined, but also it is therefore just something else to go horribly wrong, potentially, down the track.

There’s a pleasant thought.

 

Lastly, as for it being crap because it doesn't provide "a tangible benefit to you" I refer you to my post pages back about how this may well be true, but it is about the millions of tiny bits all adding up to a big bit. Pennies (or cents if you prefer) are worth naff all, but get 100 million of them and you're a millionaire.

[maffyou]

32 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

Stop / Start is just wunderba, and how i miss it and 'autohold' when i do not have them, all that sitting with the foot on the brake, or into 'N' and hand brake on, 

it is just so last century.

I read that as wonder bra, thought the thread had taken a very quick and unexpected change of direction 

[Bobclive2]

Quote

Lastly, as for it being crap because it doesn't provide "a tangible benefit to you" I refer you to my post pages back about how this may well be true, but it is about the millions of tiny bits all adding up to a big bit.

 

Think it through, if using this system gets through batteries in half the time, do those millions of extra batters produce themselves, where is the lead mined to produce those millions of new batteries and by whom, what is the environmental impact of where the lead is mined and the impact on the local population  around the mine, what is the environmental impact of shipping this extra lead across the world, is there an adverse environmental impact in manufacturing those extra batteries, is there an environmental impact regarding  shipping them to retail outlets, is there a cost of disposing of those extra millions of old batteries, as I have said with stop/start there is little or no benefit to the owner or to the environment which appears to be the basis of your post.

 

Simple is best, the less technology the less to go wrong, I also own a 2005 TT, it is standard petrol injection which produces less NOX than modern direct injection engines, car does around 33 MPG urban. it`s got heated seats, audio, heated rear screen, electric windows, manual gearbox, the only item to cause me a problem over the years is the temp sensor and the thermostat don`t agree, because of this I get a CEL. A CEL now means my TT fails the MOT, what do I do about it, do I replace the thermostat, NO, I plug in my trusty elm OBD2 bluetooth device and clear the fault code with my Torque pro APP. Does it now pass the MOT and emissions test YES.  

 

This is what too much technology does, it serves no purpose yet causes the consumer unwarranted expense, for me to fit a new thermostat means a journey to fetch it, a journey for the part to be delivered to the retailer, a new dipstick guide tube, liter of anti freeze and the thermostat both of which need manufacturing.  Stop start is the same, it has little or no benefit for the vehicle owner but will cause unwarranted expense when it goes wrong, If some like a useless piece of technology fitted to there car fine, not me, I will decide when and where I wont to stop and I certainly will not purchase a new battery just because the stop/start stops working. I also will not purchase a new battery because the system says I should, bit like manufactures  fitting sensors half way into the brake pads just to make the motorist believe their brakes are about to give up.

Edited 19 June, 2019 by Bobclive2

[maffyou]

1 hour ago, Bobclive2 said:

 

Think it through, if using this system gets through batteries in half the time,

My final words on this: they don’t and you have no evidence that they do, because there isn’t any. 

 

I’m choosing not to read or reply to the rest of the post. 

[Bobclive2]

 

Quote

 

  2 hours ago, Bobclive2 said:

 

Think it through, if using this system gets through batteries in half the time,

My final words on this: they don’t and you have no evidence that they do, because there isn’t any. 

 

I’m choosing not to read or reply to the rest of the post. 

 

Might be yours but not mine, you sound like a true environmentalist with NO valid arguments,.

This is from the horses mouth, just for you, by the way, I came on here hoping to help others who hated stop/start and hopefully obtain further information on the subject. 🙄

 AGM AFTERMARKET FALTERS AS DRIVERS DISABLE START-STOP FUNCTION

http://www.batteriesinternational.com/2017/08/10/agm-aftermarket-falters-as-drivers-disable-start-stop-function/ 

 

Edited 19 June, 2019 by Bobclive2

[maffyou]

Literally in the link you just posted:

 

“The AGM battery is a formidable piece of engineering that, unlike a traditional SLI battery, is designed with a high cyclic capacity and the ability to recharge extremely quickly. This is needed because, over their design life, which was projected to be around four years, they are expected to make 350,000 engine starts, compared with the 30,000 expected by an SLI battery in a non start-stop vehicle.”

 

So as I’ve said lord knows how many times but, once more with feeling: they are designed and built to last longer and cope with 10 times+ the number of restarts. 

 

And this is why I’m done, because you choose not to read, or to cherry pick, the information that you share yourself, never mind anyone else’s. 

 

I’m done. 

[MarkyG82]

I am not usually the one to poke the fire but the article also suggests that if you turn off the S/S function the battery will last longer than the standard SLI battery in a non-S/S car.  Given the ~5% gain in fuel economy and the cost of replacing a more expensive battery, it is down to the individual use case as to whether the system should be used or not.  That is why there is a button to give you the choice.

For reference, I have had mine disable for nearly a year in a car that is approaching 5 yrs old.  The battery has just recently started to turn over an extra 1 or 2 times when starting.  This would be extremely frustrating with the system enabled and supported the 4 year life suggested in this article.

 

I will end with a caveat that I believe there is a place for the system, but my dsg equipped diesel is not one of them.  YMMV.